Susan Desmond-Hellmann

Yeah, Bob Gallo was one of the, Luke Monnier was, you know, they had a fight over who deserved the credit. But yeah, we knew about HIV then. And we knew the biology. And we knew as soon as we got to Uganda and examined patients that this was heterosexual transmission of HIV. And we knew that untreated STDs were a big reason. And that was a very important thing.

Yeah, Bob Gallo was one of the, Luke Monnier was, you know, they had a fight over who deserved the credit. But yeah, we knew about HIV then. And we knew the biology. And we knew as soon as we got to Uganda and examined patients that this was heterosexual transmission of HIV. And we knew that untreated STDs were a big reason. And that was a very important thing.

It wouldn't be that high, no. So one of the really important aspects of STDs is high frequency of herpes and chancroid, really open lesions that are very, very, if not treated.

It wouldn't be that high, no. So one of the really important aspects of STDs is high frequency of herpes and chancroid, really open lesions that are very, very, if not treated.

High viral load and transmissible. Yes, yes. So we knew all of that. Now, we also knew that some of these were treatable, that both medication, also Museveni, the still leader of Uganda, had this very funny campaign called Zero Grazing. So they raised a lot of cows, and this is very important in Uganda is having a herd of cows. It means you're an important man, you know.

High viral load and transmissible. Yes, yes. So we knew all of that. Now, we also knew that some of these were treatable, that both medication, also Museveni, the still leader of Uganda, had this very funny campaign called Zero Grazing. So they raised a lot of cows, and this is very important in Uganda is having a herd of cows. It means you're an important man, you know.

Museveni always wears this hat like he's raising cows. So Zero Grazing, the farmers and many people knew what that meant. One wife, one partner, no grazing. And so there was a pretty good public campaign. We did a lot of condom distribution.

Museveni always wears this hat like he's raising cows. So Zero Grazing, the farmers and many people knew what that meant. One wife, one partner, no grazing. And so there was a pretty good public campaign. We did a lot of condom distribution.

They were very on board. They also knew that this was going to be a geopolitical problem for them if people were dying in the prime of their lives at the rates they were. They got that. This was really clear to them.

They were very on board. They also knew that this was going to be a geopolitical problem for them if people were dying in the prime of their lives at the rates they were. They got that. This was really clear to them.

In East Africa, there was quite a bit. There was a lot of HIV in Kenya, and there were programs like the one that we had in Kenya, Tanzania. There were others where it was more unknown, I think not talked about. I mean, the program I know about... most today is the program my husband's been working with for 15 years, which is Elizabeth Glazer Pediatric AIDS Foundation.

In East Africa, there was quite a bit. There was a lot of HIV in Kenya, and there were programs like the one that we had in Kenya, Tanzania. There were others where it was more unknown, I think not talked about. I mean, the program I know about... most today is the program my husband's been working with for 15 years, which is Elizabeth Glazer Pediatric AIDS Foundation.

They work now, I think, in 12 countries in sub-Saharan Africa, and many of the southernmost countries are heavily affected by HIV still.

They work now, I think, in 12 countries in sub-Saharan Africa, and many of the southernmost countries are heavily affected by HIV still.

Oh, no, I can't estimate it.

Oh, no, I can't estimate it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If there's 16 million people, it wouldn't have surprised me if there were a million people who died. I mean, it's that kind of numbers. I'm probably exaggerating, but not by much. And I think the sense of feeling overwhelmed is just really important. What I realized I was doing, I don't know if you've interacted with people in the military much, but if they were on the battlefield, they triage.

If there's 16 million people, it wouldn't have surprised me if there were a million people who died. I mean, it's that kind of numbers. I'm probably exaggerating, but not by much. And I think the sense of feeling overwhelmed is just really important. What I realized I was doing, I don't know if you've interacted with people in the military much, but if they were on the battlefield, they triage.