Tilda Swinton (as Martha)

The living is the most important thing and in many ways the only thing. And I don't necessarily want to designate one thing as political activism and another thing as artistic practice and another thing as living your life. I mean, for me, there ain't no walls between any of them.

But also, when I met Derek Jarman and the people with whom I worked in the first years of my life as a practicing artist, I wouldn't say I was taught any of this, but I was encouraged in this view and this perspective. and this investment, because I would say that they felt the same. The people that I first started working as an artist with, the life and the living of it was everything.

But also, when I met Derek Jarman and the people with whom I worked in the first years of my life as a practicing artist, I wouldn't say I was taught any of this, but I was encouraged in this view and this perspective. and this investment, because I would say that they felt the same. The people that I first started working as an artist with, the life and the living of it was everything.

So when we were working together, and I worked with Derek Jarman for, what, nine years before he died? The thing was that the films, I always say that the life and the conversation was the tree and the films were like leaves. They just came out of the end of the branches. They grew out of the conversation and the conversation grew out of the life we were living.

So when we were working together, and I worked with Derek Jarman for, what, nine years before he died? The thing was that the films, I always say that the life and the conversation was the tree and the films were like leaves. They just came out of the end of the branches. They grew out of the conversation and the conversation grew out of the life we were living.

I remember Derek coming to me and I'm unapologetically talking about Derek a lot because he's the root of all of this for me and my experience with him. I remember him. He always used to go on Sundays. We used to go to Camden Market to shop in the bric-a-brac. And I remember I met him for lunch one day after.

I remember Derek coming to me and I'm unapologetically talking about Derek a lot because he's the root of all of this for me and my experience with him. I remember him. He always used to go on Sundays. We used to go to Camden Market to shop in the bric-a-brac. And I remember I met him for lunch one day after.

I couldn't go in the morning and I went to his flat in Soho and he produced this incredibly beautiful piece of cream woven cloth, like really beautiful hand woven thing. I don't know where it had come from. And he said to me, I just bought this from an antique dealer in Camden Lock for £1,000 and I'm going to make a film out of it. And that film became The Garden, which is one of his masterpieces.

I couldn't go in the morning and I went to his flat in Soho and he produced this incredibly beautiful piece of cream woven cloth, like really beautiful hand woven thing. I don't know where it had come from. And he said to me, I just bought this from an antique dealer in Camden Lock for £1,000 and I'm going to make a film out of it. And that film became The Garden, which is one of his masterpieces.

But he bought the cloth first to be the shroud of Christ at the beginning and the heart of this film. It was the buying of the cloth, the expenditure of £1,000, which was just beyond anything that any of us could afford, the investment. But it all started with going to Camden Lock on a Sunday morning. Does that explain the sort of attitude?

But he bought the cloth first to be the shroud of Christ at the beginning and the heart of this film. It was the buying of the cloth, the expenditure of £1,000, which was just beyond anything that any of us could afford, the investment. But it all started with going to Camden Lock on a Sunday morning. Does that explain the sort of attitude?

The life always comes first and the work comes out of the life. But here's another thing that I wanted to say. We could always pick this up tomorrow, but it's just, again, like the leaf has come out of our conversation, David. I was thinking about what we were talking about just a bit before about this resonance in the theater, that place of witness and that openness to resonance.

The life always comes first and the work comes out of the life. But here's another thing that I wanted to say. We could always pick this up tomorrow, but it's just, again, like the leaf has come out of our conversation, David. I was thinking about what we were talking about just a bit before about this resonance in the theater, that place of witness and that openness to resonance.

And this is a huge thing I'm just about... This is a bombshell I'm just going to lay down.

And this is a huge thing I'm just about... This is a bombshell I'm just going to lay down.

The thing I want to talk about, and we'll talk about it tomorrow, is people's innate goodness. I wonder whether art... isn't a call to our innate goodness and an opportunity to connect with that. In the first instance, of course, the empathy machine that cinema in particular is. I mean, art is a massive empathy machine, but cinema in particular, that Eminem at Diet Coke place in the dark is

The thing I want to talk about, and we'll talk about it tomorrow, is people's innate goodness. I wonder whether art... isn't a call to our innate goodness and an opportunity to connect with that. In the first instance, of course, the empathy machine that cinema in particular is. I mean, art is a massive empathy machine, but cinema in particular, that Eminem at Diet Coke place in the dark is

is an invitation to step into other people's shoes. I mean, it's such a massive gesture of agape. isn't it? That, I wonder, this is, I'm seeing you and raising you in your wondering, okay? My wondering is, is about people's innate goodness.

is an invitation to step into other people's shoes. I mean, it's such a massive gesture of agape. isn't it? That, I wonder, this is, I'm seeing you and raising you in your wondering, okay? My wondering is, is about people's innate goodness.

And since you mentioned November the 5th, and we've talked about the rise of the meanness of right-wing politics, let's name it, let's use a word that is appropriate here, meanness of that, across the planet. What oil might get through that grease? How might one be able to connect, reconnect with the innate goodness?