Tom Holland

Exciting. So we're in 218 BC, aren't we? Second Punic War. Hannibal, his great strategy is that he's not going to wait for the Romans to attack him. He's going to go for it. He's going to get into Italy. He's going to separate them from the Allies. And his aim is Rome itself. An amazing ambition. for a Carthaginian general.

Exciting. So we're in 218 BC, aren't we? Second Punic War. Hannibal, his great strategy is that he's not going to wait for the Romans to attack him. He's going to go for it. He's going to get into Italy. He's going to separate them from the Allies. And his aim is Rome itself. An amazing ambition. for a Carthaginian general.

Exciting. So we're in 218 BC, aren't we? Second Punic War. Hannibal, his great strategy is that he's not going to wait for the Romans to attack him. He's going to go for it. He's going to get into Italy. He's going to separate them from the Allies. And his aim is Rome itself. An amazing ambition. for a Carthaginian general.

This is a great act of imagination by you, which all great historians have, because you, of course, have never been to the Alps. And yet you can imagine that it's very difficult to go down them. Yes. And particularly with an elephant. And that's the power of imagination, Dominic. Well, it's not just imagination. It's about your sifting of the sources, isn't it? For sure.

This is a great act of imagination by you, which all great historians have, because you, of course, have never been to the Alps. And yet you can imagine that it's very difficult to go down them. Yes. And particularly with an elephant. And that's the power of imagination, Dominic. Well, it's not just imagination. It's about your sifting of the sources, isn't it? For sure.

This is a great act of imagination by you, which all great historians have, because you, of course, have never been to the Alps. And yet you can imagine that it's very difficult to go down them. Yes. And particularly with an elephant. And that's the power of imagination, Dominic. Well, it's not just imagination. It's about your sifting of the sources, isn't it? For sure.

Doesn't Polybius, the Greek historian, tell us that it was very difficult and lots of people fell off the mountain as they went down the hill?

Doesn't Polybius, the Greek historian, tell us that it was very difficult and lots of people fell off the mountain as they went down the hill?

Doesn't Polybius, the Greek historian, tell us that it was very difficult and lots of people fell off the mountain as they went down the hill?

So they do get down. They must be incredibly hungry at this point because they presumably have been delayed on the mountain and they're running short of rations and stuff and it's raining and snowing and all this kind of thing. But finally, they do get down, and all is sweetness and light, right?

So they do get down. They must be incredibly hungry at this point because they presumably have been delayed on the mountain and they're running short of rations and stuff and it's raining and snowing and all this kind of thing. But finally, they do get down, and all is sweetness and light, right?

So they do get down. They must be incredibly hungry at this point because they presumably have been delayed on the mountain and they're running short of rations and stuff and it's raining and snowing and all this kind of thing. But finally, they do get down, and all is sweetness and light, right?

They arrive in these valleys, and we're told that it's sunny and there's streams, and they can all have a rest and sort of flop down by the side of a bank of a river or whatever. And what's the plan then? Presumably, they're just going to go for it. They're going to strike south. towards the sort of the plane of the power towards what's now Turin and stuff?

They arrive in these valleys, and we're told that it's sunny and there's streams, and they can all have a rest and sort of flop down by the side of a bank of a river or whatever. And what's the plan then? Presumably, they're just going to go for it. They're going to strike south. towards the sort of the plane of the power towards what's now Turin and stuff?

They arrive in these valleys, and we're told that it's sunny and there's streams, and they can all have a rest and sort of flop down by the side of a bank of a river or whatever. And what's the plan then? Presumably, they're just going to go for it. They're going to strike south. towards the sort of the plane of the power towards what's now Turin and stuff?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But Tom, can I jump in and make an observation? Yeah, of course. We compared Hannibal, or you compared him in a previous episode to Charles XII of Sweden. A commander who has a lot in common with Hannibal and with Napoleon. They're swashbuckling, they're charismatic, they captivate all Europe, they take the initiative, they sacrifice a lot of men for an advantage.

But Tom, can I jump in and make an observation? Yeah, of course. We compared Hannibal, or you compared him in a previous episode to Charles XII of Sweden. A commander who has a lot in common with Hannibal and with Napoleon. They're swashbuckling, they're charismatic, they captivate all Europe, they take the initiative, they sacrifice a lot of men for an advantage.