Tanya Mosley

When she first began teaching a nutrition course in the early 70s, she says it felt like she was falling in love with the subject.

She went on to serve as Associate Dean for Human Biology at the University of California, San Francisco, and as Staff Director for Nutrition Policy at the Department of Health and Human Services, where she helped shape dietary guidelines for Americans in the 1990s.

Nessel is the author of 15 books, including Safe Food, The Politics of Food Safety, and Soda Politics.

We recorded this conversation last week as courts in Congress were battling over SNAP benefits for more than 42 million Americans during the government shutdown.

And Mary and Nessel, welcome to Fresh Air.

Oh, glad to be here.

Well, Marion, before we dive in, I want to talk to you a little bit about what's happening with SNAP benefits.

Food banks are already reporting that they have been inundated with people in need of food.

I want to know what you're thinking about in this moment, what this moment reveals, maybe about how fragile our food system here in the U.S.

is right now.

You know, when you first began your journey in nutrition, I heard you say that people actually questioned whether

food and politics went together, that like food is not political.

People were really surprised by that.

You went on then to talk about how in America, we don't have a problem with a lack of food.

It's about poverty.

It's about policy.

How are you seeing these forces play out right now in the way the government is approaching nutrition assistance?

is at the HHS talking about toxins and ultra-processed foods.

Many of the issues that you also talk about, too, you guys seem to be aligned on many things.

Do you see a genuine opening here for food policy reform?