Susan Hayes-Cullerton

Switzerland leads at a relatively low 65%.

What is it about the market conditions that can lead to such a difference in a specific country?

Right, Kevin, if we take that on board and think about the success and failure definitions there and the opportunity costs, I do want to think back to what I had said I wanted to ask you about, which is, as you say, the name of your business is Nostra, which is looking into the future.

There's a big risk with being a first mover, which is that

Number one, it can be costly financially and otherwise to go into an area that other people haven't explored because you have to learn it all and that can be expensive.

But the second thing is there may not be a market.

There might be a gap in the market, but not a market in the gap.

So how do you look at those success and failure potentials and make sure that you don't suffer from, as Emma says, their irrational decision making as you do?

Do you have to go back further, Kevin, and highlight that they have a problem in the first place that is seeking said solution?

And now that you're expanding more so into the UK and further afield, has the risk changed then?

Because while the prize might be bigger, you have to deepen the foundation along the way to do it.

We learned a lot about you in that answer, actually, Kevin, and I'll remember that when the time comes.

All going well, it'll be a very long time away.

Bernie, it annoys me immensely when I hear people talk about startup failure without realising that, you know, being a founder is also a job.

Like, I've had a business for 15 years, continue to do so, for many of the reasons that Kevin mentioned there, actually.

And if I decided that I just didn't want to do the job anymore and let's say work for a big company, that would be called business failure.

But if I was an accountant and retrained to become an engineer, that would be called job mobility.

Like why are labels put on entrepreneurs like this that can really, you know, nuance the figures then that Emma discussed earlier on?

On that note, you also mentioned as well, Bernie, earlier on, you said that most of the reasons that business fail are avoidable.

From your own experience, what do you think one should really take away from that?