Terry Gross

And that's because of the period.

I mean, outside of Show Boats, so many of those shows were basically girl meets boy with some funny songs, some novelty songs, and some ballads.

And the songs were often great, but the stories weren't necessarily memorable.

Right.

So Ethan Hawke is a lot taller than Larry Hart was.

What tricks did you use to get him to look like he's not quite five feet?

You could have cast somebody else who was shorter.

Why was it so important to cast Ethan Hawke?

I know you didn't write the screenplay, but did you do a lot of research to try to figure out what Hart was really thinking on the opening night of Oklahoma?

And if he talked as much and was so as self-pitying as he is in the film?

A Ship Without a Sail, I'll recite a part of the lyric, and I might be conflating lines from several stanzas, but here's the approximate.

All alone and all at sea, still nobody cares for me.

When there's no hand to hold your hand, life is an endless tale like a ship without a sail.

Yeah.

Or something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

And lonely, apparently.

Exactly.

That's what I was going to say.

It's like time for me to get to go to the bar.