Tina Brown

Yeah, he was, he, he has changed.

There's no doubt about it.

I mean, when I first met him in the eighties, he was this funny, you know, braggy New York character, very typical New York character, you know, who, who was sort of built the golden tower.

And he, and he, I first met him when he was married to Ivana and they had, you know, they had this big lunch party, you know, and all the kind of Ivana kept trying to kind of make him part of the New York sort of society scene, which, you know, he,

As soon as they got divorced, you never saw him again anywhere, actually.

But, you know, I was sort of sat next to him.

He said, oh, Ivana made me go to the opera, you know, three hours.

I mean, nothing to eat.

I mean, God, Pavarotti, who cares?

And it was funny.

You know, you just thought he's just this funny, vulgar, funny guy.

So he was irreverent.

He was irreverent and he was funny and all the rest.

But I think that he always had this chip on his shoulder, the man from Queens who wasn't in the in crowd of the sort of real estate big shots.

Wanted to be always, but wasn't.

No, it's not class-based, but it's Outer Boroughs-based, if you know what I mean.

He never felt that he was given the respect of being in the sort of group that was like the big players.

No, not particularly.

It's just that he felt that strongly, that he wasn't.

Bigger, but they also didn't take him seriously.