Steven

And as I was reading, I was thinking, gosh, what did their parents do to orientate them in such a clear way? Where at key moments in both of your careers, you make decisions not to get a pay rise or not to go for the thing that is higher status and to do something else, either something that's aligned with your passions and hobbies or something that's in service of others.

So what were those values and how did your parents instill those in you?

So what were those values and how did your parents instill those in you?

Never took a sick day.

Never took a sick day.

Mm-hmm. It's a tool in the toolbox that you sometimes don't even realize is there if you're privileged enough to. Right. Because it's that tectonic plate that sits underneath you that you never can really see, but gives you a certain sense of, I guess, risk and go get it.

Mm-hmm. It's a tool in the toolbox that you sometimes don't even realize is there if you're privileged enough to. Right. Because it's that tectonic plate that sits underneath you that you never can really see, but gives you a certain sense of, I guess, risk and go get it.

Does that teach you to respond to others who cry for that help?

Does that teach you to respond to others who cry for that help?

Race. One of the startling things with these two photos, mainly because I think it's this way around, but this is, I believe, what, second grade or something? That was first grade. First grade, and then this is seventh or eighth?

Race. One of the startling things with these two photos, mainly because I think it's this way around, but this is, I believe, what, second grade or something? That was first grade. First grade, and then this is seventh or eighth?

There's a lot less white people in the second photo, which means that, which assumes that white people started leaving your school. Oh, absolutely.

There's a lot less white people in the second photo, which means that, which assumes that white people started leaving your school. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. My question really is about what role did race play in your childhood? Because I think about my own childhood and it's quite a prominent persuasive force in who I became and what I thought about the world and really what I thought about myself. So race is an issue as young people in Chicago. What role did it play?

Yeah. My question really is about what role did race play in your childhood? Because I think about my own childhood and it's quite a prominent persuasive force in who I became and what I thought about the world and really what I thought about myself. So race is an issue as young people in Chicago. What role did it play?

Yeah, yeah. For anyone that doesn't have context on white flight, what is white flight?

Yeah, yeah. For anyone that doesn't have context on white flight, what is white flight?

How do you stop it getting to you? One of the remarkable things I noticed, even when we spent some time together yesterday, was... There is no apparent bitterness. And there's, one would say that there's reason to be, because when you're so powerful and so prominent and so well-known, you're exposed to everything.

How do you stop it getting to you? One of the remarkable things I noticed, even when we spent some time together yesterday, was... There is no apparent bitterness. And there's, one would say that there's reason to be, because when you're so powerful and so prominent and so well-known, you're exposed to everything.

And going through that experience in those early years and then going through everything that happened thereafter, there doesn't appear to be any bitterness. There doesn't appear to be any chip on the shoulder, any anger.