Tim Miller

But in many ways, it's a cyclical turn.

Nothing cyclical is guaranteed in 2028 if we don't have much harder conversations with average folk about what their aspirations are.

I want to talk about that durable problem, though, and this lack of empathy and where we might end up in one area in particular, though, which is, and you did some work with PEPFAR, and I've done a bunch of other work in Africa and the Global South.

This feels irreversible.

And obviously, lives have been lost.

That's irreversible.

But on top of that, it's hard to imagine what a democratic... First, I wanted to use political capital on trying to rebuild all of the...

You know, all the infrastructure that goes into that.

Anyway, since you've had a firsthand perspective, I'm just wondering what you think about it.

Well, this is why I love being on your show, because you're going to cover all the important ground.

We don't talk about this stuff enough.

It's not irreversible.

All the damage that was done to USAID was unimaginable in the first place, and yet it happened.

And so it may seem irreversible now.

But if we can figure out a way to make common cause with a lot of conservatives who have supported things like PEPFAR in the past, I think we can get to the other side of this and reconstitute what it means to have a partnership with a lot of government, a lot of communities in the global south that are faster growing than most other places in the world.

are gonna have consequences, either positive or negative for us, depending on how we partner and how we attend to that stuff.

I think that there's space here to make common cause with enough folk who care about these issues that we can fix this stuff.

I was asked some months ago to sign a petition

to push back against what was being done at the US Institute for Peace.

And I said to my friends then, I'm not going to sign this petition because you know what?