Tracey Alloway

And the book is Defending Taiwan, A Strategy to Prevent War with China.

Really appreciate it.

Joe, that was a fascinating conversation.

And I haven't read the entire book, but I did flip through it and I do recommend it.

It's super interesting.

There's also like some really interesting appendices with speeches from various Taiwanese.

Yeah, I'm going to have to.

Yeah, it's definitely worth reading.

One of the things that stood out there was this.

I mean, towards the end of the conversation, when we were talking about the possibility of like, how do you build up economic resilience that requires the participation of other economies at the same time?

that the Trump administration seems to be pushing a lot of those other economies and strategic alliances further away.

Yes.

Oh, absolutely.

There's also a fundamental tension between the U.S.

building out its chips resilience while deterring China from doing something in Taiwan.

If the U.S.

actually manages to be successful in building domestic capacity, chips capacity, then that...

The silicone shield that's protected Taiwan gets weaker and weaker, right?

You just want to go to Taiwan.

Well, you know what?