Tim Wu

And I feel like we don't talk about it that much anymore.

But this is a place where I've been skeptical of the argument that many problems would be solved by breaking up the big, particularly attentional social media and algorithmic media giants that

I don't think Instagram has gotten better under pressure from TikTok.

I don't think that more ferocious innovation and entrepreneurial work to capture my attention or my children's attention is necessarily good.

Maybe the problem isn't that we're not unleashing competition.

Maybe the problem is that the entire thing that the companies are trying to do, whether there are two of them or 50 of them, is negative.

Yeah, it's a really good point and a good question.

I think in the markets you're talking about, we have a serious failure to wall off, discourage, ban, or ethically consider wrongful the most toxic ways of making money.

So there is such a thing as healthy attentional competition, like making a great movie that keeps the audience enraptured for two hours.

producing a great podcast, that is good intentional competition.

And frankly, the intentional market includes all these forms.

But we have just allowed the flourishing of negative models.

So I think if you had a world in which you had much more limits on what counted

and what was frankly legal in terms of manipulating your devices.

You would see more positive competition if you broke up some of these companies.

I just think the entire marketplace of social media is cursed by the fact that we haven't gotten rid of the most brutal, toxic, and damaging business models for our country and for our children and for individuals.

I think that is a nice place to end.

So always our final question, what are the books you'd recommend to the audience?

And Tim, why don't we begin with you?

Sure, I'd start with E.F.