Stephen Schneider

Well, so we look at it in terms of payback.

That's how we kind of think about it.

You know, I,

CAC and LTV, I've seen five different calculations and I've talked to multiple different investors on that.

And we tend to find that metric is confusing and requires an allocation of marketing spend and all that sort of stuff that is subjective.

So we look at it as how much do you spend in sales and marketing and how much ACV do we get and what's our kind of rate of return on that?

If I look on new ACV that we get versus how much we spend in sales and marketing, it's about a one-to-one ratio.

Yeah, there.

Yeah.

So it's a combination.

So we have an inside sales team that's doing outbound outreach, things along those lines.

We have a sales team that is doing, um,

That's what I'm looking for.

Outbound emails, webinars, all that sort of fun stuff as well.

So so we look at it, you know, I think.

It's challenging because you have to build in assumptions around expansion and upsell and things along those lines.

And the reality is our expansion and upsell has really taken off in the last year or two.

We started to introduce new modules and new capabilities, and that's given us an opportunity to go back to the customer base and add additional value.

And so we're getting more of that.

So truthfully, we probably do need to go back and reassess our metrics and how we look at that.