The Hidden Plumbing of Commodity Finance

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Odd Lots 47 min 4 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 3 months ago
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What are the foundational concepts of commodity finance?

Tracey Alloway 0:00
OddLots is brought to you by VanEck. For years, investors basically forgot about real assets, energy, gold and infrastructure. But look at what's driving markets now. Central banks loading up on gold, massive capex cycles, currencies doing weird things. These assets are at the center of it. RACS, the VanEck Real Assets ETF, is an actively managed one-stop shop for real assets spanning gold, commodities, natural resource equities, and more. Go to VanEck.com slash RAAXpod to learn more. Fun disclosures later in this episode.
Unknown 0:35
Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News.
Tracey Alloway 0:51
Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.
Joe Weisenthal 0:54
And I'm Joe Weisenthal.
Tracey Alloway 0:56
Joe, I think I've told you this before, but way back when I was starting in financial journalism, I really wanted to be a commodities reporter.
Joe Weisenthal 1:04
I get it. It seems fun. It seems real. It seems like one of the few areas of finance that's like not just a screen. You know what I'm saying?
Tracey Alloway 1:15
Yeah. No, there's a physicality to it, right?
Joe Weisenthal 1:17
Yeah. Yeah. But also, like, you know, everyone's like, this is a relationship business. But I feel like commodities, you know, everyone in finance has that, right?
Tracey Alloway 1:25
Do your banker impression again.
Joe Weisenthal 1:26
This is a relationship. But right. But everyone says that in finance. This is a relationship business. But actually, commodities seems to be one of those areas where actually that's a real thing and not just a cliche and stuff. So I get it.
Tracey Alloway 1:39
It seems to be very idiosyncratic where like one load of whatever commodity might not be completely fungible with the same commodity. Yeah.
Joe Weisenthal 1:47
Because we call it commodities. Right.
Tracey Alloway 1:50
And yet, maybe they're not. But, you know, so I had this like romantic idea in my head of what a commodities reporter actually does, which is like, I don't know, go on ships and travel alongside like huge things of coal and metal and aluminum and stuff like that, which is probably not realistic.
Yeah.
Tracey Alloway 2:08
One aspect of commodities that I never really appreciated was how much financialization there actually is in the market and that there are so many different players in the market. We've sort of touched on it before with the Strait of Hormuz situation where... You know, you have the insurers and then you have the reinsurers and you have like insurers for the freight and for the whole and for like liability. And it just seems so complicated. You have a very similar situation on the financing side. Sure. And it struck me that we have never actually done a commodity financing episode.
Joe Weisenthal 2:43
No, and I'm really interested in this because, again, like one of these things, you always hear about capital efficiency, right? This is very important.

How do commodity financiers manage price risk?

Joe Weisenthal 2:51
And so, okay, here's like – let's say we do not know – I don't know what the cost of moving so and so many kilograms of copper from one place to another is. Whatever that cost is – I probably don't want to tie up all of my capital at that. I probably want to put down a fraction of the thing, borrow the rest, et cetera, then pay off that loan when the ship gets there, et cetera, so that I'm as liquid as possible at any given moment. This is just like, I'm sort of like, this is my first principles. I don't know anything about this space, but I assume that there are a lot of calculations like this within the process of procuring, mining, delivering commodities.
Tracey Alloway 3:31
Absolutely. So today we are going to learn about commodity finance. We're also going to try to get a handle on what's going on in the commodities world right now, given some of the disruptions that we've seen. And I'm glad to say we do, in fact, have the perfect guest. We're going to be speaking with Lewis Hart. He is, of course, the head of corporate advisory and banking at Brown Brothers Harriman. So someone who lives and breathes commodity finance.
Lewis Hart 3:55
Thanks, Tracy. Thanks, Joe. It's great to be here.
Tracey Alloway 3:57
Would you say you know more about commodity finance or 90s hip hop and R&B?
Lewis Hart 4:02
Oh, that's a tough one.
Tracey Alloway 4:03
Very close. Very close. I'm throwing that out of nowhere. He's a big hip hop guy.
Joe Weisenthal 4:08
Tracy knows me well.

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