Tina Brown

You know, he also, very ironically for her in terms of her life story, he also died mysteriously in a suicide or was it a murder when he went over the side of his boat, having robbed the pension fund.

So he was a crook, the father, but he was a crook that was

the king of the world for a time.

So she was raised in that atmosphere of the glorious press baron, only to find that, in fact, he was a crook.

So she had that sort of trauma.

But I also had this great sort of story in my book, which I found when I was reporting the palace papers, that she took somebody up to her room when she was a little girl to show her her room.

And she said, and all the brushes were like, her hairbrushes were laid out on the counter.

And she said, oh, yes, she said, those are my hairbrushes.

Daddy lets me choose one when he wants to beat me.

So, I mean, you just suddenly saw, you know, he was sort of asking her to curate her own punishment for him to abuse.

So that, I think, is at the core of it, that her father was this really terrible person.

But I think with Epstein, she was mad about him.

You know, I think she was crazy about Epstein.

And the only way she felt she could get into his good graces, if you like, was to sort of participate in and in the end, you know, curate his abuse of young women.

And

You know, one thing I really strongly feel now is that there's a kind of sense that, oh, Epstein, you know, Ghislaine was his sort of procurer.

Okay, that's bad enough.

But actually, when you read the new recent book by Virginia Dufry, who, of course, was the sex slave of Epstein,

It's so clear that, you know, she wasn't just a procurer.

That's bad enough.