Tom Junod

And so I sort of agree with that.

But I think that at the same time, I mean, I see a lot of people sort of...

out there and they're using masculinity as essentially as a shield.

I mean, and they're using it as a shield to accomplish one thing, which is being able to lie your face off with no consequences.

And I think that that is like the thing that I would love to

You know, even just now, because I don't address it in the book.

The book is it's my story.

I don't I don't get political in the book at all.

But I think that the idea that that masculinity, manhood gives you a get out of jail for free card, I think is like, yeah, is intensely damaging.

Those are the big words.

I mean, you just said the biggest word, which is honor.

Yeah.

And you don't see masculinity being championed as a means of honor.

And I look at it and I think that somehow my dad actually taught me, not by example, but at least in his words, that honor was a worthwhile call.

Pick on someone your own size.

Well, I think that that's a really interesting question.

So is manhood the thing that gets you to the point where you are allowed to have this other second life?

Or should it be the thing that...

basically tells you not to have that life, to put on the brakes.

And I think that's like a really interesting and confusing question.