Tina Brown

And unfortunately, what it's leading to is just a lot of people checking out.

So it's a very demoralizing time.

You know, I'm always being asked by sort of young people at, you know, journalism colleges and so on, like, how do I get into journalism?

And I look at them sort of feeling like – often I say, actually, you should go to India because India, in fact, has a very vibrant literary culture.

You know, there's not much literary culture about anymore, you know.

India, for some reason –

There's a lot of sort of interest in intellectual debate.

And, you know, you go out and everybody's talking about articles and pieces and books.

And there seems to be a great deal of energy.

So it's a long way to go, shall we say.

I just can't believe that your advice is go to India.

It's not popular.

I will say that when I say that you do see the light fade from the eyes, you know.

Well, I mean, I didn't understand their relationship at the time because you never saw Epstein with her, actually.

When Ghislaine was kind of working the scene,

I think Epstein was slightly in her rearview mirror when I knew her.

I didn't really know about that background with Epstein until I read about it later.

I think that she was...

an abused figure herself, actually.

I mean, her father, Robert Maxwell, was a really terrible, tyrannical guy, a press baron at the time and a crook.