Terry Gross

How is this playing out in the courts?

What does it mean for the First and Fourth Amendment rights of Americans to peacefully protest and express their opinions, and for our democracy?

I have two guests who have been looking at these issues.

Emmanuel Malion is a professor at the University of Minnesota Law School.

He lives in the Twin Cities.

He writes about the roles that police and other state security actors play in producing social,

political and legal regimes of domination and subordination.

He's a former fellow at the Brennan Center for Justice, where he focused on white nationalist domestic terrorism, hate crime policy, and police access to surveillance technology and military weapons.

Elizabeth Goytin is Senior Director of Liberty and National Security at the Brennan Center for Justice.

She is an expert on presidential emergency powers, government surveillance, and government secrecy.

She's testified before Senate and House Judiciary Committees several times.

We recorded our interview yesterday morning before it was confirmed that subpoenas were issued to Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, the state's Attorney General Keith Ellison, as well as the mayor of St.

Paul and the Hennepin County attorney.

The subpoenas are reportedly part of a Justice Department probe into whether state officials were conspiring to impede federal immigration law enforcement operations.

Elizabeth Goytin, Emmanuel Malion, welcome to Fresh Air.

I want to start with an overview, asking each of you to just like run through a list of some of the things that President Trump and his administration are doing that you find most confounding or legally out of bounds.

So let's start with ICE and what's happening in Minnesota.

And Emmanuel, I'm going to ask you, you were born in Mexico.

And I am wondering if you've been stopped by ICE and if anyone in your family has come in direct contact with ICE.

When were you threatened with deportation?