Stephen Jones

I mean, with any designer, I mean, for example, with Jonathan, unless he was completely decisive and clear, there's no way he could handle the workload.

There's, you know, thousands of people who he has to direct.

And because of that, you have to be sure of yourself and sure of your power.

If you're a milliner, it's very different because you have to learn or maybe you are that way of being able to fit into really somebody else's story.

It's, you're contributing to it hugely, but I mean, for example, at Dior, it's Jonathan's name above the front door, not mine.

And I'm fine with that.

Always being the bridesmaid, never the bride.

But it's the way it should be.

And it's been my greatest privilege to work with the greatest design minds of our time.

I mean, it's been extraordinary how to dip into their minds.

It's a wonderful thing to sort of really be there with Vivian

and seen her passion and sort of tried to understand her and being with Ray and tried to understand her, even though, I mean, it's so funny.

I always think whenever, I mean, I don't really make hats for main collections now, but we sort of collaborate all the time on different projects.

I always thought that if ever I sketched or made something that she would like, I know automatically she would hate it.

Because she, I mean, she wanted the spice in the mixture, the thing which was unexpected, the thing that she didn't know about, the thing that she didn't want.

Yes.

And that's what made it work.

And I think she had complete faith in you, Bella.

And that's maybe the fact that you were useless is the reason why.

Because she didn't want somebody who was incredibly self-assured and was going to train her.