Steve Ballmer

The personal computing layer. I think by the mid to late 80s, I mean, you make it sound very strong. No, we didn't feel very strong. Yeah. There was IBM, man. IBM was still the sun, the moon, and the stars. That didn't change. I would say we didn't drop that theory well into the 2000s. Into the 2000s, Lotus Notes was coming for us, and that was mid-'90s and beyond.

But maybe you could say late, but we weren't an enterprise company. If you looked at the enterprise, the enterprise was still- IBM. IBM. We used to say we had to hang on to IBM that if we ever let go, they might trample us. We called them the bear. Called this riding the bear. You had to stay on. Then, of course, graphical user interface. It's-

But maybe you could say late, but we weren't an enterprise company. If you looked at the enterprise, the enterprise was still- IBM. IBM. We used to say we had to hang on to IBM that if we ever let go, they might trample us. We called them the bear. Called this riding the bear. You had to stay on. Then, of course, graphical user interface. It's-

kind of coming out of Xerox PARC at the time, and Apple's doing their thing, and we start... That's another disruption. Could blow everything up. So I would say no sense of confidence about controlling the ecosystem well into the 90s before, I think, any of that.

kind of coming out of Xerox PARC at the time, and Apple's doing their thing, and we start... That's another disruption. Could blow everything up. So I would say no sense of confidence about controlling the ecosystem well into the 90s before, I think, any of that.

So we've been staying with IBM. They decided they wanted to build something that was sort of their operating system and sort of not. This is 8283. We and they would collectively build part of it. We would be able to license it to others. They would build a value add layer that was a database and a 3270 emulator. Crazy to say now.

So we've been staying with IBM. They decided they wanted to build something that was sort of their operating system and sort of not. This is 8283. We and they would collectively build part of it. We would be able to license it to others. They would build a value add layer that was a database and a 3270 emulator. Crazy to say now.

We were going to work on the operating system and what was called presentation manager, call that the graphical user interface. And they were going to have rights equivalent to ownership in the code we wrote. This sounds so convoluted. It was so convoluted.

We were going to work on the operating system and what was called presentation manager, call that the graphical user interface. And they were going to have rights equivalent to ownership in the code we wrote. This sounds so convoluted. It was so convoluted.

Man, there was a time when I made 16 trips to the East Coast in 16 weeks, most of them to South Florida, a couple of them to New York, leave California.

Man, there was a time when I made 16 trips to the East Coast in 16 weeks, most of them to South Florida, a couple of them to New York, leave California.

On the red-eye, the Delta Dash flight at around 11, get into Atlanta around 5, get the flight to West Palm Beach at about 7, get in and be able to be at a meeting at 9 o'clock at IBM, and then work all day, catch the 7 o'clock flight home, be here about 10, 30, or 11. 24 hours. Down and back. Because if you're building something together, remember, there's no real email at the time. Right.

On the red-eye, the Delta Dash flight at around 11, get into Atlanta around 5, get the flight to West Palm Beach at about 7, get in and be able to be at a meeting at 9 o'clock at IBM, and then work all day, catch the 7 o'clock flight home, be here about 10, 30, or 11. 24 hours. Down and back. Because if you're building something together, remember, there's no real email at the time. Right.

We were literally shipping disks back and forth. And then they decided they were going to do the presentation manager piece in England. So there were also then a lot of flights to England. Oh, my God. And then Texas is where the database and communication subs- This sounds so IBM. This sounds like Boeing. Yeah, we call it, it was the joint development agreement.

We were literally shipping disks back and forth. And then they decided they were going to do the presentation manager piece in England. So there were also then a lot of flights to England. Oh, my God. And then Texas is where the database and communication subs- This sounds so IBM. This sounds like Boeing. Yeah, we call it, it was the joint development agreement.

And it was the price of staying involved with IBM. And it was convoluted. And we did then keep, for speed of action, we kept going on Windows, which we had started. For listeners, everything we're talking about is OS2. OS2. This operating system that basically never comes to me. OS2 and there was OS2 Extended Edition or something, which had their edition stuff.

And it was the price of staying involved with IBM. And it was convoluted. And we did then keep, for speed of action, we kept going on Windows, which we had started. For listeners, everything we're talking about is OS2. OS2. This operating system that basically never comes to me. OS2 and there was OS2 Extended Edition or something, which had their edition stuff.

And Windows was like your plan B. It was like your side. No, Windows was our plan. And then they wanted to do this new operating system. And we convinced them, you got to have a graphical user interface. And we tried to sell them Windows, and they were resisting.

And Windows was like your plan B. It was like your side. No, Windows was our plan. And then they wanted to do this new operating system. And we convinced them, you got to have a graphical user interface. And we tried to sell them Windows, and they were resisting.

Humor. It's more than lip service. I would say... My job was managing by then system software. So I had Windows. I had Shipwind. I'd been the development manager for Windows 1.0.