Susan Glasser

Well, that's right. The vice president. That was actually for corruption of a very old-fashioned, you know, Menendez-like crime. He was literally getting bags of cash predating his time in the federal government as vice president.

Well, that's right. The vice president. That was actually for corruption of a very old-fashioned, you know, Menendez-like crime. He was literally getting bags of cash predating his time in the federal government as vice president.

That's right. Richard Nixon was seeking to weaponize the IRS against his political opponents. I mean, there was a whole array of abuses of power that will be very familiar to anybody who spent any time reading Eric's terrific coverage in the New York Times about the Trump family and its essential use of the inner – basically the –

That's right. Richard Nixon was seeking to weaponize the IRS against his political opponents. I mean, there was a whole array of abuses of power that will be very familiar to anybody who spent any time reading Eric's terrific coverage in the New York Times about the Trump family and its essential use of the inner – basically the –

unclear barriers between their personal financial interests, their personal political interests, and use of official government agencies and actions to benefit themselves in a whole host of ways, both personally, financially, and politically. That's what Donald Trump's 2019 impeachment was over, was essentially seeking to take hundreds of millions of dollars in

unclear barriers between their personal financial interests, their personal political interests, and use of official government agencies and actions to benefit themselves in a whole host of ways, both personally, financially, and politically. That's what Donald Trump's 2019 impeachment was over, was essentially seeking to take hundreds of millions of dollars in

military and security assistance that the United States Congress had authorized Ukraine and to say, I'm not going to give that to you unless you undertake this personal political errand for me of investigating my political opponents. So this is Donald Trump's playbook, his MO, and the scale and scope of it is, frankly, Richard Nixon's fever dream.

military and security assistance that the United States Congress had authorized Ukraine and to say, I'm not going to give that to you unless you undertake this personal political errand for me of investigating my political opponents. So this is Donald Trump's playbook, his MO, and the scale and scope of it is, frankly, Richard Nixon's fever dream.

I mean, the level of not only the dollar signs, but across such a wide array of fronts. And The fact that Trump sort of does it almost in front of us, flaunting us, has served in a bizarre way to insulate him. But you're right, John, I think to underscore that Trump is the beneficiary of this erosion over time phenomenon. of these laws and institutions.

I mean, the level of not only the dollar signs, but across such a wide array of fronts. And The fact that Trump sort of does it almost in front of us, flaunting us, has served in a bizarre way to insulate him. But you're right, John, I think to underscore that Trump is the beneficiary of this erosion over time phenomenon. of these laws and institutions.

And by the way, one of the most important of the post-Watergate reforms was a level of campaign finance limits, disclosure. There was even a system of public financing that had previously collapsed for our presidential general election nominees. And the Supreme Court essentially dealt the final blow to those post-Watergate campaign finance rules in its Citizens United thing.

And by the way, one of the most important of the post-Watergate reforms was a level of campaign finance limits, disclosure. There was even a system of public financing that had previously collapsed for our presidential general election nominees. And the Supreme Court essentially dealt the final blow to those post-Watergate campaign finance rules in its Citizens United thing.

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

And actually, last year when I went back and did a big piece for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican fundraising in this post-Citizens United era and looking at basically the final co-opting of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign,

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The amount of money that was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning sign for democracy. And of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed to spend at a minimum around $300 million essentially to promote Trump and other Republican candidates and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing.

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The red lines were crossed before people even understood that they were red lines. And now we're living in a world where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone. Most of the accountability that had been built in our system is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times are doing this great reporting,

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized

The public is, even those people who don't like Trump, I fear is supine, is overwhelmed, is unable to meaningfully process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And actually, what I'm worried about, I don't know if both of you think this as well, what I'm worried about right now is that we're actually seeing corruption being institutionalized