Steven

And going through that experience in those early years and then going through everything that happened thereafter, there doesn't appear to be any bitterness. There doesn't appear to be any chip on the shoulder, any anger.

What would they say back?

What would they say back?

Being underestimated. It's a word that I saw throughout your book and it's a word you mentioned a second ago. You knew you were going into an underestimated world, if I can call it that, a world that was going to underestimate you because of your race and things like that. But it's so clear to me that you had your shoulders back regardless. And I spoke to Valerie.

Being underestimated. It's a word that I saw throughout your book and it's a word you mentioned a second ago. You knew you were going into an underestimated world, if I can call it that, a world that was going to underestimate you because of your race and things like that. But it's so clear to me that you had your shoulders back regardless. And I spoke to Valerie.

Of course you know Valerie. You've worked with Valerie for many decades. She was sort of an early mental figure in your life, Michelle. Yes, she was. And she actually wrote me a letter about you. She describes that...

Of course you know Valerie. You've worked with Valerie for many decades. She was sort of an early mental figure in your life, Michelle. Yes, she was. And she actually wrote me a letter about you. She describes that...

She's never met someone in her life that was so clear on what they wanted to achieve in the world in terms of the social good and the impact they wanted to have, but was so unbelievably confident and high conviction. And when I think about when you went to Harvard and studied law, there was what 30% of the people attending were women and then a tinier percentage were black women.

She's never met someone in her life that was so clear on what they wanted to achieve in the world in terms of the social good and the impact they wanted to have, but was so unbelievably confident and high conviction. And when I think about when you went to Harvard and studied law, there was what 30% of the people attending were women and then a tinier percentage were black women.

And you were aware again of being underestimated, but again, shoulders back, it seemed. Where does that come from in you?

And you were aware again of being underestimated, but again, shoulders back, it seemed. Where does that come from in you?

What's the scam?

What's the scam?

The journey you've both been on is really, really remarkable for so many reasons, but it's also remarkable for the pivots along the way. And I was reading about a bit of an identity crisis that you had when you were 27, 28 years old, Michelle, when you were a lawyer.

The journey you've both been on is really, really remarkable for so many reasons, but it's also remarkable for the pivots along the way. And I was reading about a bit of an identity crisis that you had when you were 27, 28 years old, Michelle, when you were a lawyer.

At Sidley and Austin.

At Sidley and Austin.

Craig, when was the first time you heard that your little sister had met a guy called Mr. Obama?

Craig, when was the first time you heard that your little sister had met a guy called Mr. Obama?

And what did you think of him, honestly?