Steven Zuber

But many people, you know, if you did find animals to hunt or whatever, you probably...

I shouldn't say you probably.

I would still describe it as morally wrong to torture them to death because you're bored.

You find other ways to entertain yourself that don't involve suffering, even if you're not concerned about hurting other people.

You could say you're social with the animals, but that's not really it.

In a way, even in isolation, you're still social with other humans, but there's still something connected to that.

but I think distinct that, you know, you could be alone by yourself and say, no, it would be wrong to do that.

Well, for my take, that's why I think it's kind of the same thing.

You're in a social environment even if you're alone because our ancestors were social environmental animals.

Andrew, break the tie here.

I think the answer to that is yes and no.

I mean, I think there's an important difference between the kind of thing that we're talking about where...

You imagine a huge evolutionary pressure to have and obey this inner voice that gives quick commands like duck, move, run, danger, you know, get away.

Whereas like the bird out there screaming, I want to have sex is not the same kind of urgent cry.

But I was trying to think of...

whether or not animals have that kind of aversion of the superego and i always think of like dogs if you've got a well-trained dog and it accidentally pees on the carpet or something it appears visibly embarrassed oh yeah and it like it not i not even i think necessarily because it's going to be punished it's just like i know i'm really sorry you know like so it seems to or if you've ever seen an animal or especially a dog try to you know eyeballing your food

And it's like, I wonder if I could grab that before he notices.

There's deliberation happening there, right?

And I don't know if it's weighing the pros and cons of how delicious your sandwich looks versus how upset you'll be if he eats it or something.

But there's definitely cogs turning in there.