Stephen Schneider

And so in perpetual, you're not necessarily getting that full recurring revenue, right?

You're only gonna get a percent of it.

So when I talk to you about a typical ASP today, those are new business deals that we're doing, not deals that we did 10 years ago for 10,000, 15,000, whatever.

Sure, it's about a thousand.

So again, keep in mind, a lot of the people that we brought on in prior years brought in as perpetual.

So when you sell a $100,000 deal in perpetual, you get a $20,000 maintenance stream.

I see what you're saying.

The fact doesn't work that way, it's just a story.

I mean, if I could tell you right now, if I was to look at our average ASP last quarter, it was about $90,000.

All right.

But much of our customer base came in on a perpetual license model.

And so many of those are on a maintenance stream type model.

That's exactly right.

That's right.

support basically, call and log support tickets, that kind of thing.

That's exactly right.

So we measure churn in three ways.

So first off, we measure churn as a percent of our total ARR base on both a number of customers as well as a dollar basis.

We measure churn on a net renewal rate, so including upsell.

And then we measure churn or renewal rate on a standard renewal rate in terms of those up for renewal in a given year.