Stephen Macedo

Well, they were quite controversial because one of the things that the plans emphasize is that they would be costly, that keeping children out of school would lead to learning losses and other detriments to health and well-being, including mental well-being, from children being isolated.

Well, they were quite controversial because one of the things that the plans emphasize is that they would be costly, that keeping children out of school would lead to learning losses and other detriments to health and well-being, including mental well-being, from children being isolated.

Business closures, likewise, could have consequences in terms of human well-being for those who own businesses, who depend on that businesses for a livelihood, economic well-being. Loss can lead also to psychological loss and family conflicts and so on. Isolating human beings who are social creatures will have a whole series of knock-on effects that the pre-pandemic planning documents discuss.

Business closures, likewise, could have consequences in terms of human well-being for those who own businesses, who depend on that businesses for a livelihood, economic well-being. Loss can lead also to psychological loss and family conflicts and so on. Isolating human beings who are social creatures will have a whole series of knock-on effects that the pre-pandemic planning documents discuss.

And these matters had been studied, and they found that there was a lack of good evidence, an absence of certainty around the effectiveness of these measures.

And these matters had been studied, and they found that there was a lack of good evidence, an absence of certainty around the effectiveness of these measures.

Yes, especially reducing morbidity and mortality, that is to say serious illness and death.

Yes, especially reducing morbidity and mortality, that is to say serious illness and death.

Well, yeah, the World Health Organization was one study, but there was another one in 2019 by Johns Hopkins, which came to similarly skeptical conclusions about these various non-pharmaceutical interventions, school closures, mask wearing, and so on and so forth.

Well, yeah, the World Health Organization was one study, but there was another one in 2019 by Johns Hopkins, which came to similarly skeptical conclusions about these various non-pharmaceutical interventions, school closures, mask wearing, and so on and so forth.

Earlier, in 2011, the UK government did a pre-pandemic planning document and similarly argued that in times of modern transportation around the world, these non-pharmaceutical interventions could not be counted on to significantly slow the spread of a virus. And so I would say that that was the dominant view.

Earlier, in 2011, the UK government did a pre-pandemic planning document and similarly argued that in times of modern transportation around the world, these non-pharmaceutical interventions could not be counted on to significantly slow the spread of a virus. And so I would say that that was the dominant view.

There were, of course, mathematical modelers who were prominent in the George W. Bush administration. They were more optimistic, not based on huge amounts of data, but based on scientific modeling projections. They believed that these measures could work.

There were, of course, mathematical modelers who were prominent in the George W. Bush administration. They were more optimistic, not based on huge amounts of data, but based on scientific modeling projections. They believed that these measures could work.

Well, one factor was the fact that China locked down and the World Health Organization sent a team to China. And they issued a report after just spending a week there. And it was a fulsome endorsement of the Chinese approach. They said that China has shown the world the way to suppress a virus. Never been done before, but it's been done by China.

Well, one factor was the fact that China locked down and the World Health Organization sent a team to China. And they issued a report after just spending a week there. And it was a fulsome endorsement of the Chinese approach. They said that China has shown the world the way to suppress a virus. Never been done before, but it's been done by China.

And they endorsed the strategy without qualification for around the world.

And they endorsed the strategy without qualification for around the world.

Well, you're expressing some skepticism about the extent to which we should regard the Chinese approach as a model given the features of its system and their inconsistency with Western civil liberties, freedom of dissent, and so on. And that's a perfectly good question. None of that is evident in the World Health Organization report. They don't emphasize those sorts of things at all.

Well, you're expressing some skepticism about the extent to which we should regard the Chinese approach as a model given the features of its system and their inconsistency with Western civil liberties, freedom of dissent, and so on. And that's a perfectly good question. None of that is evident in the World Health Organization report. They don't emphasize those sorts of things at all.