Susanna

And there's a lot of talk.

around what caused it.

So they had an internal review at the end of this year, the kind of with players, with coaches, with people higher up.

And then at the end of that review, they kind of spoke to him and it was came out that the All Blacks weren't moving in the direction they wanted to and

You can't really say sacking because it's unclear if they sacked him or if he stepped away.

It's kind of neither.

Yeah, but they went to lengths to say that...

oh, it wasn't a player revolt.

It had nothing to do with the players, even though the likes of Artie Savea, their co-captain, had said that he might be staying in Japan or he might be coming to Europe, so he wouldn't be eligible for the All Blacks.

And the whole thing coming out of it is that they definitely weren't happy.

But then they're going to lengths to say that, no, it absolutely wasn't the players.

And a lot of people are calling bullshit on this.

But I think it is a sense of...

protecting the players, but also not wanting to admit that maybe the players have more power than we would like them to?

There's a lot of parallels with Xabi Alonso at Real Madrid, where you have players who will be there before and after a manager is there, who are so powerful and so well-respected and talented in their own fields that they can influence the higher-ups and they can influence the managerial decisions.

But it's so alien to see it in rugby.

You're very cynical watching football and seeing the cycle of managers.

You'd nearly expect it.

Xabi Alonso, similar thing.

Was he sacked?