Tilda Swinton (as Martha)

in relation to the other two experiences?

I'm really pleased to hear that. I mean, I think the reason I ask the question is that I'm thinking of what you just said, which is such a particular experience that you had to come to a piece of art, having been through the real lived experience with your mother. which is particularly piquant, can we say.

I'm really pleased to hear that. I mean, I think the reason I ask the question is that I'm thinking of what you just said, which is such a particular experience that you had to come to a piece of art, having been through the real lived experience with your mother. which is particularly piquant, can we say.

So there's that, which we can unpack in a minute if we want to, or maybe another time when we speak.

So there's that, which we can unpack in a minute if we want to, or maybe another time when we speak.

Well, you know what? Here's the thing, David. You know, moving on is, I think, in many ways, grossly overrated.

Well, you know what? Here's the thing, David. You know, moving on is, I think, in many ways, grossly overrated.

Yes, it's an enormous part of what I want to talk to you about because it is the reason that this film is so important to me. I have spent much of the last 15 years in the Ingrid position, naming the person that Julianne Moore plays, and it's felt like that on almost all occasions. to both of my parents, to the father of my children, and many other friends.

Yes, it's an enormous part of what I want to talk to you about because it is the reason that this film is so important to me. I have spent much of the last 15 years in the Ingrid position, naming the person that Julianne Moore plays, and it's felt like that on almost all occasions. to both of my parents, to the father of my children, and many other friends.

But it's also something that has been in my lived experience since I was quite a young person. I mean, my first Martha was Derek Jarman. Derek Jarman, when I was 33, died. He was the first person who I knew very closely and lived alongside very, very tightly.

But it's also something that has been in my lived experience since I was quite a young person. I mean, my first Martha was Derek Jarman. Derek Jarman, when I was 33, died. He was the first person who I knew very closely and lived alongside very, very tightly.

who got very ill, first of all, with HIV in 1988, 1989, and then died in 94 after those years that we, for those of us who had that second-hand experience, that witness experience, know was a pretty tortuous journey. He was the first person that I met who was looking down the barrel and did not look away.

who got very ill, first of all, with HIV in 1988, 1989, and then died in 94 after those years that we, for those of us who had that second-hand experience, that witness experience, know was a pretty tortuous journey. He was the first person that I met who was looking down the barrel and did not look away.

And I was very much in the Ingrid position, the person that Julianne Moore plays, is really frightened. I was that person. I knew that life, mortal life, comes to an end. But I always feel that immortality and mortality are basically the same thing. But what Derek modeled for me was something that has really influenced my perspective on the whole thing.

And I was very much in the Ingrid position, the person that Julianne Moore plays, is really frightened. I was that person. I knew that life, mortal life, comes to an end. But I always feel that immortality and mortality are basically the same thing. But what Derek modeled for me was something that has really influenced my perspective on the whole thing.

charade, if you like, his absolute refusal to look away, there was a sort of exhilaration for him to have the limit of his life made clear to him. He was almost gleeful, and he just... drove into the curve and he became sort of enlivened by it.

charade, if you like, his absolute refusal to look away, there was a sort of exhilaration for him to have the limit of his life made clear to him. He was almost gleeful, and he just... drove into the curve and he became sort of enlivened by it.

And I would say that the last few years of his life, notwithstanding the illness and the pain and suffering that he went through on a physical level, was, you know, I think he said were some of the most joyful years of his life. And I felt what I witnessed was someone who just... made his dying alive. It was entirely lived. And his death was not interesting. What do you mean?

And I would say that the last few years of his life, notwithstanding the illness and the pain and suffering that he went through on a physical level, was, you know, I think he said were some of the most joyful years of his life. And I felt what I witnessed was someone who just... made his dying alive. It was entirely lived. And his death was not interesting. What do you mean?

There's nothing interesting about death. We just stop. For me personally, death itself is not the star of the show. The dying is the interesting bit. And how do we die?