Tina Brown

I mean, because frankly, he wasn't that big.

That was the other thing.

I mean, despite his obsession with being big, he actually wasn't, you know, compared to someone like Sheldon Solo, who was a massive, you know, real estate person in New York.

I mean…

Trump was just a guy who built a tower and licensed his name.

He really wasn't in that realm.

Never really was.

I didn't sense it.

I knew it.

I mean, it was obviously a bit of a sleazebag.

And it was like, you know, the Ivana Trump divorce, which really, I think, catapulted a lot of the bad stuff because actually, I think Ivana Trump was rather good for Trump in a sense.

She kind of kept him.

But when he left her for Marla Maples, and Marla Maples talks about on the front page of the Post, no doubt dictated by Trump, best sex I've ever had, page on the, you know, front page of the New York Post.

So he's always, you know, he's always been obsessed with his own press, etc.

But

He got darker.

And I mean, I discovered it, in fact, when his business started to go wrong.

And I was a person who published The Art of the Deal as a book extract.

And that's how I got to sort of first meet him.

And so that's really why I was at the lunch, et cetera, et cetera, because he did this book.