Tomas Ilves

But I know the government is actually kind of very quiet because they see the immediate reaction.

I mean, Merz speaks in a kindergarten and says something.

And Trump gets angry and takes out 5,000 troops.

people think or or being too vocal in criticizing america governments yeah i mean uh yeah basically i mean you know in the case of meloni it took uh trump belittling the pope for her to get her back up uh so i think that in europe countries tend to be be low-key uh these government uh yeah uh leaders tend to be low-key and then um other people say what they want

As soon as you talk to people who have been doing policy for years, they realize it quite well.

Because you were educated in the US, weren't you?

Yes.

You spent a lot of time there.

That's why I have this accent.

Oh, I mean, for me personally, it's actually very difficult in that as a child of refugees who grew up in the United States, I always thought of the United States as that city on the hill and the ultimate defender of the enlightenment values of humanity.

that I studied so much in university and so I had always respected the United States as like the one country that really stands for those fundamental values of freedom and rule of law.

And now, basically, everything seems to be antithetical to what I have always cherished as a result of being the child of refugees.

And growing up in the United States, especially going to university, they really emphasize the historical enlightenment roots of the United States.

I don't know where it's heading, but certainly it's not part of the consciousness of the leaders of the United States today.

And I don't mean only Donald Trump, but when I read Vice President Vance or Secretary of State Rubio… Something's changed, isn't it?

Well, what it needs to do is to get its act together, and there are, I mean, the problems of Europe today really stem from taking a holiday from all of history, beginning with 89, 91.

And not spending enough on defense.

Absolutely.

Well, I mean, when the U.S., it was the U.S., it was George Herbert Walker Bush who said...

It's the peace dividend.