Susan Hayes Culleton

You said, my independence of mind, good judgment,

Stomach for uncertainty, ability to build sustainable structures in creative chaos and calmness under duress were all qualities boardrooms would appreciate and value.

I'd say there isn't a boardroom, any room in the world today Shefali that wouldn't value that.

So do you think are people missing out then by not pursuing this because that collection of expertise and in your own case in just one person really I would imagine would embed a sense of resilience in a business?

And I found you had an interesting perspective on one area that I think a lot of people feel and maybe it's just me that it just slows things down.

You say governance is a contact sport.

Can you talk to us about that?

Because typically governance sounds like, you know, putting up walls when we don't need them for the day that we do.

And yes, we all know it's a good idea to do them, but we kind of don't want to do it now.

So governance is a contact sport.

What does that mean?

I was watching the Kevin Warsh testimony this week in the US and he made the point that he likes clean memos and messy meetings.

Is that what you mean?

I thought that's just the type of meeting I like to be in as well.

You mentioned something earlier that I want to pick up on.

You were talking about how board members, as they're being brought on to these organisations, that they're now being sought at at a younger age.

There is a connotation

that one must have wide, varied and deep expertise and experience before putting themselves forward.

But this is a quote I took from, it was round about 20% of the way in of the book.

You said,