Steve Killelea

with these concepts to see how they play out in real life.

And so that's all in the book.

Yeah, well, I think there's a real issue, I think, coming up, and it's just not Australia, it's globally.

And Australia, in many ways, is in a much, much better position than many other countries.

So it's unlikely that the current economic downturn is really going to finish any time in the next couple of years.

It will take a number of years to get back to the GDP levels of 2019.

So I think we're going to have depressed economic conditions for some time.

So it's really important of how now societies focus on concepts of equity as we move forward.

So one of the more troubling trends is if we look in the decade to the end of 2019, the number of demonstrations and riots globally went up 240 percent.

That's a lot.

So that is an indication of dissatisfaction within societies.

So now, as we move to the back end of the COVID-19 and we get more deeper into the downturn in the economies, and without a bounce back, concepts of equity are going to become really important.

So if there's major erosions, let's say in wages...

and working conditions, that's likely to come back and have some really profoundly negative effects on societies in the longer term, particularly seeing we live in societies which are consumption-based.

So if you haven't got the average workers' wages increasing, then you haven't got an increase

really in consumption the only way you can do it was with debt and there's got to be limits on debt at some point and we've been building those limits up now for the last 15 years 20 years so what i see is that there needs to be real focus on this concept of equity as we move forward rather

than a concept of competitiveness so that the costs and inputs into businesses fall.

I think there's a lot of things.

I think society generally isn't focusing enough on sustainability.

A lot of this comes back to, let's say, you can't blame the politicians because they're all on three or four year cycles.