Tim Miller

We'll put it in the show notes for people who don't want to access that easily.

Yeah, here's another thing that I think we're really aligned on.

And who knows, at the end of the day, who knows what the future holds and which candidate will send a thrill up your leg versus mine or whatever.

The one thing, just based on this conversation and others we've had, is I just...

Democrats have been way too inside the box since that 2008 moment with Barack Obama and way too caught up in, as you mentioned, these social media battles between the one faction versus the other faction.

And it's like what is needed right now is, like you're saying, go listen to people, go out and talk, go see what is resonating, what you can talk about that inspires people and talk about it.

And you don't have to fit the Obama faction or the Bernie faction or whatever.

I can

it can be something new.

You can come up with something new that is an amalgamation of a bunch of different things, like a little good ideas from here and there.

And that's the thing that worries me right now.

I still continue to see

A limited amount of creative thinking.

There are a couple of examples out there of people doing some different stuff, but how do you react to that?

I believe in an all of the above approach right now.

Let's go and test a bunch of things, try a bunch of things, but make sure that all that testing and all that trying is proximate to actual normal people.

people.

Go on out there, try a bunch of different things, test a bunch of different things, but make sure that in the trying and testing, you're not just yelling at each other on social media, but you're getting down on the ground and you're listening to people and interrogating your own assumptions through their lived experiences.

Now, I've spent some time with Graham Plattner, the Senate candidate in Maine, who of course has

had a number of interesting controversies, let's say.