Trevor Collins
Appearances
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, sicher, besonders wenn wir nicht, auf der einen Seite haben wir nicht all die Informationen, die sie haben, aber auf der anderen Seite sitzen wir hier und nichts davon ist offensichtlich substantiiert von der Wissenschaft, also fühlt es sich ein bisschen wie Looney Tunes an, es fühlt sich ein bisschen da draußen an, aber auch gleichzeitig hat die Regierung dieses Slush-Fun, sie hat...
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Tons of employees. So what's 22 people if it helps with national security, right? That's very true. That's very true. So I can see that. Might as well take a shot at it. Yeah. And I think it just comes back to that old stalemate. Well, they're doing it. So if we don't, we could put ourselves at risk.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
It's an unenviable game, especially if you have people on the ground going, I don't know about like in Project Blue Book. There are people going, this is nothing. All right. But we'll go ahead and go through with it. We'll study this stuff and then we'll go ahead and move on with our lives. Ja, ich meine, du musst dich an die Sache bewegen. Du wirklich.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, denn dann stell dir vor, dass es wahr war, richtig? Und vielleicht ist es so, vielleicht wissen wir es nur noch nicht. Ja, du willst nicht hinterher sein. Ja. Nun, der berühmteste dieser 22 Psychiker war Chef-Warrant-Officer Joseph McMoneagle, der 450 Remote-Viewing-Sessionen aufgenommen hat.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Also, Estimaten aus Projekt-Evaluationssätzen zeigen, dass etwa 15-20% dieser Sessionen Informationen beurteilt haben, die nützlich, präzise oder beendet waren, von Analysten. Also, ich weiß nicht, ob das ein großer Teil ist, ich weiß nicht, ob das ein kleiner Teil ist, aber aus 450 remote Missions, hielten etwa 15-20% von ihnen irgendeine interessante Information.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Right, like if a charlatan was able to get in there and... Right, and so I'm just like, what? Oh man, just the process itself I want to know so much about. It really is fascinating. And again, I keep playing my hand on my disposition. I feel like I'm 99%. I don't know about any of this. It's super fascinating, but I don't feel like it's substantiated. But 1% of me is kind of going...
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich weiß es nicht. Wir wissen nicht, was wir noch nicht wissen. Wir landeten nicht auf der Erde, bis wir es hatten. Wir hatten keine Motorräder, bis wir es hatten, oder keine Elektrizität, bis wir es hatten. Also, ich weiß es nicht. Auf jeden Fall. Also, laut einer CIA-Berechnung war Remote Viewing auf einem Volontierbasis.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
According to Annie Jacobson's book, called Phenomena, intelligence operatives were recruited using a personality profile created by Puthoff and Targ before then interviewing them. So kind of giving you a little bit better idea of how they found people. And these profiles were designed to help find people who had apparent paranormal abilities. So it was kind of like a multi-step process.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und dieser ist fast eine Ausstattung davon. Ich denke, die Regierung hat im letzten Jahrhundert eine wirklich interessante... Oh yeah. Yeah, I don't...
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
People would volunteer, they would try a personality profile before they would then interview them and then maybe test them. And so you kind of get a little deeper as it goes. And maybe part of that is weaning out anybody who might be in this for the wrong reasons or might be a fraud, an open fraud, right?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Absolut. Das ist das Interessante. Die CIA ist also sofort involviert. Aber am Ende würde die CIA direkt mit dem Projekt involviert werden. Und das würde 1977 sein. Und das kam nach einer Beobachtung des Programms von Psychologischer Professor Ray Hyman, der Geller als Fraude genannt hat. Die US-Gewerbe hat noch einige der Forschungen unter der DIA gegründet. Die Defense Intelligence Agency.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber dann haben sie das Programm nach Fort Meade, Maryland gewechselt. Die richtige Zeitung für all das ist ein bisschen verwirrend, aber das Buch, Remote Viewing von Tom Refit, diskutiert die Forschung, die in Menlo Park weitergeht, sogar nachdem die Forschung an Fort Meade begonnen hat. Es scheint also, dass es jetzt zwei verschiedene Orte gibt, die dieses Phänomen recherchieren.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Stargate hat sich durch verschiedene Regierungsorganisationen weiterentwickelt, obwohl die CIA 1977 weggegangen ist. Sie hat sich bis 1995 weiterentwickelt, als die Projektdokumente, wieder einmal von der CIA, für die US-Instituten für Forschung überprüft wurden. Dies war am 22. September 1995. Und das ist die Bewertung, die ich vorhin bemerkt hatte.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und hier möchte ich wiederholen, dass nicht jedes Dokument in Bezug auf dieses Programm deklassifiziert wurde. Das Programm wurde von Programm-Wissenschaftler Dean Radden genannt. Und natürlich, bevor wir über Remote Viewing und Beispiele sprechen, kommen wir zu der Schlussfolgerung dieses Programms. Es gibt zwei Seiten, zwei sehr unterschiedliche Seiten der gleichen Karte.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Je nachdem, woher du sie schaust, ist das Projekt beinahe erfolgreich, aber auch ein kompletter Verlust. Und das erinnert mich an letzte Woche's Episode, das Havanna-Syndrom, in dem man, selbst in dem, zwei aus den sieben Intelligenz-Agenzien in den Vereinigten Staaten glaubten an eine Sache, und fünf aus den sieben glaubten an etwas völlig anderes, oder dass nichts Nefariouses passiert ist.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und das ist, was hier passiert ist. is that some people see this as mostly successful, there's some accurate things happening here, therefore we had some wins, therefore success. While you have other people going, this is entirely fraudulent, it is baseless, there's no scientific evidence here, i.e. complete failure, right?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
And some of those people say, a broken clock is going to be right twice a day. And so if you have 22 people over the course of 450 remote missions, yeah, maybe you have some accurate guessing. Das sind die zwei Angeln hier. Wo liegt dein Herz, wenn du so etwas hörst? Wenn du darüber nachdenkst. Ein Teil von mir will die Dragon Ball Z-Energie haben.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Vielleicht kann ich irgendwann, wenn ich meine Qi genügend fokussiere, fliegen. Aber der andere Teil von mir ist so, dass ich auf der Grunde bin.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
For sure. And we're going to start breaking down what remote viewing is classified as, because I think this is really fascinating to dive into some of these CIA briefs and documents and break down their definitions and their angles. But we will talk about some of these successful cases within remote viewing. And from there, I'm very curious what your thoughts might be.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
But honestly, if I woke up and I suddenly had the ability to peer across the world or the cosmos at a whim, no, I can't, you know? Aus der Perspektive des Weltes? Nein, das kann ich nicht. Aber es werden einige Zeichen geben. Ich werde etwas wissen. Ich werde etwas wissen und dann werde ich es mir selbst geben. Ja, es wird schreckliche Wissen geben. Ja.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. Taskforce, let's talk about numbers. Traditionally, in-person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up pretty fast. But with BetterHelp Online Therapy, you can save an average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
It makes it accessible and a good starting step to figure out yourself and what you need out of a therapist. And the fact that you can change anytime is super important because finding the right person, I think, is the most important part about therapy. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber mit dem, brechen wir das Remote Viewing etwas weiter und dann sprechen wir über einige dieser Beispiele. Also, laut einer CIA-Berechnung auf Stargate wurden drei verschiedene Methoden des Remote Viewing durch das Projekt verwendet. Das erste ist das sogenannte Extended Remote Viewing. Also währenddessen relaxiert man und vielleicht kannst du es versuchen, ich weiß nicht.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Sie relaxieren und erlauben ihrem Gehirn, sich in den Theta-Brainwave-Stand zu bewegen. Das ist eine Art von künstlerischen Zustand. Du weißt, viele Leute sprechen darüber, wenn du im Schauer bist und die Wasser über deinem Kopf fliegen lässt, beginnst du all diese tollen Ideen zu haben. Und das ist, weil das Geräusch des Wassers, das dein Kopf schlägt, einen solchen Zustand wie diesen hilft.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und es gibt vieles um die Gehirnwäsche, das immer noch studiert wird. Ich finde es sehr faszinierend. Aber egal, die Leute meditieren, um in diesen Theta Gehirnwahlzustand zu kommen. Und das Ziel ist es, Wie gesagt, ein hypnagogischer Zustand oder ein Zustand, in dem man nur drüben schläft, in einem dunklen, lüftigen Raum.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Also ist wirklich der einzige Stimulus, den man haben kann, kommt aus dem Geist. Und dieser Art von Beobachtung betrifft das Fokussieren auf Gefühle und Bilder aus dem Unterbewusstsein. Once there's a vision or a sense of something, another person might kind of ask questions of you to draw more of that out. But these sessions take longer than the other types of remote viewing.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
The second type of remote viewing is called coordinate remote viewing. And this has subcategories, so it gets a little detailed. But this type of remote viewing is when somebody is given geographic coordinates and that's it. You know, a north-south whatever coordinate system on the map and said, tell me what's there.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und darin befindet sich ein 6-Stage-Prozess, der von SWAN entwickelt wurde und im Februar 1985 in einem Papier genannt wurde, das heißt, Coordinate Remote Viewing Stages 1-6 und weiter. Dies wurde im August 2000 deklassifiziert. Also, eine Phase nach der anderen. Im Allgemeinen werden sie immer mehr spezifisch.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und ich werde Ihnen Beispiele geben, die sie in ihrem Papier bieten, um eine deutlichere Bildung zu machen. Also Phase 1 ist Major Gestalt. Also ein Beispiel hier, Sie sehen Land, das von Wasser umgekehrt ist. Sie können feststellen, dass dies eine Insel sein könnte. Dies ist die breiteste Phase. Und wiederum, wir bekommen mehr Details von hier.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Phase 2 ist Sensory Contact, wo Sie etwas wie eine Kälte-Sensation fühlen können. oder die Idee eines Windschweppes, wie du Wind auf deinem Gesicht spüren kannst. Phase 3 nennt sich Dimension Motion Mobility.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Hier ist es ein bisschen vage, aber sie beschreiben es als ein Aufstehen oder eine panoramische Sicht, oder in unserem Beispiel etwas wie die Ausstellung der Insel mehr spezifisch, wo man es jetzt vielleicht auf ein Stück Papier bilden kann. Phase 4 nennt sich General Qualitative Analytical Aspects. So from here it starts to get a lot more specific. Maybe you see live organisms.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Maybe you see something that comes to mind like a scientific research center. Stage five, getting even more detailed, is called specific analytical aspects. And then parenthetically by interrogating signal line. Just kind of confusing, I'll describe in a minute. But the example here is that the scientific research center from stage four maybe takes more shape.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Vielleicht ist es eigentlich mehr ein Biologischer Kriegsort oder ein Präparationsort. Also wie gesagt, es ist nicht nur eine wissenschaftliche Forschungsanlage, aber wir haben mehr Details darüber, was diese Location ist.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und das Buch spricht über das Analysieren des Signals, das man bekommt, und nicht in den ersten Impressionen eingeworfen werden, die, was sie nennen, analytische Überlegungen oder AOL, kreieren können.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, und das reaffirmiert wirklich, vor allem an dieser Stelle, wenn du diese Details anfängst zu bekommen, füge nicht einfach nur zu Beschlüsse, versuche nicht zu stark. Ja. Wenn du das Wissenschaftsforschungszentrum siehst, vielleicht ist das einfach so. Versuche nicht, Beschlüsse zu machen, weil sie möglicherweise logisch sind, aber sie könnten falsch sein.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Sie wollen dich wirklich in diesem Fluss-Stand, so zu sprechen. Also, was auch immer die Wahrheit sein könnte, hat tatsächlich die Chance, voranzukommen, also ist es nicht falsch. Und dann ist Phase 6 die detailreichste. Und das ist, wo es sich um dreidimensionale Kontakt oder Modellierung handelt. Natürlich, wie der Name empfiehlt, kann man zu diesem Punkt ein Layout bauen, Details der Facilität.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Vielleicht bekommen Sie einen weiteren Antikontakt mit dieser Location, um zu sehen, wie das biologische Wachstum aussehen könnte. In dieser Phase gehen die meisten Zuschauer weit über das Zeichnen der Destination und sie bauen 3D-Repräsentationen der remote Location mit Kleidung, Kleidung, Posterpapier und so weiter. Ja, also wiederum, das ist koordinierungsbasiert. Es ist sehr extensiv.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Es ist sehr extensiv und ein Teil von mir sagt, ich genieße die wissenschaftliche Methode hier, aber auch Details machen keine Fakten. Also es ist ein bisschen wie, ich liebe es, wie detailliert es ist, weil es Jahrhunderte von Forschung ist, die Leute gemacht haben.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber ich bin auch so, Mann, ich will ein 3D-Modell sehen, das jemand von jemandem gebaut hat, von seinem Haus, das sie noch nie gewesen sind. Das wäre ja, das wäre eine kompelte Information.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, und der dritte Typ ist viel einfacher. Es heißt einfach geschriebenes remote Viewing. Also, das ist geschriebenes und verbal, wie Autowritten. In diesem Methodus werden die Individuen in diesen entspannenden, fokussierten Zustand eingetreten und sie sammeln intuitiv Informationen über eine Zielposition.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Also, anstatt ihre Vorstellungen zu verbalisieren, dokumentieren sie ihre Impressionen im Wissen, manchmal im Schreiben. Aber dieser Ansatz war weniger beliebt als die Standard-Koordinat-Remote-Viehlungen, die in diesem Programm genutzt wurden.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Der zweite Typ hat viel mehr Detail daran, weil sie die Koordinat-Base viel genauer betrachten, weil man den Fokus auf einen bestimmten Punkt setzt, anstatt breit auf das Ether, so zu sprechen. So with the history of Stargate Project and the types of remote viewing behind us, I want to look at some of the instances where remote viewing worked out.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
I'm really curious to get your instinct and your reactions to some of these, because when researching, again, it was really fascinating to see all the different voices that thought this project was a smashing hit right out the gate, right? But they all sat right next to the individuals who critiqued this project, who didn't think that this was worth its salt. So, let's talk about these.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Starting up with the first example from Rosemary Smith. So in 1979, the administrative assistant that was recruited to Stargate as a psychic was given a map of Africa. At this time, a Soviet plane known as the Tupolev Tu-22 had crashed in what is now known as the Democratic Republic of Congo, but the military was unable to locate it. So, I really wanted to contextualize things here.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
The Tupolev plane is quite small by aircraft standards and the Democratic Republic of Congo, had a different name at that time, is quite large. I mean, we're talking about a bomber with a 78-foot wingspan crashing in a country that's over 900,000 square miles or just around 2.35 million square kilometers. And just to be clear, that is more than three times the size of Texas.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Das ist sehr schwer zu finden. Ja, wir reden über einen echten Niedel in einem Hähnchen. Also, die Frage, die ich dem Publikum hier fragen möchte, ist, weshalb ich diesen speziellen Flugzeug suche. Nämlich, es enthält wertvolle Spionage-Informationen und Equipment. Also will das Regierung ihre Hände darauf holen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Christian, möchtest du mal schauen, wie viele Kilometer groß und weit dieses Land ist? Ich habe das für ein späteres Beispiel gemacht, weil ich wirklich 5 Kilometer weit nicht weit ist. Aber ich will wirklich darauf achten, dass wir es in der Szene des gesamten Landes bekommen, den sie nachschauen sollte, um zu sehen, wie nah das wirklich ist.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Okay, also innerhalb von fünf Kilometern ist, das ist innerhalb von, wie vielen Standard-Deviationen? Ich kann kein schnelles Mathematik. Das ist sehr nah dran.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und ich habe sogar die Map geschaut, weil ich mir gedacht habe, okay, na, schauen wir mal, was, wenn sie eine Hecke von einem Lake hatten, weißt du, oder was, wenn sie nur, weißt du, viele Berge hatten, und so waren die Stadt-Limite minimiert. Ich meine, eine Sache, die ich nicht gedacht habe, war Flugzeuge.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich weiß nicht, welche Flugzeuge eine Tupolev TU-22 nehmen wird, mit Spionage-Informationen an Bord. Aber ich meine, wenn es konsistente Luftfahrtlinien gibt, dann verringert das die möglichen Locationen wirklich groß.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich meine, das ist wirklich interessant, auch wenn es nur ein paar ist. Wenn du auf einer seltenen Angelegenheit so genau wirst, gibt es da etwas. Ich weiß nicht, das ist wild.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich meine, wir haben vorhin darüber gesprochen, dass etwa 15-20% in irgendeiner Art und Weise beendet werden. Das bedeutet nicht, dass 15-20% auf so einem Niveau akkurat sind, dass sie einen Fall gelöst haben oder etwas herausgefunden haben. Es ist, dass 15-20% das Ding in die richtige Richtung genutzt haben, das schlussendlich zu einer Beendigung führte.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Wie du gesagt hast, bin ich sehr interessiert, was für ein Niveau so akkurat ist. Ja. Gehen wir nun zu einem anderen Beispiel. Psychiker von Stargate wurden mit der Unterstützung in der Iran-Hostage-Krise beschäftigt. Also am 4. November 1979, das gleiche Jahr, besiegen 3.000 arme Studenten die US-Embassie in Tehran, Iran.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Vielen Dank. Und wenn ein Super-Soldat aufsteht, jemand mit Mind-Control, jemand mit Remote-Viewing und sie waren 100% akkurat, I feel like suddenly that dam is going to break and everyone will have that. People will be studying it at home, meditating, hovering off their floors, trying to figure out what to do next.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Vor diesem Zeitpunkt waren die US-Beziehungen mit Iran nach dem Ende der iranischen Revolution anstrengend. Der Krieg war eine direkte Antwort auf den vorgelegten ehemaligen Führer von Iran, der in den Vereinigten Staaten medizinisches Betriebe erlaubt wurde.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
So, the psychics monitored the hostages and the situation for over a year, at which point one of the psychics predicted a hostage was soon to be released. So after over 365 days, one of the psychics decides, hey, one of them is about to be released, saying this, quote, I don't know his name yet, but it's found in a deck of cards, and he has multiple sclerosis. Endquote.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Days later, again after over a year, Richard Queen, who did indeed have MS, was released as a hostage. And so Queen, being in the deck of cards... How do you get... I don't know his name, but I know it's in the deck of cards. I'm just like, how does... Wie kommen wir da hin? Was sind die Zeichen dahinter? Richtig.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich versuche wirklich, meine Meinung zu öffnen und zu sagen, okay, jemand ist da draußen, remote angeschaut. Was bekommen sie von dieser Location, die sagt, ich kenne nicht den Namen, aber ich kenne eine Karte von Karten. Das kommt mir in den Sinn.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Obwohl es so ist, was, wenn es irgendeine Art von Alien-Mediator gibt, der sagt, lass mich ein paar Signale von dieser Person senden, aber sei wirklich kryptisch. Oder ein Geist mit ein bisschen Wissen ist wie, ja, es ist die Königin, aber nicht wie der Name, sondern wie die Karte. Ich meine, das ist immer noch sehr beeindruckend.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
John Edwards? Crossing Over? Oh, ja. Ja, ja, ja. John Edward, ich musste es googeln. Das ist, wo ich so einen Vibe bekomme, wo ich sage, ich nehme etwas hierher. Weißt du, es ist ein Name eines Karten. Weißt du, das ist, wo diese Art von Taktik laut auf mich kommt.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Sie wird jetzt stärker. Richtig, weil King, Jack, all diese Dinge sind auch Namen. Und hör mal, ich liebe Leute wie Dan Brown, Mentalisten, Illusionisten. Ich finde all diese Dinge sehr faszinierend, aber ich sehe es mehr als performativ. Und Dan Brown hat diese Dinge überprüft, aber er kennt auch diese Techniken.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und ich werde ein bisschen zynisch, besonders wenn es so ernst ist, dass jemand kommt. Ich meine, wiederum. Sie versuchen, als Remote Viewer hilfreich zu sein. Leute wie John Edward wehren sich auf die Leute. Ich habe diese Taktiken als Pattern gesehen, und ich konnte nicht helfen, die Kryptokarte des Dekken der Karten zu klopfen. Aber wir kommen zu yet another case.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Remote Viewer Angela Della Fiora Ford wurde gefragt, einen Customs Agenten zu finden, der auf dem Weg war. Das ist ziemlich einfach. Sie gab eine Location von Lowell, Wyoming. Endlich wurde dieser Individuum verhaftet, aber es war 100 Meilen westlich von Lowell, oder Lowell, Wyoming.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime and the paranormal. I am your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing about this project for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Für den Rekord, Wyoming ist, um eine ähnliche Größe zu vergleichen, Wyoming ist zwischen 342 und 365 Meilen von Ost nach West. Und wenn du 100 Meilen weg bist, bist du 30 Prozent des Staates breit. Und ich glaube, es ist interessant, dass sie sagten, Lowell, Wyoming, während Lawville, nur eine Lektion Unterschied, L-O-W-E-L-L versus L-O-V-E-L-L. It's interesting. It's interesting. Yeah.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
We don't know what we don't know. Is she told that the person is likely in the Pacific Northwest? Are they told that it's likely in Wyoming? Are they told it's in North America? All of these things have different, you know, wow factors. Yeah. Yeah.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, es ist es. Mhm. Sie können von dem Bewerber, der nicht alle Antworten hat, aber sie haben ein bisschen Wissen. Sie holen ein bisschen dieser Wissen, um ihre Remote Viewing deutlicher zu machen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, ich meine, ich weiß nicht, wo er ist, aber ich weiß, dass er Dior Sauvage trägt, ich kann ihn riechen, weißt du? Ja. Das würde wirklich interessant sein, wenn das auch akkurat wäre. Das ist ein bisschen interessant, aber der nächste ist einfach mein Lieblings. Es ist April 27, 1973 und es gibt einen remote Viewing Instance mit Ingo Swann und er sieht Jupiter.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Okay, er sagt, dass es ihm nach 30 Minuten Seinem um drei Minuten dauerte, Jupiter deutlich zu sehen. Er schließt seine Augen, er hat sein Geist-Teleskop weit offen. Swan berichtete einen unterschiedlichen Ring um Jupiter, ähnlich zu Saturns Ringen. Okay, also Saturn für Crash Course Science. Saturn ist der eine mit den großen, wunderschönen Ringen, die wir alle kennen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Jupiter, der größte Gas-Giant in unserem Solarsystem. Viele Mühlen, ein wunderschöner Planeten. Und er sagt, dass er einen Ring um ihn sieht. Er beschreibt auch, dass er Kristalle in und um diesen Planeten gesehen hat. Jupiter hat also einen Ring. Es ist sehr klein, sehr schwer von hier auf der Erde zu sehen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber Jupiters Ring wurde nicht offiziell von Astronauten entdeckt, bis 1979, also sechs Jahre später, während eines Flughauses von Voyager 1. Nun, hier möchte ich noch ein paar Schmerzen abschneiden und versuchen, das herauszufinden. Ich würde sagen, dass das vielleicht ein beruflicher Wunsch ist, weil wir wissen, dass alle Gas-Gianten in unserem Solarsystem Ringe haben.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Natürlich hat Jupiter die Ringe. Das wurde in 1610 erst gesehen. Aber was interessant ist, ist, dass wir das in 1973 nicht wussten. Wir wussten Jupiter, aber Uranus' Ringe wurde bis 1977 nicht entdeckt und Neptuns wurde bis 1984 nicht entdeckt. Und er sagt, dass Jupiter einen Ring hat, ich kann ihn sehen und ich sehe diese Kristalle.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und das wäre, ich meine, vielleicht macht er einen Wunsch über etwas, das wir für Jahre nicht beurteilen können. Oder vielleicht sieht er etwas.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Genau, also es ist entweder nur ein wirklich blöder Wunsch, dass er sagt, was auch immer, du kannst mich nicht beweisen oder in den nächsten Jahren entdecken, also werde ich es einfach rauswerfen, oder er sieht etwas. Nun, bezüglich dieser sogenannten Kristalle, die er erwähnt hat, hat das Galileo von NASA bemerkt, dass es tatsächlich auch Ammoniakristalle auf Jupiter gibt.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und ich schreibe NASA hier. Quote. Endquote. Also, Kristalle könnten viele Dinge sein, es könnten Steine sein, es könnten Gems sein, es könnten Eis sein, aber er zeigt sie heraus und es scheint, dass es akkurat ist. Also wiederum, ist das ein beruflicher Wunsch? Ist es ein glücklicher Wunsch? Weißt du, oder sieht er es tatsächlich? Ich weiß nicht, aber ich liebe diesen, weil es Raum ist.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
It would be a new era, but immediately the playing field would become level again. It's just a heightened level of... Konflikt oder Stalemate, wie ich es gesagt habe. Aber dieses ist wirklich, wirklich interessant. Stargate Projekt fokussiert sich viel auf Remote Viewing und die Geschichte davon ist ein bisschen verschlüsselt.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich sage, 2001, der Weltraum-Odyssee, ein unglaublicher Buch, ein unglaublicher Film, völlig anders von einander, sage ich. Das Buch kam 1968 raus. Und was ich am liebsten darüber habe, ist, dass Arthur C. Clarke genau diese Dinge erläutert. Und er kommt nicht in die Richtung, oh, da ist ein Ring auf Jupiter.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber was er durch den Blick auf David in dieser Geschichte erforscht, sorry, ich kann das nicht, Dave, dieser ganze David, ist, als er das Star-Kind wird, was sehr kryptisch im Film ist, aber sehr klar im Buch, Er fliegt um die Sonnensysteme, besucht alle Teile dieser Planeten. Und er geht zu Jupiter und er sieht einen Dämonen der Größe von der Erde im Zentrum der Planeten.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und er geht durch die Cloud-Layer und besucht all diese Dinge. Also sage ich, dass, auch aus einer öffentlichen Sicht, das ein beruflicher Wunsch sein könnte. Ich kontextualisiere es in dem, was wirklich breit bekannt ist, in Bezug auf Gas-Giants und was wir jetzt und damals wissen. Also, du hast recht, es könnte immer noch ein Level von gut gelesenem, beruflichem Guesswerk geben.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Denn selbst das Buch, das fünf Jahre vor seinem remote Viewing stattfand, könnte ihm wirklich prophetisch klingen lassen. Denn Arthur C. Clarke hatte einen Weg, Science zu nehmen, es anzuwenden und sehr korrekt zu sein. Seine Vorstellungen, sein Vorsicht waren einfach unglaublich. Darum liebe ich seine Bücher. Aber ja, ich weiß nicht. Raum für Rinkle.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, aber Mann, will ich es wirklich sein? Weil ich Star Child werden möchte. Ich will auf eure Ropa mit meinen Augen schauen. Mann, das wäre cool. Ein Astronaut in meinem Zimmer zu sein. Das wäre was.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, ich meine, oh, denk an all das Wissen, das Menschen nicht haben sollten, und sie könnten einfach über deinen Schulter poppen und dein, ich weiß nicht, dein Social Security-Nummer lesen oder dein Essay lesen oder all die anderen sinnvollen und gefährlichen Dinge, die man tun könnte. Oh Mann. Richtig, das ist das, was ich sage. Okay, ich will das nicht mehr als eine Sache sein.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ein letztes Beispiel, bevor wir anfangen. Es gab einen prominenten und frühen Remote-Viewer namens Pat Price. Sie wurden Konditionen von einem, Quote, sowjetischen Ort der großen Interesse, Ende Quote, gegeben. Und das war in Kazak, SSR, 1974. Now, Price wurde Konditionen gegeben und gesagt, dass der Ziel 25 bis 30 Meilen südwesten eines Rivers war. Ich habe ein Bild für dich.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Schau es dir an, Fredo. Es gibt zwei von ihnen für dich. Price beschrieb und schrieb einen 8-Wheel-Gantry-Kran, ein Layout von Siloen und ein Raum in einem Gebäude, das eine 60-Foot-Diameter-Metall-Sphäre enthält. Und es war aus dünnem Metall-Gor, wie er es beschrieben hat. So wie ein Orangeneil, hat er gesagt. Schau dir das Gantry an. Und das zweite Bild, glaube ich, ist der Teillager.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Also ich werde Sie durch all die verschiedenen Namen, die es einmal hatte, bevor es unter die Umbrella von Stargate Projekt fallen. Dann werden wir darüber sprechen, die spezifischen Angeln, die sie genommen haben, was Remote Viewing ist, wie es geklassifiziert ist, wie sie es studiert haben.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
This is what he's seeing during his remote viewing. Yeah, he's given coordinates. Hey, it's 25 to 30 miles south of a river in this country or this area, I should say. The Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic in 1974. And this is what he was seeing. Very detailed, right?
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, ja. Er sagte, dass jene, die das zusammengebracht haben, es nicht anbieten konnten und, Quote, nach einer niedrigeren Temperatur anbietende Materialien suchten, Ende Quote.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und später wurden sie erzählt, dass dies eine Nuklearwaffen-Testungsstelle war und dass drei Jahre später tatsächlich ein Magazin namens Aviation Weekly berichtete, Quote, die Sphäre, die ungefähr 58 Meter in Diameter war, um Energie aus nuklearexplosiven Explosiven oder Puls-Power-Generatoren zu erzeugen, Ende Quote.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Das heißt also, dass ich denke, dass es mir so aussieht, als hätte die Regierung einen Hinblick darauf, was das war, aber sie wollten Pat Price nicht in die größeren Details einlassen. Sie wollten sagen, hey, geh zu einer Remote-Viewing-Session in diesem generikeren Bereich. Ich werde dir sagen, es ist nahe einem Meer, aber nicht zu nahe. Sag mir, was du siehst.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Nun, die Informationen könnten zu ihm gelaufen sein, und vielleicht ist das so, dass einige davon akkurat sind, es gibt Raum dafür, aber der Fakt, dass er nur in Isolation mit etwas kam, das ziemlich nahe an dem, was sie wussten, in dieser Gegend war, oder sie wussten völligerweise über eine Waffen-Testungs-Fazilität, nicht vielleicht die Details, ist sehr interessant, denke ich.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, absolut. Es könnte Teil der Test- und Interviewprozesse sein, um Kandidaten zu finden.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und dann am Ende, weißt du, ich weiß, dass es viele Opinionen gibt, ob das funktioniert, ob das verfügbar ist. Wir sprechen darüber auch, aber wir sprechen über einige der wirklich beeindruckenden Momente, in denen Remote Viewing wirklich in einen akkuraten Weg gespielt wurde.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich weiß es nicht. Es ist interessant, ich würde ca. 100 Leute hirten und dann alle, um auf Deal oder No Deal zu sein. Oh.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Could you imagine though, somebody perfects Deal or No Deal and they're like, that guy's on something, he knows something, he's like, he nails the 1, 2, 5, 10 dollar bags all at the top. Oh yeah, I mean, people would question the hell out of it. Yeah, alright, so those are some of the cases, right, out of the 450 plus cases. von Remote Viewing-Missionen, die relativ erfolgreich gewesen sind.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Wir wissen nicht wirklich, wie viele von ihnen erfolgreich gewesen sind. Viele davon sind noch nicht bezeichnet. Und das klingt wie ein Schlag in den Bucket. Ich kann das nicht beurteilen. Aber ich finde es sehr faszinierend. Und als wir zum Schluss kommen, möchte ich einige dieser Gedanken in den modernen Tag einbringen. Denn es gab einen Mann namens Robert Monroe.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
der eine ähnliche Recherche auf seiner eigenen Seite verfolgt hat. Dies geschah im Zusammenhang mit der CIA. Er war Radio-Berichterstatter und studierte die Psy-Phänomene selbst. Es ist fast wie ein Gehweg zu einem anderen Thema, welches vielleicht seine eigene Episode sein wird. Aber ich möchte mit ihm beenden.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
So, he was interested in how sound frequencies could affect the brain, particularly in expanding states of consciousness and what's called the sleep learning, right? So this was an old idea, some people still subscribe to it, that one can passively learn while asleep.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Du weißt, Karten auf dem Tisch, ich finde nicht wirklich viel wissenschaftliche Beweise für etwas wie das, aber Mann, finde ich es sehr faszinierend. Und ein Teil von mir fragt sich immer, ja, aber was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
This was explored in Dexters lab, when he's trying to learn French while sleeping and all he learns is omelette du fromage, yeah, cheese omelette. Nun, dieser Weg von Studium und Forschung führte ihn letztendlich dazu, den Begriff der Aus-Body-Erfahrung zu bezeichnen, welches ich denke, ist ein Stapel in allen Häusern. Ich denke, wir wissen alle, was das bedeutet.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber es ist ein Ergebnis dieses erweiterten Bewusstseins. Und es ist sehr ähnlich wie remote Viewing. Er führte dazu, das so genannte Monroe-Institut zu finden. Es existiert noch heute. Im Juni 1983 hat die CIA einen Bericht von Armeekommandant Wayne McDonnell veröffentlicht.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und McDonnell wurde beteiligt, darüber zu lernen und die möglichen Benutzer der so genannten Gateway-Erfahrung von Monroe zu prüfen. Jetzt, wenn du das gehört hast, okay, also McDonald's Wörter und Methoden, um dieses sogenannte Gateway zu beherrschen, sind heute noch in Online-Gemeinschaften verwendet. Und Fredo, ich weiß, dass dein Algorithmus komplett anders ist als mein.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Mein ist komplett mit manchmal Pseudoscience, manchmal Paranormale, manchmal so Sachen wie diesem und oftmals echten Kram und ungeschlossenen Geheimnisse. Aber das ist in Bezug auf etwas, was die Gateway-Tapes nennt. So from this state of consciousness people have experience anything from ego death, where they're kind of actualizing themselves, right? That's a whole other thing I could go into.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Or they've remote viewed, or they have dreamwalked, or it just helps them meditate. But long way of saying, there are online communities that almost religiously observe these gateway tapes. I think they're accessible online Und sie sprechen über die Vorteile von diesen Dingen. Und es ist weniger für remote Viewing und mehr für diese internen Meditationen. Es ist wirklich faszinierend.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Oder sogar nur faszinierende, faszinierende Wäsche, die nur Nausea und Schmerzen verursachen.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, es gibt viele, wiederum, Pre-Wissenschaften, Pseudoscience, unsubstanziierte Reden über Vibrationen und Geräusche. Da gibt es definitiv etwas, aber viele Leute Ich weiß nicht, es ist faszinierend. Es sind frühere Tage auf dieser Ebene. Es gibt nichts Konklusives, aber ich finde es immer noch interessant. Oh, ja. Aber um zum Schluss zu kommen.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Das Monroe-Institut erhält bis heute weiterhin Klassen. Und was Stargate betrifft, wissen wir, oder sollen wissen, dass das Projekt 1995 beendet wurde. Aber viele behaupten, dass es Gerüchte gibt, dass Stargate bis heute weitergehen könnte. Vielleicht gab es geheimen Erfolge und sie wollten das weiter recherchieren.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Unter dem Ausdruck, dass es nichts ist, es ist nur eine Farce, es ist fake, es ist nichts. Und trotzdem tinkern sie weg. Aber das ist Stargate Project.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Diese Idee, dass wir... Ich habe mir vorgestellt, dass du gesagt hast, dass wir schon da waren. Wir waren in einer Art Simulation und unsere Körper sind nur wie Gelo und wir sind nur wie... Oh Gott, eine Batterie. Oh, eine Batterie. Was war das, der Bruce Willis-Film? Wo sie alle... Sie sind nicht in ihren echten Körpern, sie sind in den Robot-Versionen ihrer Körper.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Das war, was ich mir vorgestellt habe. Ich war so, oh nein, ich will nicht träumen und in einer falschen Version von mir sein. Ist das... Ist das Tollmonkeys?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Surrogate, ja. Surrogate, ja. Das ist ein Sovereign, nicht ein Sovereign. Aber zurück zu dieser Remote Viewing Sache. Ich meine, du und ich haben etwas wie dieses versucht, wo wir versucht haben, eine Sensory Deprivation Technik zu machen, die Gansfield-Experiment genannt wird, wo du was siehst, was du siehst, du hast dieses rote Licht, das dich überbringt, und du versuchst, dich auszutun.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Du weißt, du hast einen weißen Geräusch oder einen pinken Geräusch in deinen Ohren und du hast versucht, mir Signale zu senden. Ich habe versucht, dir Signale zu senden, um zu sehen, ob wir uns ein Bild senden können. Und äh, ich finde es wirklich faszinierend. Ich denke, wenn es einen mentalen Bluetooth gibt, den wir alle einschalten können. Ich denke, das wäre wirklich, wirklich cool.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber sobald du das öffnest, Mensch, wird die Welt ein anderer Ort. Oh, ja. Ich weiß nicht. Ich weiß nicht. Aber ja, Task Force, lass uns wissen, was du denkst. Das war Stargate Project. Any final thoughts, Fredo?
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
I forgot about that one. Alright, well... I did have a whole anecdote I wanted to go into. Maybe I'll save that for, because we're at time here. Maybe I'll save that for the Task Force members over on Patreon. I feel like I have a Mandela effect with a false memory about like kids being tested with this sort of stuff when we were going through elementary school.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
But I'll save that for a story time over there. If that sounds interesting to you, head to redwebpod.com to find that whenever it goes up, but also to support the show. Like I said, we're in the midst of mystery madness. Come get your votes in. Free members all get to send their votes in. We really want to make sure we hear from all of you.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
And then as a bonus, we will have exclusive recaps for the rounds, reacting to your comments and all the results every single week. Polls go up on Saturday and then reaction videos go up every Thursday all the way into April. But with that... Fredo, I'll see you right back here next Monday for yet another mystery.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
You know, I'll debunk everything I can. Yeah, I want it till I don't want it. Yeah, well, that's true. But that one little sliver where we just don't know, that's where we thrive. You know, that's where our roots grow. But we talked about our Patreon page and I want to give a few shoutouts. It's kind of become a hit list. Fredo's out there hunting squonks. Give me the names.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
This week I want to shout out two buff scientists. We got Jenna and Guilherme. And then of course our squonks, run and hide before you melt. It's TGYK94, Zachary Orr and Heathery Stahlkopp. Okay. Easy. Easy. Okay. Done. And of course... We are here at the very end of March, but Mystery Madness will continue into next week.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Round 5's bonus video, the recap video for that round, will be going out this Thursday. And the final vote between... We took 64 Mysteries that we've covered, Task Force. And we put them head to head and we listen to your votes, your comments. And we are down. This Saturday is the final two. So it's up to you. Head to redwebpod.com to support our show. Get access to Mystery Madness Extras.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Voting is free. Du bekommst auch diesen Podcast gratis, viele weitere Extra's. Aber damit möchte ich direkt in das Stargate-Projekt reingehen. In den frühen 1970er-Jahren gab es Gerüchte über die Sowjetunion, die verschiedene okkulte Ideen und Parapsychologie studierte. Im Wesentlichen studierten sie ESP, oder extrasensory perception, diese Idee des sechsten Sens, so zu sprechen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Psychokinesis, das ist die Möglichkeit, Objekte mit dem Kopf zu bewegen. Kopfkontrolle. Und sie wollten sehen, wie diese hypothetischen Fähigkeiten oder andere psychische Phänomene in der Spionage helfen könnten. Natürlich sind wir in den Träumen der Koldauer, wo es ein Stalemate to the max ist. Nuklearwaffen, die sich mit den Vereinigten Staaten befinden.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Also ist das natürlich die Ära, in der sie sehen können, was sie tun können, um Informationen zu bekommen und wie sie einander auslösen. Also natürlich, während der Koldauer, hat die US-Gesellschaft und die CIA ihr eigenes Forschungsprogramm der psychischen Fähigkeiten geschaffen, um vor Russland zu kommen. Es ist sehr ähnlich wie die Weltkrieg, aber vielleicht für die X-Mens, richtig? Ja.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Laut der Forschung der Defense Intelligence Agency waren die sowjetischen Studien von paranormalen Phänomenen im Krieg sehr extensiv. Und einiges davon ist noch immer sehr geheim, nicht auszulösen, keine Befreiung von Informationsvermögen, die erlaubt wurden. Einige davon wurden deklassifiziert. Wir werden über all die Dinge sprechen, die es gewesen sind.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber es gibt einige Knöpfe und Knöpfe, wo es ein bisschen schmutzig ist, über die Details. Zum Beispiel wissen wir nicht, wie extensiv die sowjetischen Studien waren, aber wir wissen, dass sie ziemlich gut studiert wurden.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Du wirst alles wissen müssen. Richtig, und wenn sie sagen, ja, das ist etwas wirkliches, dann spielen sie einfach ihre Hände. Also, natürlich werden sie sehr hübsch sein, wenn es eine echte Sache ist. Und wenn es nicht eine echte Sache ist, wenn sie sagen, nein, dann wird das andere Land sagen, ja, aber du hast uns einfach aus dem Sinn gebracht, also werden wir es immer noch tun. Ja, genau.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Niemand wird glauben, was jemand sagt. Also, Forschung in den Vereinigten Staaten begann für ein Programm, das zuerst als SCANATE, S-C-A-N-A-T-E genannt wurde, am Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, Kalifornien. Dies wurde von Physikern Russell Targ und Harold Puthoff geführt. Das Programm und verschiedene Instanzen davon wurden von vielen verschiedenen Namen verwendet.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Es hat sich mehrere Male geändert, bevor es in den 1990er-Jahren unter das Umbrella von Stargate Project gefallen ist. Ich werde all das als Stargate Project bezeichnen, aber erinnere dich daran, dass es bis in die 90er Jahre andere Namen hatte, wie Gondola Wish. Grillflame, Centerlane und Sunstreak. Wir haben einige der Berichte aus diesen verschiedenen Gruppen namens Sunstreak gesehen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Wir haben einen Bericht über ihre Remote-Viewing-Erfahrung gelesen, aber ich werde sie alle unter Stargate bezeichnen. Das ist ein cooles Name. Es war auch ein cooles Show-Movie. Welches? Stargate. Ist das nicht das Show? Es war auch ein Film. Es war ein Film vor einem Show. Oh, du hast recht. Ja, na, hör mal. Film-Podcast über Mysterien. Ich habe den Publikum gerade verfehlt. Hahaha.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Nein, ich erinnere mich nicht an Stargate. Du bist in Ordnung. Was mir interessant ist an diesen Namen ist, dass sie so mundan aussehen. Wie die Dinge, die du aus dem Fenster deines Wohnraums sehen kannst. Die Hauptstraße einer Straße. Grillflamme aus einem Barbecue. Der Sonnenstrahl durch die Blinden. Ich meine, du würdest es vielleicht Wallpaint oder Gum-Chew nennen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Wenn du Grillflame siehst, denkst du dir, vielleicht ist das nur Burger King, der einen neuen Patty arbeitet. Ich schaue mir das nicht an. Die Forschung fokussierte sich primär auf, wie ich schon sagte, remote Viewing. Wenn ihr das noch nicht gehört habt, ist es die parapsychologische Fähigkeit, Events, Locations und Menschen zu sehen oder zu erleben, von einer bemerkenswerten Distanz.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und diese Distanzen können von nur einem Raum entfernt bis auf die andere Seite der Welt und manchmal auch über das Sonnensystem gehen. Und wir sprechen über ein Beispiel, das nur das macht am Ende. ScanNate betrifft spezifisch Remote Viewing mit Koordinaten. Und es gibt verschiedene Arten von Remote Viewing. Wir kategorisieren diese, sobald wir durch die Geschichte von Stargate Project durchgehen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber in vielen Fällen würde der Zuschauer die Koordinaten geben und gefragt werden, was sie auf der anderen Seite gesehen haben. In anderen Fällen wurde der Zuschauer gefragt, um Zeichnungen zu beschreiben, die ihnen außer Auge gekommen sind. Das ist eine viel einfacher, vielleicht einfacher Art und Weise, es zu testen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ich halte eine Karte auf, du kannst nicht sehen, was da drin ist, aber ich frage dich, kannst du die Form sehen, kannst du die Farbe sehen, beschreibe es, diese Art von Dingen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
So in an example of this there was a control subject one time that was given a priming word in this case they were given the word bunches and so this person hears that word and they think on their own of what they want to draw and so they draw a picture of grapes now this is real this removes any bias of knowledge right the tester can't accidentally prime anybody with what the drawing is because instead of giving the drawing themselves they're asking for a control subject to draw whatever they want just based on a random word
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
So then this person would draw, in this case the grapes, and then in another room blocked off from all acoustics, electricity, anything, any sound, right? A test subject was then attempting to guess what was drawn on that paper. In this case, it was a man named Uri Geller, and we'll talk about him more in a second. But he said that he described what he was seeing as, quote, drops of water.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
und dann sah er blaue Zirkel, bevor er sich dann auf die Idee von Gräbern konzentriert. Und so habe ich ein Bild für dich jetzt, das die Bildungen zeigt, sowohl von der Kontrolle auf der linken Seite und von Juri's Bildung auf der rechten Seite. Wenn du das jetzt schauen möchtest. Task Force, das wird auf allen unseren Socials auf RedWebPod erhältlich sein.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Mhm. Was interessant ist, ist, dass es ungefähr die gleiche Form ist. Ich meine, es sind nur ein paar Gräber und wie soll man sie ausdrahen? Aber die Stemme geht nach rechts und sie fühlen sich unheimlich bekannt. Ja. Nun, natürlich, das könnte ein Unfall sein oder was auch immer.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber in diesem Fall hat die Person auf der linken Seite nur die Worten Bunches gegeben und dann haben sie diese Gräber gedreht. Und dann irgendwo anders hätte diese Person irgendwas gedraht. Und es passiert einfach so, dass sie eine sehr ähnliche Reihe von Gräbern gedreht hat, via remote Viewing. Das ist wirklich, wirklich ähnlich. Ja, das ist wild. Ja, das ist, was sie studieren wollen.
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Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Sie versuchen zu sehen, ob es etwas dazu gibt, wenn es irgendein Phänomen gibt, wo man eigentlich remote View kann. Manche Leute sprechen über gemeinsames Bewusstsein, all diese Sachen. Aber die Regierung hofft, diese Art von remote Viewing als eine mächtige Spionage-Taktik im Gegenteil zu nutzen.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Aber auch für Dinge wie Konterintelligenz oder Konternarkotik, all diese Dinge, die in diesem Zeitpunkt wichtig gewesen wären. So, across the Stargate projects there were three objectives. Operations, research and development and foreign assessment.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Imagine the lack of risk and lives saved that one could have by just, if you could close your eyes, enter a state and then be able to see your enemy's state in motion. What are they building? What are they researching? What's happening on the ground? All the way from the safety of your home. Uff, that's too much power. It's a lot of power, but it seems very compelling. A lot of attraction to that.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
So in their continued study on remote viewing, the government reached out to two individuals. Ingo Swann, who was a Vietnam vet and an artist who underwent various parapsychological research efforts. He's also a psychic and an author.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
And then you have Yuri Geller, the person who I just mentioned, a famous self-proclaimed psychic who became famous for supposedly bending spoons with his mind on television. Auch bekannt als Illusionist, Magiker und TV-Personalität. Mit diesen beiden studierten sie den Potenzial von Remote Viewing.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und wenn die normalen Methoden von Spionage nicht erfolgreich waren, würden die Stargate-Psychen Missions versuchen. Also hohe Höhe Flugzeuge, Satelliten-Imagerie. Wenn diese Dinge verletzten oder wenn Unterkopf-Agenten verletzten, um Intel rauszuholen, würden sie zu diesen Psychen zurückkehren und sagen, kannst du die Lücken des Wissens füllen?
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Kannst du dein Gehirn in den Staat bringen und es da rüber senden? Und wir werden einige dieser Erfolge später erläutern. Aber an seinem Peak hatte Stargate 22 Psychiker, die für ihn arbeiteten. Manche waren Militärmitglieder und andere waren Zivilisten.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, ich weiß, dass es viele illusionistische Magie gibt, die man machen kann, wenn Leute, so zu sprechen, zu den Toten sprechen, richtig? Und sie versuchen, die Nachläufe zu erreichen. Es gibt viele Tricks, die man machen kann. Also denke ich nur, ich frage mich, wie das Prozess war, Leute zu testen, um zu sehen, ob sie die Karten, die sie nicht sehen konnten, akkurat lesen können.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Ja, wenn du über 50 Jahre nach jetzt denkst, werden wir über den Projekt Brainstellung hören. Und es wird darüber gesprochen, wie wir AI in unsere Neuronen integrieren können und solche Dinge. Aber es ist immer interessant, zurückzukommen. Wir haben MK-Ultra entdeckt. Wir haben über den Projekt Blue Book gesprochen. Wir haben über all die Arten von Projekten X, Y und Z gesprochen.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und dann würde jemand, der irgendeine Art von Inklusion hatte, sagen, na gut, lass uns einfach diese Person hirten. Wir bekommen ein paar Leute und dann sehen wir, ob es irgendwelche Gemeinschaften gibt zwischen diesen individuellen Weil ich mir vorstelle, dass sie alle in ihren eigenen Räumen arbeiten, in ihren eigenen Weinen und keine Noten teilen.
Red Web
Stargate Project | Did the CIA Train Psychic Spies?
Und wenn sie dann sagen, dass 5 aus den 22 gesagt haben, dass es einen neuen Tank gibt, der aus XYZ City kommt, dann ist das vielleicht etwas, was noch zu tun hat.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But yes, this is going to be a twisty turny one. We're going to go into the political background to give you all the information necessary to get that context and that groundwork laid. We'll talk about the scene of the crime, what few witnesses were there, but people did see some stuff. And then, of course, we're going to follow up with some of the key suspects.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
That is truly upsetting and terrifying. Yeah.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Right. After 10 years, they came out of hiding and picked up with the same MO. You know, they had to scratch that itch. That would be. deeply unsettling. I don't know if I would want to know that information, but part of me kind of would. Right, that's how it goes.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But if you told me, I wouldn't be upset. Yeah, but tell me though. I mean, we talked about this in the Paula Jean Weldon case, and I feel like we've brought it up since then.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Her disappearance was part of potentially four or five other disappearances in that area. And one of the theories was just a serial killer that never got caught and it never got labeled a serial killer. So we've gotten very close to that idea.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
This reeks to me instinctively as a political unrest, deeply upset, and then having access to a weapon that can harm people and having, you know, it seems like maybe a crime of opportunity. And I do want to say that at the time we'll, we'll dive into all these details, but this is also what police were believing that this wasn't super premeditated and that this might've been more opportunistic.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
yeah right so that's kind of where the police is headed is at but of course we're going to talk about all sorts of potential political conspiracies particular suspects but vaguely we don't have like specific names per se
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Of course, we're not going to cover 10,000 people or 134 full confessions, but some of the key suspects and conspiracies that have arisen from this case. I will say police feel like they have closure on this one, but many people believe that it is one of these other theories, that it isn't fully answered, and it has since gone discussed for the many decades since.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
With that said, let's dive into the first theory. Very soon after the murder, conspiracy theories began emerging, pointing to South Africa's involvement. The motive? Well, just a week before he was killed, Palme held a speech against apartheid and gave multiple calls to action suggesting economic sanctions and denying oil supply to South Africa.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Later, in 1996, former apartheid police officer Eugene de Kock actually told the South African Supreme Court that the PKK had been involved in the assassination because he, quote, strongly opposed the apartheid regime and Sweden made substantial contributions to the ANC, end quote, which is the African National Congress.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And so immediately we have a hotbed, politically speaking, international here.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
kind of again we're connecting some dots and then you have somebody in the mid 90s coming forward saying listen i was a former officer in the area and i know that there is this uh and we'll talk about the pkk um the terrorist group in the next theory a little bit more uh but he was one of the first people to label them a terrorist group and so there's a lot of tensions that come with that and
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Especially with this guy saying, because of his strong opposition to it and his contributions to the other side of that conversation, maybe that's why, you know, as he says, Eugene de Kock, he says that or claims that South Africa sent a spy to assassinate Palme. Though when he was questioned, this is an anonymous spy now, this spy was questioned and they themselves denied this.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But as we dive in, as always, I want to give a huge thank you and shout out to our direct supporters over at redwebpod.com. Join the task force today. Support us directly going to that website. But we have Haley Long, who is a buff scientist, that rippling vascular brain. You know, they're doing their hammer curls with those beakers filled with lead, liquid lead. We also have the Squonks.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So there is some information being withheld but this is as much as we can kind of pull out.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
He said, she said, can a lie detector actually be provable? Is it 100% accurate? Certainly not. Can you believe this person versus that person? Or can this theory simply exist to continue to heighten tensions, right? Could it serve other motivations, right?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Now, multiple officers or individuals involved in the apartheid were named as the killer, though no evidence was found to prove any of those claims or any of those individuals. So ultimately, the Swedish government could not find any real proof of South Africa's involvement, leaving us with an interesting theory. And I would say lots of finger pointing within that theory.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So it could be old apartheid officers turning on one another, having changes of heart. There's a lot of other motives within this. But the fact is the Swedish government saying we looked into this. We don't believe that this is the theory, but it's still a prominent one. But that takes us now a little bit into this next theory. And this was another one of those early on theories.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So I do appreciate that when sometimes when you look back over the decades, people start to go, oh, what about this and that? You learn some stuff, you add some stuff. But what's always interesting is theories of the moment, right out of the gate after these crimes happen. Who are the suspects? What is the zeitgeist of the 80s thinking, right?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So this was another one of those early theories, and it involved the Kurdish Workers Party, the PKK, and it said that basically they were responsible for this assassination. So the PKK, to give more context to the previous theory, are a militant political organization, and at this time were fighting with Turkey for a Kurdish state and against forced assimilation.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
A lot of political nuance, I have to admit my ignorance on the matter, but I'm kind of simplifying something very complex. And ultimately, how does this involve Palme? Well, his administration was among the first to label the PKK as a terrorist group, and many other countries followed in labeling the PKK as terrorists in later decades.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
In 1971, kind of going back in time a little bit here, multiple Kurds living in Sweden were extradited for supposed connections to the PKK. And then in 2001, even decades after this crime, Swedish police interviewed a PKK leader, Abdullah Ercalan, from prison, and he suggested himself that a Kurdish rebel could have killed Palme on that night.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Sendin Sakik was another leader of the PKK, and he claimed that Öcalan had ordered the assassination himself. That lends some credence to the idea that there's some involvement here. But again, despite what feels like very tangible, very close clues that might lead to something, Swedish investigators never found any concrete evidence to confirm this theory.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Suffice to say, we have a situation where there's yet another international group that Palme issues a dissenting opinion on, and so that is the exciting moment where people are going, ah, this must be the group then too, because he clearly had no love for this group and they had shown that they may be capable of it, but nothing materialized.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Fear them or be feared by them. I don't know. Gavin Day, Zachary Orr, and Heather Stahlcup, just to name a few. And this episode is actually suggested by an anonymous Task Force member. But yeah, like I said, support us directly at redwebpod.com. We just released an exclusive gameplay last week. Lots of other benefits over there if you want to check it out.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
This is where things start to get a little more interesting. We move away from the international landscape into more specific individuals. There was an individual that was investigated by police simply known at the time as the 33 year old. And this is how the news outlets reported on this person, the 33 year old. And the name of this person was later revealed to be Victor Gunnarsson.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So Gunnarsson was a right wing activist connected to some extremist groups. The day after the assassination, there was actually a witness that contacted police about a man that she met in a coffee shop just a few blocks away from this crime. who seemed to be making open yet violent comments about Palme. So we have reports now coming in from the area. Hey, there's somebody I'm overhearing.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
The way they're talking, I don't have any quotes, but it sounds like violent comments about this now victim. Other witnesses claimed that he said, quote, blood will flow, end quote, because of Olaf, according to Swedish news outlet SVT.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So there's not much else to say about this individual except for what people are reporting that he's saying and the fact that politically speaking, he's on the other side and he's quite active in that regard. In fact, he's with some of the extremist groups. But early on, he was arrested and then released.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
He was interviewed many times, but no concrete evidence was ever uncovered around Victor Gunnarsson, a.k.a. the 33 year old.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Absolutely. I mean, we feel like we get close, but honestly, not even at all. I heard him say something... Great. Great. We can't just arrest a person because they're saying some things and also happen to be on the other side, even if it's an extremist group. You got it. It's a violent crime. We need something more substantial.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And again, out of all the many conspiracies and theories, this is the last major one we're going to discuss. And this is the idea of the Scandia Man. So, in 2018, an article from Swedish magazine Filter by Thomas Pedersen theorized that a graphic designer named Stig Engström was the sole assassin for this crime.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Engström openly disliked Palme, so bad start here, but the day after the murder he told police and the media that he was the first witness to arrive at the scene of the crime. News outlets then nicknamed Engstrom the Scandia Man, and he was very vocal to them about his supposed involvement in the case.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Engstrom had left his job at the Scandia Insurance Agency where he got his nickname, of course, and it turns out that it was very close to the murder scene. He claimed that he happened to bond the body when he exited the gate of his building. And one question comes to mind. I don't know the hours of Scandia Insurance Agency, but you're leaving work at 1121 p.m.?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And of course, store.redwebpod.com, another way to support us directly. I'm wearing one of our Task Force Access shirts. And then, of course, you can review us wherever you listen to it. But I want to dive in. I'm so eager for this nebulous winding case. So, Olof Palme was the prime minister of Sweden twice in his life.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
That doesn't seem to connect the right dots, right?
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And, you know... Maybe you're burning the midnight oil, crossing some T's, dotting some I's, but... I doubt it's the one in a million that loves, you know, insurance.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
It's very suspicious and it smells an awful lot like there is that type of person in a lot of these true crime cases that comes forward flaunting all this information that somehow they know. Oh, I was at the scene. I was a witness. I know these things. But it always smells so much like they're the ones that did it. You know so much because you're too close because you did it. Right? Right.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
That's what it starts to feel like anyway. Yeah. So coming back now to his statements, what he's saying about the case, he claimed that he tried to help save Olaf Palma at that time. Crime happened. Maybe he doesn't even know who he is, but someone's down on the ground after a gunshot. He's there on the scene trying to help, he says.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Now, he was considered a suspect initially, right out the gate at that time, since he was supposedly, again, first on the scene and had a strong dislike for Palma. Police theorized that the murder then would not have been premeditated. Perhaps this was just a crime of opportunity. because this is where he worked and maybe he happened to leave work and oh my God, maybe I'm in a heated moment.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Maybe I have this opportunity to do something I didn't even think about, right? Just had a gun on them, I guess. You never know what happens in insurance, baby. You know, it's the most exciting industry you could be in. And maybe that's why he's got the, you know, Indiana Jones was a teacher, a professor.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Never questioned the tombs and catacombs that this man might have been tumbling through.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So you feel full, focused, and ready for your day.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Despite his conservative upbringing, Palme was a leftist, and he joined the Social Democratic Party where he was mentored by Prime Minister Tage Erlander, who served from 1946 to 1969. This is where I
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Here's the thing, as with many of the other suspects, police could not find any evidence to continue investigating him. So this is where things get a little wibbly wobbly, timey wimey. So early on, he's brought in kind of as a suspect. He's later released on the fact that they don't have much evidence to go off of.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And then in 2018, he's brought back onto the table as a suspect after Thomas Peterson's article in the Swedish magazine Filter. So that's where I started. Because like, as we are sitting here in 2025, like he's on the table. But at the time, he was kind of released of that. They're like, I'm not seeing anything
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But anyway, in 1992, actually, Engstrom visited the home of journalist Jan Arvidson to talk about his supposed experience. So he told Arvidson that he believed this was a crime of opportunity. He's kind of agreeing with the police here. And that if he were the killer, ooh, this is an interesting hypothetical for a suspect to take. If I was the killer.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Right. In our little novel or a little book hand guide, we have a whole chapter on why you shouldn't say if I hypothetically speaking was the killer. Exactly. So here's what he said. Quote, I personally would have used a more versatile weapon, a smaller caliber. End quote. Doesn't really expand on that. And maybe he thinks again, let's presume guilt for a second.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Maybe he thinks this will make me look innocent, even though I'm a suspect, because I would have used something else. I my mind would have been elsewhere. Presuming innocence, that's a strange thing to be saying. That's how that works. Yeah, yeah.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Interestingly, there were no other witnesses that could definitively remember him, of all these people seen at the crime, him being at the scene, let alone in the manner that he described, right? Again, he's the first to arrive at the crime scene itself. He's trying to help Olaf. Yes, it's dark.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Maybe they can't identify him specifically, but his story's not lining up with the dozen or so people that then saw the aftermath. I didn't see anybody bend down and try to help him out, right?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
give my very casual but honest caveat there's going to be a lot of swedish words in this episode and i'm gonna i'm gonna hold on and grip for dear life as the swedish task force reacts to this but i'm gonna do my best there's some you guys got some long words i'll just be honest
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So... Maybe he just made this all up.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
You got your attention, but on the other side of that transaction is just misdirection and fumbling up all the evidence. Like, get out of here, dude. Just shoo him out. Just shoo him out.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
get on now that reminds me and i want to drop this here in the episode because task force i've really been noodling on this one and fredo this will obviously be a surprise to you but like we covered the i-70 killer the strangler and like i believe there's a docuseries now on hulu talking about the fox hollow killings and one of the people in that episode that we talked about this is before that docuseries came out i think it came out weeks after
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
we gave the anonymous name that he had the pseudonym now i think it's mark goodyear maybe that's the name but there's a guy the survivor right the one survivor from that case is now in that docuseries and he's doing too much like he is a suspect and he's doing all this like giving information but suddenly now you seem to have too much information and people are starting to think that now you're a suspect were you in on this and is this why you survived like
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
it's one again it's just another vivid example of people doing too much getting involved and wanting attention he even says in the episode he's like i want to know what your viewers think of me do they think i'm the guy that did it do they think i'm an innocent guy that got away do they think i i'm a survivor what do they think and then he's got this like uneasy laugh to him it's just it just seems like it's clear as day this person is just he wants attention
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Yeah, I want to reiterate, Thomas Peterson's article is what brought Angstrom back into the investigation in 2018. And now, jumping forward a few years, I believe this was 2020, according to BBC, prosecutors felt his statements raised red flags and were actually inconsistent. When you really looked across his multiple interviews and interrogations, what have you, there were inconsistencies.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Now, Palme was a member of parliament and eventually became prime minister, as I indicated, but he was the successor directly to Erlander in 1969 before his second four-year term began later in 1982. As you can imagine, Palme's ideas were very popular with the left and very unpopular with the right in a nation whose political divide was quite contentious at the time.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And of course, we're spotting red flags everywhere. Whether he's lying to put himself into it or he's actually a part of this as the criminal. Red flags. Chief State Prosecutor Kreister Peterson, which is a different Peterson, this one with a K, the previous one with a CH, claimed in a June 2020 press conference that Engstrom was the most likely suspect.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
However, this claim was made after his death and his death was back in the year 2000. So there's really, unfortunately, no way to really confirm this claim.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Peterson claimed that he has evidence for this and he can prove this, but he has never proven it publicly, which is another recent frustration we've had on this show where people are like, I can prove this fundamentally, but I will tell someone and they will swear their silence and it will be anonymous. Yeah. Period.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Yeah, I believe that was Stargate Project with the remote viewing. Or maybe, who knows, my brain might have been scrambled after talking about that one. We got a CIA agent just going, stirring my brain up with their strong mind. Ultimately, though, Peterson said, quote, how he acted was how we believe the murderer would have acted.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And, quote, we've come as far as we're able to come when it comes to a suspect, end quote. So putting it in less confusing terms, it sounds like after all the possible evidence, after all the possible interviews, interrogations, investigation, this is as far I feel or they feel that they're able to come on this particular investigation.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
It will probably remain unsolved, but it sounds like Peterson thinks he's got the answer and that's as good as it's going to get, unfortunately. Yeah.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Yeah. You drop one of those little hologram marbles on the floor and it goes, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and then it just shows you.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So to close this whole thing out, police have since closed this case. It doesn't mean that there's an answer, but they believe, I feel, that as much as they're going to find has been found, and so they have since closed the case. However, many consider this assassination to be firmly unsolved, right? Yeah.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Talking about Lisbeth Palm, the wife who survived the assassination, she firmly believed that Christer Peterson, who I mentioned quite early on, the one who borrowed the drug dealer's gun, that he was the one who killed Olaf. And she believed this all the way up until her death in 2018. This is the person I believe that she identified in a lineup.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And then, of course, you have the chief state prosecutor, Kreister Peterson, a different Kreister Peterson, ironically, similar, similar name, that firmly believes that Engstrom was the one that did this. The insurance agent, the person who said he worked in the area and left work, that he was the one that did this.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But interestingly, in June of 2020, there was a poll done by SVD, a Swedish news source, that showed that only 20% of the people that responded to that particular poll in the area
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
believed that angstrom was the killer so the public is really divided on angstrom at least saying 80 don't think it's him so ultimately regardless it it points to the public's agreement that we don't really know what happened we don't know who it is there's some interesting dots to connect but forever this might be a cold case it's gonna be a cold dude everyone believes it's some other person like yeah
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
In fact, after his first term, the Social Democratic Party was not in power for the first time since 1936. So this was a moment of change, a lot of turmoil between opinions. And so it's a heated moment for an assassination to take place in, as you can imagine. Powder keg for conspiracy theories to come out of this. So his foreign policy was especially divisive.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
I swear to God, Predator 2, there was a revolver in that spaceship.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
He had a flintlock pistol from the 1700s. You got it from the dude in Prey.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Okay, I love this universe. I love it building. Prey was great. I really enjoyed that one.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
All right, well, as you can tell, Task Force, we love ourselves some good movies. All sorts of movies. Recently, we've covered a heist movie. I don't know if that's out yet, but I'm so excited we finally covered Inside Man. We recorded that today. Oh, great movie. So what's coming along? Maybe that's this week's episode. We don't know yet.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But lots of movies covered over on the Patreon page, redwebpod.com. Fredo hosts the Movie Club podcast. Fredo, want to break it down a little bit?
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
From classic to crap, we got to get them all. There's some good laughs in there, but then there's some really good, just good movies that we've covered. Oh, yes. And of course, there's always stuff going on. To thank you all for your direct support at redwebpod.com. It is the number one way to support us, truly. It is the most stable form of income. It is the greatest form of income we have.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
It's why we're able to do this podcast. So we have like monthly gameplays on there now. We also do monthly bonus show called Break Room. So if you want to know more about us as individuals, the entire team, including Christian and Jillian, we talk about what's going on in our lives. We hang out with you guys.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
You can listen to that episode, get recorded live every month and be part of the conversation. And of course, we upload that later for you guys to enjoy. But Lots happening over there. Store discounts. Just like right now, earlier this month, we wrapped up the Mystery Madness. Just a lot of ways to engage with you guys, hear from you all, the Discord where you can theorize.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But of course, if you're already a Task Force member, you can support us freely by reviewing us. Wherever you listen to podcasts that boosts us in the algorithm, surfaces us to new people who might like mysteries and want to hear what we're talking about and expand the community a little bit.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Absolutely. All right. And with that said, Fredo, I'll see you right back here next Monday for yet another mystery.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
For example, he spoke out against the Vietnam War, he supported many liberation movements, and interestingly, he was a critic of both the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Again, I mention all this because it allows us to lay a foundation of understanding, and some of these ideas will come up in more detail when we cover the suspects and the theories behind this case.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Now on February 28th, let's get into the situation. 1986, Palme took his family to the movie theater in the capital city of Stockholm to watch the Mozart Brothers. Interestingly, this was a last minute decision, and as such, Palme had already dismissed his bodyguards for the day, initially planning to turn in for the evening. I want to say that it does stand out as an interesting moment.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
He got rid of the bodyguards and now he's kind of unguarded, but this wasn't particularly unusual as Paul May historically preferred going without his guards to personal events.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
A hundred percent. Yeah. You know, when you're going to a little, a dine with the lady, a little theater with the family, you don't want some burly guys in all darked out suits, like, you know, standing with their arms crossed behind you. Right. It's a mood killer, you know? Yeah.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the paranormal. I am your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So Hina's wife, Lisbeth, planned on meeting their son and his girlfriend at the theater at roughly 9pm, so we have the parents, the son, and his girlfriend. They then left the theater two hours later after the movie, I presume, at around 11pm, and the couples parted ways officially that evening. at 1115 p.m.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
At this point, Olaf and Lisbeth Palm are once again by themselves, and they are walking south on Sviavägen, a major street towards the train station is where they're headed. Along the way, they stop to look at things in the shop windows. They cross the street to walk down on the other side of the street. It's one of those very busy streets, even though it's late.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
It's just one of the primary streets of Stockholm. A few minutes later, at 11.21pm, two shots rang out as someone on the street first shot Olaf, and then secondly, Lisbeth from behind. Witnesses contacted emergency services immediately, but as luck would have it, an ambulance actually was already going down that way, past that scene of the crime, just four minutes later, with nobody in it.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And so, at 11.25pm, this ambulance picked them up and immediately started for Sabatsber Hospital. calling ahead to inform the hospital that the Prime Minister was bleeding to death and fatally wounded. At 12.06 AM, Olaf was pronounced dead upon his arrival. Lisbeth, however, survived the shooting as the bullet simply grazed her back, obviously wounding her, injuring her, but she survived.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And this was because she was attempting to help Olaf. He had collapsed. She bent over to kind of see what was wrong to help him out. And that, fortunately, I would say maybe caused the bullet to just graze along her back. Oh, wow. So this is the background, the crime. Anything stand out to you so far before we head into the investigation of this particular case?
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Sure. I mean, especially since... This is years after him being in parliament. He had already served one year or one term as the prime minister. Many years go by. This is his second term now. And so, yeah, I can imagine a sense of security, even in a heightened political environment.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
One doesn't assume an assassination is around every corner, nor do you want to live in a world where you have to think that way. I digress. So this is what happened. This is the backdrop of this crime. And as luck would have it, according to the Investigation Committee report, about 12 people directly witnessed this assassination that night.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
However, only two of them saw the crime in its entirety, meaning that they happened to be looking at this couple as they were walking down the street. Maybe they knew them. Maybe they recognized them or not. So they saw the moments leading up to and after the shots. So only two people saw everything. Of course, once the shots were fired, about 10 other people drew their attention. Right.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
What is that? What's happening? So witnesses claimed that the perpetrator was between 30 and 50 years old, roughly 180 to 185 centimeters tall and wore a dark coat. So I'll convert it for you guys here in America. That's about 5'11 to 6'1, a pretty succinct height. As far as 30 to 50 years, it's a pretty widespread. It was a dark evening.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
I've Mr. Miyagi'd you well over these four and a half years. Yep. Yes, indeed. You prepared me. A lot of rabbit holes, a lot of conspiracies, a lot of things to uncover. It's a huge case. I want to jump the gun on this one to kind of really... I mean, it's a prime minister of Sweden, so you imagine it's going to be...
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
And this lack of, as you can imagine, reliable description just casts an extremely wide net for suspects. And as I always like to say, it lays that foundation for people to want to fill in the gaps. We don't know much. So let's just kind of like, it could be this. It could be that. It could be a lot.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
On one of Stockholm's busiest streets, Sweden's prime minister was gunned down after a night at the movies. What followed was one of the largest investigations in Europe's history involving conspiracy theories of spies, political enemies, and foreign governments. Today, we uncover the assassination of Olof Palme. This is Red Web.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Despite the lack of clear visual, we don't know what sex they were. We don't know what their face looked like. We don't have any other descriptors. But despite that, all witnesses agreed that the killer escaped towards Tunnelgatan, doing my best here, Sweden, and then ran up the stairs to another street. We need a nickname. Sweden, we need a nickname on this one. Malmvillnadsgatan.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Malmvillnadsgatan. Malmvillnadsgatan. I'm gonna leave it all in. Something like that.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
I think Gatan at the end, and I'm putting a French twang on it. I think that means street. So it's, you know, we got this. But basically whoever did this, the perpetrator escaped towards street A and then ran up the stairs towards yet another street. And so this is what the scene is laid out as. In addition to the previous witnesses, another dozen suspects saw events surrounding the crime.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So the before and the after. And so this is stuff that the investigators can kind of piece together. Okay, you're saying this, this is where that red web is drawn on the conspiracy board, right? So, apparently, the Svea Court of Appeal found that the lighting of the scene, frustratingly, in particular the lighting from the store that they were nearby, created a backlight effect, right?
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So if I had a light behind me instead of in front of me, it would create that, you know, anonymous silhouetting. And so it made it nearly impossible, I don't know if it was planned, for anyone to see the killer's face or any of those details, which is why we don't have them.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
A little cheat code. I mean, it's already nighttime, you know?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But they're away from a streetlight. They're backlit from a local store.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Right, right. I'm going to wait until they happen to walk this way and happen to go by this store with its light on at 11.20 p.m. Exactly. So talking about the Swedish legal system, there are three levels of courts. You have the district, which is the local or general, the appellates, which is the appeals level, and then the supreme in order of increasing authority and importance.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But fun fact, like it's worth mentioning, this case was so large, investigators interrogated over 10,000 people. And Fredo, you know this one. We had 134 confessions out of the woodwork over the years. So who knows what comes out of this?
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
The appellate courts review decisions made by the lower courts. This was the sphere court of appeal, which would be that middle tier there. So the killer likely used, coming back to the scene, a .357 Magnum revolver, possibly a Smith & Wesson based on the bullets found at the scene of the crime.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
The Smith & Wesson was the most accessible and widely used revolver that fired this caliber, hence why police believe that this was the particular brand used to fire the .357 caliber.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
That's what I hear. Yeah. I don't want to... Listen, I feel like you put all the knowledge together from all of our episodes and you end up with a terrible how-to, you know? Be backlit. Grab a revolver. Wait till 1120 at the local store. This is not a how-to. It's not a how-to.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
reliable just factually speaking less and least likely to jam now that is something that's common but right it's not a magnum or a clip or what have you that you know scrolls the bullets up it is instead you know what you see dirty harry do or anybody playing the that that whatever the game's called where you spin the barrel you click it there it is
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
But again, yes, so maybe more reliable, but also this type of gun does not leave behind a cartridge, so police could not use that to track down the weapon itself.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
From here, the police searched for revolvers that had been reported as stolen. That's a brilliant move when you don't have much else to go on. Try to find a similar weapon that is suddenly MIA. One of these guns actually led to a drug dealer who claimed that he lent the gun to a man named Krister Pedersen, two months before the assassination.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So Pedersen had a long record, including manslaughter, and so it's looking pretty, hey, maybe we got this guy. Police then accused him of the murder and Lisbeth Palme actually picked him out of a lineup. So when several suspects were in front of her, this is the man that she pointed to. Now, eventually Pedersen confessed to the crime and was sentenced to life in prison in 1988.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
So, boom, open closed case, it seems like we got him. However, here we go.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
I can't fully understand it. Like, listen, I understand if you didn't like him politically speaking. But get yourself out of the investigation, clogging up the pipes with your hairy mess of a, I did it. I did it. My buddy, John, he did it. Yeah.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Wrong type of fame, man. Exactly. Start doing some lip syncs and dances on TikTok and we'll see you in a few months, you know, just like something else. Yeah. Could you imagine how many would have been serial killers or just huge dancers on TikTok, you know? So here's the thing, right? As you know, it's coming. A few months after his imprisonment, Peterson appealed and retracted his confession.
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Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Put my name on it. I'm out here. I did it.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
His appeal was actually accepted, since the only evidence was Lisbeth choosing him in the lineup. Police never found the gun that supposedly connected him to this crime. So that gun that he borrowed from a drug dealer that went missing was never found again. And so really there's no evidence here other than his confession and kind of his rap sheet. He's killed before, it sounds like.
Red Web
Assassination of Olof Palme | Who Killed the Swedish Prime Minister?
Now, as I indicated earlier, frustratingly, laying that groundwork for conspiracy theories and suspects galore is the fact that this very large investigation featured 10,000 interviews, so many different people, 134 of which confessed to the crime. But as you can imagine, the reason we're here today is because the killer was never definitively found.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
As we speak. Natürlich, es werden schreckliche Erfahrungen überall vorhanden sein, du weißt, große-brainige Individuen, die Gemüse zusammenbringen, wie du sagst, die nicht zusammengebracht werden sollten, und dann ein paar Leute krempeln und dann sehen, was passiert. Du bist auf etwas.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Yeah, that's kind of unsettling when the expert in the room is somebody you need to rely on to figure out this kind of spooky situation and they don't have that answer. And it's not because they don't know, but sometimes it's because it could be a dozen things. Right. Some worse than the others.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But glad you got that figured out, because I would have sat there and been like, well, the doctors don't know, maybe I'm sort of, maybe I'm impregnated by some sort of micro-alien. And, you know, maybe it's got a six-year ingestment period. And so soon your legs are going to be kind of dripping with like little alien worms that are going to come out of your legs.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, das ist so, na gut, zumindest hast du Antworten. Dieser ist noch nicht geschlossen. Kannst du dir vorstellen, du hattest eine chronische Krankheit mit hübschen Beinen und du wusste es einfach nie.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, aber das ist essentiell das Havana-Syndrom. Now I really want to explore some of the investigations and subsequent theories because there are a lot, a lot of different angles, a lot to talk about. And as always, some frustrations along the way.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
I'm not talking about, again, the classic skull going missing in the mail, but I am talking about like people not communicating interdepartmentally, whether it be for classification purposes or whether it just be, I don't know, just bad communication. We'll get into all of it. So, we're gonna start first in 2017.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
The United States State Department concluded that those affected by the initial symptoms were deliberately targeted and attacked by some sort of sound device or were otherwise exposed to something specific that caused these symptoms. Ein sehr breiter und weicher Begriff, aber das ist quasi ihre Hypothese zu Beginn. Aber wie hat es die Familienmitglieder beeinflusst?
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Wenn sie im Raum mit ihnen waren, wenn es mehr ein wirtschaftliches Ding war. Also es ist nicht kontagios, aber wenn sie reisen. Wenn du an einer US-Embassie arbeitest, wirst du dort für mindestens einen Teil der Zeit leben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das ist eine der potenziellen Antworten hier, aber ich werde sehr interessiert sein, weil wir über das Vanus-Syndrom sprechen werden, wie es sich
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And just for the sake of clarity, the State Department is the US federal agency that handles foreign affairs, which is why, of course, they're motivated to dive in on this and try to figure things out. Additionally, the State Department claimed that they did not believe Cuba was responsible for the attacks and that the root cause of the attacks was still being investigated.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
The reason they said that Cuba was dismissed as a potential suspect was due to the lack of evidence, but also because Cuba's government did seem to be in cooperation with the investigation, helping in any way possible, which does seem to indicate that they have nothing to hide.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
However, they did not specify what sort of sound device or what specifically individuals might have been exposed to that would cause such symptoms. Of course, there may be reasons to maintain secrecy here, that they wouldn't just come running to the public with every final detail, especially with the recency of everything, right? This is in 2017, just a year later.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But it does leave this theory feeling more of a hypothesis, a starting ground, rather than a theory which is a little bit more bolstered by facts and evidence. Gehen wir nun zu der Universität Michigan und der Universität Zhejiang. Im März 2018 wurde ein Studium durch beide dieser Universitäten gemacht.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Dieses Studium beendete, dass die Intermodulation-Distortion zwischen Ultrasonen-Signalen von verletzten oder verletzten kubanischen Überwachungsgeräten hervorgehoben wäre und die initialen Geräusche von den Verletzten verursachen würde. So in short, they have a paper about this. I pulled that up and I started reading a little bit.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
got into the zeitgeist where it began and it's very very recent but most of this episode is going to be exploring the investigations and the theories that happened from all these different studies and different angles so i'm curious fredo what your instinct is going to be as we proceed what your gut instinct right now you're on chemicals i'm curious if that's going to change yeah uh i mean look chemicals was my gut instinct obviously there could be some type of
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Their paper discusses how inaudible ultrasonic signals may have kind of essentially interfered with one another and created that intermodulation distortion, otherwise known as like the waves in the air are kind of impeding with one another. So when two waves intersect, Es gibt Distortionen. Manchmal werden die Wälder aneinander eingeführt und ihre Amplität wird größer.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Manchmal verändern sie sich aus, was Geräusche aus den Headphones verändern. Aber im Grunde genommen führte diese Intermodulation-Distortionen an audiblen Signalen, die selbst zu diesen Symptomen führten. Es ist ein sehr technisches Papier, um es zu simplifizieren.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Wir haben darüber geredet bei Ghost Hunts, wenn du... schwere elektromagnetische Signale oder Frequenzen in der Gegend, die oft mit Gefühlen von Angst, manchmal Schmerzen, manchmal Depressionen, manchmal das Gefühl, dass es einen Geister oder eine übernatürliche Entität nebenan gibt.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und wenn du also auf viele Geisterhüter schaust, die versuchen, Dinge zu entdecken und Dinge zu analysieren, wirst du finden, dass sie oft mit alten Elektroniken oder Oder manchmal passiert in den Wänden irgendeine komische elektronische Sache, die man einfach nicht kennt. Und das kann wirklich viel auf den Kopf spielen.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber mit dieser Theorie in mind, möchte ich ein bisschen zurückkommen, weil sie ein bisschen Motivation gehabt haben, diesen Weg runter zu gehen und Dinge auszutesten. Also AP News hat ein Artikel 2017 veröffentlicht, das ein Rekord von dem war, was einige der US-Embassadoren in Havanna gehört haben. In theory, this sound is what caused Havana Syndrome.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
They posted that then online and these researchers were essentially attempting to reverse engineer the source of this sound. And they concluded, by the best means possible, they're saying, hey, if there were... Interessant. Ja, also kommen wir zurück zu diesem Audio-Clip, weil ich möchte, dass du es hören kannst, aber es gibt eine Theorie, die sich mehr auf diese Theorie konzentriert.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
All das heißt also, dass sie versuchen, diesen Geräusch, der veröffentlicht worden ist, zu reversegenieren. Und ich möchte einen Teilnehmer nennen, der dieses Buch mitgearbeitet hat. Universität Michigan, Professor für Computerwissenschaft und Ingenieurarbeit, Kevin Fu. Und er sagt das, Quote,
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
We've demonstrated a scenario in which the harm might have been unintentional, a byproduct of a poorly engineered ultrasonic transmitter that was meant to be covert. A malfunctioning device that was supposed to inaudibly steal information or eavesdrop on conversation with ultrasonic transmission seems more plausible than a sonic weapon.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
That said, our results do not rule out either potential causes. Endquote. So now he's talking about, yes, we think it's spy equipment listening in, but we can't rule out sonic weapons. Now the wrinkle for this particular theory is that it does not explain the other symptoms that followed.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And there was no public confirmation of any malfunctioning or misplaced equipment, though again, that could be classified. Aber dann gibt es noch einen größeren Schmerz für mich. All die anderen internationalen Fälle, wo diese ähnliche Verwaltungsgeräte vorhanden sind. War das überall auf der Welt passiert? In all diesen verschiedenen Orten? Genau. Möglich, aber ich weiß nicht.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Oder arbeiten sie alle mit demselben Spioniergerät? Und dieses Spioniergerät ist in diesem speziellen Weg verwaltet, richtig?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich weiß nicht. Das ist die größte Frage für mich. Wenn es überall auf der Welt passiert, macht es das ein bisschen schwieriger. Aber man, ist es interessant. Es ist wirklich kompensierend.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, ein Teil von mir ist, dass ich nie auf einem wissenschaftlichen Papier sehr aufmerksam bin, um zu einem bestimmten Ergebnis zu kommen. Aber die Tatsache, dass sie vorausschauend gesagt haben, hey, wenn das der Geräusch ist, der das Havana-Syndrom verursacht, werden wir als Computeringenieure die Wege setzen, wie das passieren könnte.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und sie haben gefunden, dass ultrasonische Signale mit einem anderen interferieren können, um diesen Geräusch zu erschaffen. Und es hat einen sehr ähnlichen Profil. Und deshalb denke ich, dass es eine vernünftige Schlussfolgerung ist. Ich glaube nicht, dass sie diese Schlussfolgerung verursacht haben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber ja, ich denke, es ist genauso interessant wie, ich weiß nicht, es fühlt sich wie ein Film an. Richtig, es fühlt sich wirklich an. Aber es fühlt sich auch fast zu gut für die Realität an. Ich weiß nicht, weißt du, aber es ist sehr beeindruckend. Das war's für heute. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Tschüss. Vielen Dank. In exchange for your direct support, we have a slew of extras and exclusives.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Things like the ad-free episode of Red Web every single week. First looks at pilot shows anytime that we have them. For example, we released our video podcast over there first. We have Movie Club that we release every other week. We have a new live show called Break Room where we go behind the mystery, behind the scenes, look at our lives and just hang out with you guys.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
You can come into the live chat in Discord and we have this open dialogue with you guys. We had our first one here in March and it was a lot of fun. We also now will have monthly gaming videos as our bonus video. And we have exclusive discounts at store.redwebpod.com and a whole bunch of other things. And free members also have things to enjoy as well.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
You can get sneak peeks at episodes every single week. You can vote in Mystery Madness. And every now and then we also do some other things to make sure that even as a free member you can stay engaged in supporting our community. Again, thank you all so much for supporting this show over the years. It has been an absolute dream to make our passions, our interest in the unknown, our jobs.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And that is because of you guys. So again, thank you. This is supported by you specifically. So go to redwebpod.com to become an official member of the task force today. And I'll see you back in the mystery. Weiter geht's jetzt. Wir haben die FBI, natürlich, in die Bildung eingegangen und sie haben in 2018 zwei Untersuchungen von zwei einzelnen Divisionen durchgeführt.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Der erste wurde von der Technologie-Operations-Division durchgeführt und dieser war unabhängig. Es fand keine Beweise von sonnigen Angriffen oder Einwanderung von fremden Gegnern. Die zweite Untersuchung wurde von der Behavioral Analysis Unit durchgeführt. Nun, dieses Team hat die vorherigen Interviews und Patientenhistorien von denen, die in Kuba betroffen waren, ausgewählt.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und sie haben beschlossen, dass es ein Fall von massenpsychologischer Krankheit sein könnte. Und wir haben darüber gesprochen. Wir haben darüber gesprochen mit der Tanzflagge.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es ist unser Placebo-Effekt, richtig? Es ist genau das, worüber du sprichst. Im Grunde genommen sagt man, dass die Menschen, die daran beeinflusst wurden, das Hyper-Wissen, das Angst, dass das passieren könnte, psychosomatisch, potenziell, die gleichen Symptome spüren. Und es wurde so verbreitet.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
While mass psychogenic illness does feel like it could absolutely be an answer here, there is a small wrinkle regarding these FBI investigations. So the New Yorker reported in November of 2018 that these investigations might have been hindered due to the CIA's reluctance to reveal the identity of those affected and federal rules regarding the privacy of medical records, right?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Some HIPAA violations. Okay, yeah. The FBI would have only been able to work with so many sources and some of those might have been less accurate than desired because the CIA is holding some of that closer to the chest. And so this might not be as comprehensive of an investigation, hence one being inconclusive and the other kind of relying more on psychogenic illness.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Gehen wir nun zu der nächsten Investition und Theorie-Kombination. Im Januar 2019 haben Biologen aus der Universität von California Berkeley und der Universität von Lincoln Audio-Rekordungen analysiert, die von denen, die in Kuba betroffen sind, gefilmt wurden. Dies ist der gedrehte Audio-Clip, den ich vorhin genannt habe, und jetzt möchte ich darüber sprechen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich werde es dir gerade sagen. Es gibt ein kleines Stück davon. Ja, es ist immer so. You know, and here at Red Web, we're always saying, everything is answered by placebo. And if it's not placebo, it is placebo, because we've broadened the definition. I'm still trying to contact Merriam-Webster to see what we can do about getting that catch-all definition on there.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich möchte, dass Sie sie hören, bevor ich Ihnen erzähle, was ihre sehr präzise Theorie ist. Also gehen Sie weiter. Hört euch zu diesem ersten Geräusch an und wir werden das auch in den Podcast einladen, für alle, die die Taskforce hören. Um es so zu machen, dass es der Geräusch ist, der die Leute schmerzt, werde ich hier ein kleines Ausdruck einladen, in dem Fall, dass ihr es nicht hören möchtet.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Einfach vielleicht 30, 40 Sekunden voran springen. Aber Fredo, geh her und hör dir das erste Video an, das ich dir gesendet habe. Interessant, okay. Du wirst nicht krank werden. Ich höre es auf Loop. Es ist mein Ambience-Geräusch.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Okay, lass uns hören.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Mh, wie wenn du eine Sensitivität zu einem bestimmten Geräusch hast oder so. Ja! Ja, das ist möglich. Weißt du, wie manche Menschen mehr Schmerzen haben als andere. Vielleicht gibt es etwas Auditorium, das Menschen wie Vertigo, ihr inneres Gehirn und all das beeinflusst.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Nun, diese Biologen konkludierten, und hier habe ich noch einen anderen Geräusch für dich, dass der Geräusch in diesen Videos nicht aus einem Art von sonnigem Gerät kam, sondern stattdessen die Geräusche des indischen short-tailten Crickets waren. So go ahead and take a listen to the second sound I sent you. It's a little bit of a YouTube link there. And again, Task Force will put this in here.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And if you want to skip ahead, you can.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Crickets, man, they get into places. You're right. Here in Austin, when it's cricket season, they'll get up in your vents and your walls. It's just, they're everywhere. So, okay.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Yes, it does.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, und warum das Mysterium, wenn das der Fall ist, richtig? Richtig. Ich bin froh, dass du das erwähnt hast, weil das hier der Schmerz ist. Dieser Cricket ist typisch nicht in Kuba gefunden. Und es ist sicher nicht überall auf der Welt, in Europa und alles. Ich kann ein bisschen Gnade geben, weil es am Süden und am Südwesten der Vereinigten Staaten lokal ist.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But you're right, the exploration today is going to be a little bit different structured. I'm going to give you the overview, a crash course on what Havana Syndrome is, when we first noticed it, when it was being reported. And news kind of comes all the way up to this year, 2025, unofficially officially closes. Wow.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
In der Tat, in Florida kann man diese Crickets besonders finden. Und wenn du nach den Florida Keys gehst, Havana ist nur 103 Meilen nach Süden, also über eine Fläche von Wasser, natürlich, aber es ist nahe der Florida Keys, also vielleicht endeten diese Crickets auf einem Boot. Vielleicht haben sie eine Reise gefahren.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Vielleicht hatte ein Counterspy einen Haufen Crickets und hat sie in den Raum gepoppt. Wir wissen es nie, weißt du. Das ist einfach wahr. Bam, Crickets! Crickets! Aber du hast recht, ich denke, du bist auf etwas mit der Idee, wie, naja, was ist mit den internationalen Fällen, weißt du? Und das ist, wo ich mich wieder an den massenpsychogenen Krankheit zurückkehren möchte.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Hatte das angefangen mit etwas mehr auf der Grundlage, wie den Crickets, und dann hat es sich erweitert, weil es die Aufmerksamkeit und die Angst vor anderen Intelligenzagenten weltweit entdeckt hatte? Meine Frage ist... Do our Floridian listeners ever hear these crickets and do they ever feel these kind of symptoms, you know?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Because I've heard a lot of crickets before and certainly don't want to sit in a room with a cricket because it does start to get grating. It's like its own form of torture or something.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Trying to sleep and you just hear the cricket in the room. Yeah. But I guess I am very curious to see like the connection between this sound and the symptoms. But maybe that's just why it's so mysterious is that, you know, this is a really interesting theory.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber für mich ist der größte Unterschied hier vielleicht nicht der Cricket-zu-Symptomen-Pathway oder der Cricket-zu-Symptomen-zu-Massen-Psychogenen-Pathway, richtig? Es ist stattdessen die Anzeige dieses Rekordes. AP News sagt, dass sie dieses Rekord von dem, was einige der US-Embassade-Arbeiter gehört haben, während der unerwünschenden Anzeige, wie sie sie genannt haben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber sonst haben wir nicht wirklich viel Klarheit darüber, woher dieser Geräusch kommt. Ich möchte die Wahrheit nicht beantworten, denn ich kann nicht als Experte auf diesen bestimmten Geräusch ausgehen. Obwohl sie sagen, wenn du den Rekord hörst, bist du sicher, es wird keinen Schaden verursachen. Aber sie haben es dann an die Navy gesendet, um das zu untersuchen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es wurde öffentlich veröffentlichet, um die Leute zu analysieren. Aber vielleicht, nur für den Zweck von... Wenn man darüber nachdenkt, ist vielleicht der größte Unterschied die Anlage, von woher das kam, und ist das wirklich der Geräusch, der die Symptome verursacht hat? Zumindest eine Teil von mir möchte diese Frage stellen, richtig?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber mit dem, weißt du, Crickets sind jetzt hinter uns. Eine sehr interessante Theorie, und vielleicht auch plausibel. Wir haben hier einen anderen Blick. So folgendes. Ein Bericht wurde im Dezember 2019 von der CDU veröffentlicht und an den Kongress gegeben, wurde aber nicht dem Publikum veröffentlicht. In this report, they evaluated 95 people who had reported symptoms of Havana Syndrome.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
However, the report was wholly inconclusive. The CDC reported that they could not identify how or why Havana Syndrome occurred, nor could they identify any effective treatments. So, they cited the lack of data, inconsistencies in medical records, and a large wait time between symptoms and testing that would likely cause inaccurate results. Then, in 2021, neurologist Robert Belot...
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And then normally we talk about the investigations before moving into the theories. But because there's so many different angles of analysis and research happening here, I think what we're going to do is break it down by investigation theory combos and go through seven different angles behind this mysterious case. Oh, okay. I like it. So, we're going to get all into the government stuff.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
was quoted by BuzzFeed, saying, quote, essentially, the CDC is saying they have no idea what happened in Cuba, end quote. Yep. I do gotta appreciate the honesty. Yeah. They're saying, listen, there's holes in the data gathering here.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Right. It's not the bedside manner you want from a doctor. Yes. You know, oh, we don't know. No clue. End of thought, you know? Yeah. Aber die Ehrlichkeit wird genutzt. Egal wie, ich denke, es hilft, die Intrige zu solidifizieren. Das ist der Grund, warum ich denke, dass dieses Thema Stabilität haben wird.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich denke, es gibt relativ hohe Abschlüsse hier, aber es werden immer diejenigen sein, die sagen, wir wissen es nicht. Ich bin nicht sicher und ich werde es nicht theorisieren. Ich meine, das ist einfach die Natur der Dinge. Absolut. Absolut. Und nein, ich liebe eine Antwort so sehr wie die nächste Person. Aber weißt du was? Ich muss einfach analytisch darüber reden. Richtig.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Also zwei weitere Investitionsanalysen-Theorie-Kombos hier. Also in einem Bericht, der im Dezember 2020 eröffnet wurde. Die Nationalen Akademien der Wissenschaften, Technik und Medizin, oder NASEM, N-A-S-E-M, haben einen Bericht über das Havanna-Syndrom eröffnet, nachdem er von der Staatsanwaltschaft verabschiedet wurde.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Sein Bericht bestätigte, dass, während sie zu vier möglichen Gründen für das Syndrom kamen, sein Bericht nicht als konklusiv genommen werden sollte, nachdem, wieder einmal, die Lack von Beweis gegeben wurde. So, in order of likelihood, here are the four possible causes. Radiofrequency energy, toxic chemicals, Fredo, I know you're waiting for it, infectious diseases, and psychological issues.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So the committee concluded that after evaluating the symptoms, they could cite previous studies from Western and Soviet sources that would provide support for the radiofrequencies theory and for that to be the culprit. Many of the symptoms provided by the victims were consistent with radiofrequency effects.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
They looked into whether the chemicals included in the insecticide in the area used in Havana could cause this. And while they might, they ultimately concluded that it was unlikely because of the amount of chemicals necessary to cause this type and this level of reaction would be quite high, therefore very obvious.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And it would probably hit a broader populace than just the very specific dozen US intelligence agents.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
I appreciate the not lack of fully considering everything and also not the high level of confidence on a flimsy, thin, non-backed theory, which we see all the time. Another thing the committee considered was if the Zika virus, if you remember that one, the Zika virus common to the region at the time could produce these symptoms. However, they deemed that it was highly unlikely.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Die Kommitee sagte, dass sie viel mehr Forschung benötigen würde, bevor sie sicherlich sagen könnten, dass es definitiv Radiofrequenzen war, die den direkten Grund für das Havanna-Syndrom führten. Die Kommitee spekulierte auch, dass die Verletzten auch das sogenannte Persistent Postural Perception Dizziness, oder PPPD, erlebt hätten.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
There's some high-level research. And then, of course, you've got people on the Internet just firing from the hip with all sorts of wild theories. Because people just like, there's a lust for the unknown, but there's also this kind of weird love to just fill in answers. I don't know. I've got an answer. Let me just shove that in there. That makes sense. So, we'll talk about all of it.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So this is a functional vestibular disorder that can be triggered by stress, anxiety, vestibular migraines, repeated exposure to motion by like a boat or car, which one might if going to Cuba, head injuries, among other things. Like all of these things can kind of result in this long lasting feeling of dizziness or unsteadiness. It's more than just vertigo.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
PPPT is like, it's almost as if vertigo lasts or has phases for a long chronic period of time. Nicht nur ein kurzes Fenster.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja. Und es kann später im Leben entwickeln. Es kann, wiederum, von allen Arten von Dingen getriggert werden. Stress, Angst, um ein paar zu nennen, die viele Intelligenzagente sicherlich fühlen werden. Und um es zu beenden, haben sie letztendlich herausgefunden, dass sie keine anderen psychologischen Bedingungen ausruhen können, die hier vorhanden sein könnten.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und sie glaubten, dass eine Vielzahl von Bedingungen die Grund dafür wäre, warum jeder Fall von Havana-Syndrom in Symptomen und Seherität variierte. Now to move on to the analysis of media and the media reports leading all the way up to today, here in 2025.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So in 2020 media outlets began to report that both the biden and trump administrations believed that russia was to blame for these outbreaks of havana syndrome however russia has of course denied any involvement in the attacks getting more specific there was a new york times article published in october of 2020 that reported it was widely believed by scientists cia officers and diplomats that the victims brains were damaged using a weapon producing microwave radiation
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Im Jahr 2016 begannen die US-Diplomaten in Kuba, merkwürdige Symptome zu beurteilen. Schmerzbedrohungen, Schmerzen und eine unerklärte Bedeutung in ihren Händen. In der Zeit kamen mehr Fälle, die außerhalb von Kuba verbreitet wurden und die Theorien von high-tech-Waffen und Spionage führten. Heute besuchen wir das unerlässliche Geheimnis der Havanna-Syndrom. Das ist Red Web.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So for added context, in the 1970s and 1980s, the USSR was known to aim microwave beams at the U.S. Embassy. However, the exact motive for the beams was never clear. It's suspected that the intention was perhaps to interfere with U.S. intelligence equipment, any sort of radio signals coming in and out of these U.S.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
embassies they wanted to interfere with, but many think that maybe this microwave beam thing Was auch immer sie benutzen, könnte für die Menschen für Verwirrung, Verletzung ihres Gehirns geplant werden. Allerlei sinnvolle Plots, richtig? Ja. Interessant.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und mit dem in Erinnerung, möchte ich über einen sehr spezifischen Fall sprechen. Also, im Jahr 2024 wurde ein Investitionsprozess durch den Insider durchgeführt, in dem eine Frau namens Joy, die Frau eines US-Embassadeputaten war, die erlebt hat, was als Havanna-Syndrom beurteilt werden könnte. Sie beschrieb eine scharfe, schmerzhafte Runde in ihrem Ohr, die sie schmerzhaft verursacht hatte.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Joy sagte also, dass sie ihr Zuhause ausgesucht hat und sie einen langen, dünnen Mann bei seinem Auto sehen konnte. Und es scheint, als er bemerkte, dass Joy ihn gesehen hatte, fuhr er schmerzhaft in sein Auto und fuhr weg.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und natürlich würde ich es mir leiden, nicht ein paar unserer illustrierten Taskforce-Mitglieder hier bei der HQ zu begrüßen, die uns direkt unterstützt haben. Wir haben zwei Buff-Wissenschaftler, die ich nennen möchte. Wir haben Matt Borosik und Taku Kajiya.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Drei Jahre später wurde Joy eine Foto eines russischen Operators gezeigt und identifizierte ihn als den selben Mann, den sie außerhalb ihres Hauses sah, als sie diese Symptome fühlte. Dieser russische Operator war ein bekanntes Mitglied des sogenannten Unit 29155, einem Verbrechen- und Sabotage-Squad des Moskauer Militärintelligenzsektors.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
The investigation by the insider found that members of the same unit were recognized for their work and advancements in, quote, non-lethal acoustic weapons, end quote, which are essentially radio frequency and sound based energy devices used to alter a victim's brain.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So basically, the media is building a story now, both by experience, but also from claims of scientists, CIA officers and diplomats, that whoever was behind this Das ist furchtbar. Ich hasse das Konzept. Ja, ich mag das Konzept nicht. Nicht einmal. Es ist wie ein...
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Weißt du, wie... I don't know if it's a full-on subtle attack. I don't know, man. I hate the idea that there's a weapon out there that could boil my brain in my sleep. And then I wake up feeling ill. I got a headache. Do I have... Is my IQ lowered? Is my... Ist das das Endziel? Ist es, Panik und Angst zu erzeugen?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Obwohl man die Havanna-Syndrom kreiert, assuming that this theory is the one, right? By creating Havanna-Syndrom in some way, it does strike fear into other agents around the world. Is it more of a psychological attack or are they after that ripple effect? I don't know. All of that is so eerie to me.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Also vielen Dank, dass ihr eure buff-reppelnden Geistern an die Tafel gebracht habt, ein paar Beaker umgebracht, uns zu erlernen, was Chemikalien wirklich sind. Und dann natürlich die mehr und mehr gefeierte Squonks. Da ist es. Gib mir das Liste. Du bist nach ihnen. Gib mir das Liste. So here goes the hit list for this week. It's Zarathustra, Sabrina Hall, and I'm so sorry, Azrael.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, Alter, es ist möglich. Wir wissen es nicht. Es wäre interessant, wenn jemand ihre Konspirationsbücher, alle ihre Fotos und alle die Agenten zurückgezogen hätte. Ja, wenn sie waren, wenn es einen Grund gibt, weshalb diese getötet wurden, als nur irgendwelche US-Embassade-Agenten oder was auch immer. Aber Man, I don't know. Either way, that theory is super, super spooky.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But now jumping to January of 2025, CNN releases an article stating that they had new information that could indicate Havana Syndrome was caused by, quote, a novel weapon, end quote, in the hands of a foreign country. Of course, there weren't many specifics added, as it seems that this is all still very classified. But now you have it all the way up to modern day.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Die Newsmedien zeigen diese mysteriösen, novelten, also sonnigen oder Radio- oder Mikrowellenfrequenz-Waffen. Nun, laut dem Artikel hat eine unbekannte Intelligenzagentur bestätigt, dass es eine Chance gibt, dass diese novelte Waffe seit vielen Jahren in Entwicklung ist und über diesen Zeitraum auf kleine Gruppen von Individuen, wie die von Havana-Syndrom betroffen sind, getestet wird.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So maybe that helps answer your question. Maybe this is just some sort of morbid, unethical experiment on the unwilling just to see what happens. Right. And you know, they go, let's just target an adversary, use it on them and then study what happens. It very well could be. And I don't like, like you were saying earlier, I don't like the sound of that. I don't want to be a lab rat.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
I don't want to be part of some sort of plot. I just, you know, sometimes I just want to kick back, read a comic, play some Marvel Rivals. Yes, sir. You know, put a puzzle together and not be confused and rattled and forced to vomit, you know, with the brain melter. Just kind of live my life cozy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, now that's a lot of intrigue. That's a lot of like, ooh, ah, right?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But this is where I want to kind of deflate the thing a little bit, because I really like to stay grounded. I really want to approach a lot of these mysteries with as much honest conversation, just like layman conversation that you and I have, but also some...
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
analysis and try to really approach it all and whatever we can't address that's where the mysteries lie and that's where my curiosity is peaked but in this very same time frame okay we're talking about all these weapons these novel weapons january 2025 ap news reported on an assessment released by the national intelligence council this was a very long paper i did go read a lot of it came out in december or it was written december 2024 but i believe it became public in january
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
In short, they indicate that five of the seven US intelligence agencies concluded that it's, quote, very unlikely that a foreign adversary was behind the injuries, end quote. So that does still leave the two other agencies that say that a foreign adversary may have developed or even deployed a weapon responsible for these injuries.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But you also have the other five indicating, we don't believe that a foreign adversary is behind this. Einerseits, weißt du, du kannst dich darauf einsteigen. Einerseits kannst du deine Opinionen haben, deine Bedingungen. Du kannst die Mehrheit regieren.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber ich denke, am Ende des Tages, was das eine langfristige, es wird ein langfristiges Geheimnis sein, ist, dass all diese Agenten an der Stelle kommen und sagen, wir haben nicht all die nötige Information. Es gibt nur Löcher in den Berichten und in den Tests. Und so geht meine Meinung, okay, na gut, es gibt zumindest etwas, das sich um die Idee kümmert, dass dies kein gewalttätiger Angriff ist.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Okay, there it is. That's three names. The shout out has become a hit list. Ihr seid alle Future Puddles und ihr wisst es nicht. Ich bin so entschuldigt.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber es ist eine Non-Zero-Chance.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber um zu beenden, möchte ich ein wenig rüberkommen, wo wir jetzt sind. Und das ist nicht eine exhaustive Liste, weil einige dieser Theorien kleiner waren, aber nicht substantiiert. Aber um so viele der Theorien zu rüberkommen, wie ich mich erinnern kann, haben wir einfach nicht wissen oder unkonklusive Theorien. Secondly, we have mass psychogenic illness.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
We've got ultrasonic sound interference, right? Those waves interfering with one another. A specialized sound weapon or microwave weapon. Wild. Of course we have wild, very sci-fi. We have Indies short-tailed crickets. Maybe it's just a little animal, a little guy. I forgot about the crickets because we were so deep into like the Russians. Right.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
This could be just when you wish upon a star Jiminy Cricket. Yeah, that little guy. That little guy. Radiofrequenzenergie, die, um den Geist nicht in die Bilder zu bringen, du weißt, ich liebe einen kleinen Geist oder zwei, aber es gibt etwas mit den elektromagnetischen Frequenzen, Radiofrequenzen und dem aufwändigen Verständnis, wie diese auf dem Geist spielen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
You also have persistent postural perception dizziness. Again, that PPPD I talked about. And then the idea of toxins, chemicals or viral illnesses in the environment. Each of them has their own merit, their own intrigue, their own conspiracy behind them. But... I don't know before I kind of really fully conclude here. I'm curious. Where's your mind at? We're not going to have an answer.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
I don't know if we ever will. This might be a thing of release the JFK tapes in like 50 years from now. We say release the Havana Syndrome tapes. But I'm curious, where's your mind at?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, ich kann sicherlich zwei junge 19-Jährige Bucks sehen, die einfach sagen, hier, versuch das an mir. Wow, das macht mich seltsam. Versuch es an dir. Genau. Also bin ich nicht ganz sicher, wo es landet. Ja, ich denke, und hier ist es, wo ich eine gute Theorie liebe. Wir haben über Severance auf unserer Patreon-Page gesprochen, um Gottes willen. Ich liebe es, mit ihm zu reden.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber ihr könnt ein Taskforce-Mitglied werden, wenn ihr auf redwebpod.com geht. Dort für euren direkten Unterstützung. Wir können nur diesen Podcast machen, weil von diesem Unterstützung her. Wir werden euch Sachen wie free-ad-versions dieses Podcasts, monatliche Exklusiven und natürlich Dinge wie die monatlichen Stor-Discounts. Wir haben Discord-Events und all diese Sachen.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das ist der ganze Punkt dieses Podcasts manchmal. Aber hier, nur als normaler Typ, der Mysterien liebt, fühle ich, dass es hier viele Elemente gibt. Ich fühle, dass massene psychologische Krankheiten, wie es international verbreitet wird, und wir könnten eine ziemlich mundane Antwort haben, wie es begann.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich denke, es gibt etwas zu der Intermodulation, die zwischen diesem Spionage-Equipment und diesem Spionage-Equipment passiert. Aber ich denke auch, es gibt etwas zu den Crickets. Vielleicht begann es mit etwas Schlimmes und etwas Kleinem. Die Crickets sind nicht regional zu der kubanischen Region, aber sie sind nicht weit. Also konnten sie es dort erreichen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Vielleicht begann es so und es wurde anderen weltweit verbreitet, weil der Angst vor dem Unbekannten. Und ich kann auch nicht vollständig die russischen Microwave-Waffen verkaufen. Wenn wir wissen, dass in den 60er und 70er Jahren die Russen, oder Entschuldigung, die USSR, solche Waffen testen, dann ist es sicher, vielleicht passiert es jetzt in 2016 oder vielleicht ist es komplett unabhängig.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es ist schwer, es rauszuholen oder in. Ja. Aber ich kann nicht vollkommen... Ich habe einige ziemlich wilde Regierungserfahrungen gesehen, sowohl hier als auch auf der Welt, über die letzten 100 Jahre. Es gibt einiges... Denk an MK-Ultra, um zu beginnen, richtig? True, true. Und deshalb stelle ich es nicht über die Regierung, um das zu probieren. Aber glaube ich, das ist das, was hier stattfindet?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Vielleicht. Ich weiß es nicht. Aber ich denke, dass wir einen einfach zu verstehen Anfang haben, egal ob das Waffen oder ein Cricket ist oder eine furchtbare ultrasonische Interferenz. Und dann der Rest ist diese psychogenische, massene psychogenische Krankheit von Oh mein Gott, wir wissen nicht, was es ist. Ich hoffe wirklich nicht, dass es nicht ich bin, weil das genau so ist.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich bin dieser CIA Agent und ich bin hier in, weißt du, einem anderen Land. Vielleicht. Oh nein, jetzt fühle ich es. Richtig. Und wir haben das schon gemacht. Oder PPPD. Ich finde das auch wirklich interessant. Und ich denke, das ist das, was das Problem sein wird. Ich habe nur halb davon gesagt. Aber ich frage mich, ob es eine Kombination ist, weißt du?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Nun, um zu beenden, in den Jahren, die nach den initialen Angriffen gefolgt haben, ist keine Befugnis zurückgekommen. Es bleibt ein Geheimnis, wie diese Leute getarget worden sind oder ob sie getarget worden sind und was genau passiert ist, um diese Symptome zu fühlen. Und das ist das Geheimnis des Havanna-Syndroms. Ich denke, wir werden darüber reden in unseren Leben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ich würde mich sehr interessieren, ob... Ich meine, es scheint, dass einige Menschen es jetzt noch erleben. Es ist nicht so, als wäre es fertig. So I'm very curious.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
And of course we have Mystery Madness going on right now where everybody can go vote on their favorite mysteries. 64 mysteries enter the boxing ring and only one will come out champion. And so we want to hear from you guys. We're going to have a bunch of bonus videos all throughout this month recapping each of the rounds of that.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
I just can't. I'm with you. I feel sometimes guilty coming out of these like, these are deeply unknown mysteries. And I'm like, mm-hmm, opinion. But I don't know, man. I'm totally with you. Sometimes I find solace in being able to go, yeah, this feels right. Of course, it's unsubstantiated. But I can see at least half of these making a lot of sense. Exactly. Having some sort of merit to them.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But yeah. Task Force, let us know what you think. As always, we have our Patreon-exclusive Discord channel, wherein that there is a theory section where you guys go off, you guys talk back and forth on each of these episodes. We love to know what you guys think. The hive mind of the Task Force is itself just a giant brain. Yes, it is. A lot of wrinkles. A lot of wrinkles, okay.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber ja, Sie können sich dafür einladen, wenn Sie auf redwebpod.com gehen. Natürlich gibt es all die Geräte, die mit dabei kommen, kostenlose Podcasts, monatliche Exklusiven, Verkaufsverkaufe. Natürlich, Fredo, wenn Sie über den Filmclub sprechen wollen, haben wir das auch jede Woche.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Absolut. Was für eine Bibliothek von vielleicht 16 plus. Ich könnte nicht die Mathematik richtig machen, aber sobald du dich aufrufst, kriegst du Zugang zu all diesen. Und ich denke, sogar im Januar haben wir ein Bonus Red Web Episode für euch auf den Jersey Drones und die Theorien hinter all dem, wenn du dich erinnerst, das passiert im Dezember. Aber ja, viel passiert. RedWebPod.com.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Bis zum nächsten Mal.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
But we also have a pilot version of the video podcast that came out earlier this month. There's just a lot cooking up over there. We want to thank you all so much for your ongoing support. Jetzt mit dem, lasst mich euch zurück in 2016 zurücknehmen, Fredo. Also Havanna-Syndrom, direkt aus der Tür. Es wird als ein anomaliesches Gesundheits-Infekt oder ein AHI bezeichnet.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es wurde zuerst im Namen von Havanna-Cuba in 2016 berichtet, richtig? Die ersten Menschen, die von dieser Bedingung betroffen waren, waren berichtet CIA-Affiziere und USA-Embassade-Affiziere, die damals in Havanna lebten.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
sind. Absolut. Weißt du, POI, Personen der Interesse, weißt du. Ja. Oder Intrigue, was auch immer du möchtest. Aber insgesamt hat diese initiale Wende rund zwei Tausend Menschen, die ähnliche Symptome und Erfahrungen beurteilt haben. Jeder Fall war charakterisiert von einem akuten Anstieg von extremen Symptomen. Der erste war ein lauter Geräusch mit Kopf- und Ohrenschmerzen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Jetzt, Fredo, ich bin sehr gespannt, ob du etwas wie dieses erlebt hast. Ich sage nicht, dass du Havanna-Syndrom hattest, aber ich bin gespannt, ob du Erfahrungen mit all diesem hattest und du das mit einigen deiner Gutschecks beurteilen kannst.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Warte, Christian, kriegst du Schmerzen? Oh, ja. Ich wollte nur sagen, ich denke, es gibt etwas in der Task Force HQ, Wasser. Ich bekomme keine Schmerzen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das ist es.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So in addition to this headache, these ear pains, some heard that piercing ringing, others heard what they described as a buzzing sound and some heard what was like a wind whipping sound. If you've ever driven down the highway, you've got the window down like a crack and you start to hear that wum wum wum wum wum. Yes. I think that's what they're trying to describe. Oh, that's annoying. Oh yeah.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So that's the kind of initial sound that then kicked on the rest of these symptoms. So those affected experienced a range of other symptoms in addition to that pain after this sudden noise. These included nausea, tinnitus, vertigo, blurred or impaired vision, intense headaches and ear pain, of course.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Now what's interesting is that others reported that some of these symptoms actually became chronic, affecting patients for months after the initial onset. And lingering symptoms reportedly included insomnia and chronic headaches after this initial outburst of symptoms.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Nach diesen Berichten hat die Trump-Administration alle unnötigen Personen auf der Embassie evakuiert, die diese als Angriffe bezeichnet haben. Und was ich so interessant fand, ist, dass es fühlt sich an, als wäre es ein Angriff. Und ich wollte mehr aufgreifen, weil Angriffe definitiv einen ziemlich alarmierenden Unterton haben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und das ist, warum es so viele Theorien gibt, die hinter den Szenen auf diesem Thema passieren. Wie versuchen, bis zum Ende zu kommen, was da passiert ist. Im Oktober 2017 sagte Trumps Chef von Staff John Kelly den Berichtern, Quote, wir glauben, dass die Regierung die Angriffe auf unsere Diplomaten stoppen könnte. Das ist in Bezug auf die kubanische Regierung, nicht unsere.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime and the supernatural. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz. What is this?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Trump hat sie dann auch, Quote, sehr ungewöhnliche Angriffe genannt. Seit diesen Initialen Berichten haben über 1.000 Menschen mit dem Havanna-Syndrom berichtet. In Wahrheit, laut NPR, sobald es im März 2023 kam, wurden etwa 1.500 Fälle von US-Staffern weltweit berichtet.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So again, we're starting with a few dozen people in Havana, Cuba, but now we're talking about a much more widespread, we'll talk about more of the countries in a second, but as of 2023, seven years on, 1,500 individuals coming to the table reporting similar symptoms. Jeez.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es gibt Krankheiten. Ich meine, gerade vor kurzem, als wir dieses Video gedreht haben, es ist in unserem eigenen Hintergrund, also ist es schwer, es nicht zu sagen, aber Measles. Ja. San Antonio hier in Austin. Viele Dinge kommen gerade aus.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Girl Scout Cookies, würdest du es mögen? Hell nein. Es geht um eine gute Sache.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das ist verrückt, man. Jeder, den ich kenne, ist krank. Das ist wild. Jetzt auf store.redwebpod.com. Nimm deinen eigenen Bubble. Es könnte verkauft werden. Die Verpackung ist eine. Alfredo braucht es. Hör auf, die Mutter Natur kommt für dich, egal wo. Schluck einfach durch die Kräfte deiner Fenster, während du schläfst. Komm für den Sinus.
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Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Aber das, was so viel Aufmerksamkeit auf das Havana-Syndrom zieht, ist, dass es ein medizinisches Geheimnis ist und es viele Menschen beeinflusst. Aber wenn man sich auf das Populismus anschaut, das es beeinflusst, scheint es sich größtenteils um US-Intelligenz-Personal und ihre Familien zu konzentrieren. Du klopft das direkt aus der Tür. Du weißt, mit wem wir arbeiten.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Es ist ein Unsolved Mysteries, manchmal ein Konspirations-Podcast. Und so klopft du den Pattern direkt weg. Und für einige der Verletzten sind die chronischen Symptome stark genug, dass es sie tatsächlich in den Retirement gezwungen hat. Whoa. Now, I haven't looked into the further details. I do want to say it could be that these are, you know, older individuals that might be ready for retirement.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Something like this can hit older individuals more impactfully, right?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
So I don't want to give false pretense that this is a youthful CIA agent of the age of 32 that's suddenly like kicking it, you know? But it is a pattern worth pointing out. So now of course adding fuel to this conspiracy fire is the fact that further details regarding the initial medical investigations have of course been kept classified by the CIA.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Anytime something is kept classified, people gotta get their fingers in there and answer the questions, right? Too many gaps, people get uncomfortable. I need the answers. Interessanterweise, wie ich schon erwähnt habe, während das in Kuba angefangen hat, haben die Fälle seitdem wirklich die Welt in mehrere verschiedene Länder übersprungen.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Wir sprechen von Russland, Kolumbien, China, Taiwan, Österreich, Deutschland und so weiter. Und zwar, ja, es heißt Havanna-Syndrom, aber es wird nicht aus Havanna hervorgehoben. Es wird nicht bezeichnet, dass es in irgendeiner Weise kontagios ist. Es bedeutet also, dass das, was die Erkrankung dieser Krankheit betrifft, nicht spezifisch für jede eine Region ist.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Und ich denke, das erzeugt nur mehr Intrige, mehr Wunsch, Antworten zu finden, weil, ja, es anfängt, mehr zu fühlen wie, okay, es sind US-Intelligenz-Agenzen und ihre Familien weltweit. Wie fühlt sich das nicht an wie ein gewisser Angriff? Weißt du, was ich meine?
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Ja, absolut. Besonders wenn du nicht weißt, wofür du beeinflusst wirst. War es ein fremder Gegner? Bist du in irgendeinem Sinne verpustet? Ist ein Chemie durch die Kräfte geschlafen? All diese Fragen kommen mir vor. Und viele dieser Fragen erzeugen natürlich Angst.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Was diese Sache noch weiter kompliziert, ist, dass die Überlebenden dieser Situation berichtet haben, dass es für sie schwierig war, entsprechende Betreuung und Testung zu bekommen, weil wir nicht wirklich wissen, mit was wir arbeiten oder wie wir es lösen. Manche sagten, dass sie sich nicht mit den Militärsystemen kennengelernt haben.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das machte es schwierig für sie, Bescheid zu machen und sich zu kümmern. Natürlich gab es auch Komplikationen. Andere berichteten, dass sie nicht in der richtigen Weise von medizinischen Profis kümmern. Wegen der Ungewöhnlichkeit der Situation, die viele medizinische Profis überrascht hat.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Das würde die Testung schlussendlich verlängern, es für Forschende und Befragende schwieriger zu machen, die Grundlage für die Krankheit zu finden. Und für mich öffnet sich hier nur Raum für alle Theoristen, wie ich immer sage, zu steigen und konkrete Schlussfolgerungen aufgrund von Überzeugungen zu stellen, wenn man nichts anderes zu tun hat.
Red Web
Havana Syndrome | Exploring the Science and Conspiracies of This Bizarre Phenomenon
Oh, sind das die Dinge, die unter deiner Haut ein bisschen rütteln?
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Now, as we've lightly joked about before, but but more seriously talked about during ghost hunts, salt is believed to have cleansing properties and possesses the ability to ward off evil spirits from various points of view in the world. And what stands out to me again is this very interesting scene for a person who supposedly doesn't believe in witchcraft and doesn't really add any value to this.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Like what happened in San Francisco really changed things. If he's coming back, line and salt down, you know? Yeah.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Maybe that's why you're untouched and holy. It could be. I feel like us Americans are pickled with salt. We should be okay.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It's our primary seasoning. Now, I mean, I'm safe from vampires because I'm basically 50% garlic myself. That's my seasoning of choice. Garlic bread. Good stuff. Yeah. Oh, now you got me thinking about it. But here's the thing. Like, you're totally right. And a lot of this relies on the police report from a close friend. Right. And I want to believe them.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And there's no reason why I wouldn't other than, you know, being cynical and trying to approach this case from other angles. But but, yeah, something happened, whether it was of his body or of his mind. Definitely something shifted there.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And on top of that, we were really curious, Christian and I kind of looking at the research here, talking with a researcher, Kat, and whether or not this setup, right, that was found in his apartment, these crucifixes, these candles, this salt, whether it had anything to do with his friend's psychic abilities or not, is kind of up for debate.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
We couldn't figure out one way or another if this was her stepping in to say, well, maybe this is a way I know how to help. And again, this is where I have to keep a part of that cynical brain going. Like, what if she was there to try to help? And then he winds up dead. And then she goes, oh. I mean, I would believe that maybe she didn't kill him, but it doesn't look good.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And so now we got to go, oh, something else. Curse in another city. You know, I don't know.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Oh, that's you're getting just one sentence ahead of me right now, because that's where we're at. And again, he could see task force. He could see the future five seconds at a time. It's like that's so Fredo. But just like but glimpses. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Rocket Money. When it comes to spending, sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It's Benny from The Mummy. I mean, that's Alfredo in a nutshell. But yeah, this case is really, really fascinating. But a huge caveat up front, there's not a lot of documentation around this case. A lot of it is hearsay. It's one of those cases that is super, super fascinating. And we dove in, tried to find all the details, but we wanna be very realistic because it is really gripping.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Download the Rocket Money app and enter our show name, Red Web, in the survey so they know we sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them we sent you. Let them know Red Web is out here bringing the task force members to financial and fiscal responsibility and save some money today. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Shopify.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Go to shopify.com slash redweb. One more time, that's shopify.com slash redweb. But yeah, I mean, you're totally right. I will say lots of people have gone away, even in the 90s, even though it wasn't that long ago. Like a lot of people have gone away for the wrong reasons because it was like they were the only person that made sense. And so they go, yeah, we might not be able to really nail you.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But otherwise, you know this. But regardless, you're right. Let's talk about the coroner. Let's talk about the situation here. So ultimately, the medical investigator at the scene reported that there was no sign of violence, robbery or foul play. To me, foul play doesn't necessarily have to mean that the apartment's roughed up, but that's what they're concluding at the scene.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And then later on, the coroner concluded during an autopsy that Case had died of acute myocarditis and then heart failure. So... Kind of looking into this more deeply, we're not a medical podcast by any means, but I really wanted to dig into this because this is the most solid answer we have, and it might open up some cracks into some ideas, right?
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
The idea that somebody, you know, was this a paranormal attack? Was this some sort of curse? Was this a medical tragedy? Was this somebody dying from fear alone? Those are the angles we're going to be looking at here because this case otherwise is missing. Well, missing answers as far as the Internet is concerned, as far as mystery enthusiasts are concerned.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
So per the Mayo Clinic, myocarditis is a scenario in which the heart muscle becomes inflamed. Now, this has a slew of causes. Often it's caused by infection, whether it be bacteria, parasitical, fungi, viruses, what have you. There are autoimmune disorders that can lead to this. This condition can lead to arrhythmia, a rapid heartbeat, an irregular heartbeat.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
All of these things affect the heart's ability to pump blood, and it can be fatal. There are, however, some other causes. This won't be exhaustive, but it will cover the principal other ones, right? There are medications like cancer drugs, antibiotics, and some anti-seizure medications that can lead to myocarditis. There's also the fact that the recreational drug cocaine can lead to myocarditis.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And it can also be caused by carbon monoxide poisoning, radiation poisoning. Again, not exhaustive, but covering a lot of things, maybe opening up some baby theories out there. Right.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
absolutely incidences happen all the time right it could literally just be that it could just be that and it could be that a thousand of these cases have happened before but because there wasn't such unique coincidences it didn't stand out right the fact that he's got the crucifixes candles the salt he's dead within the week he's talking about a curse he seemingly was healthy as far as we're aware this is an internal issue that can happen to seemingly healthy people
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah, maybe it was just truly, and that's kind of one of the theories I wanted to pose was like, maybe this really just was bad coincidence, bad timing. The reason I also wanted to outline some of the major causes of myocarditis is that this is the coroner's conclusion on the case. And to me, this is the foundation for the theories to build upon.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I think it's the most answers we have and it would be wise to start there. Though we'll also explore some of the other ideas too that I hinted at the top of the show. The concepts of a curse I think are always going to be interesting. So we'll talk about that angle. The age-old tale of being scared to death is also quite fascinating. We'll talk about that a little bit.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But as far as the medical world, as far as police are concerned, they have an answer. And so we're going to talk about all of that.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But then of course, what you're talking about, the natural instinct of being like, hey, maybe this is just really bad timing. I don't know. Lots to explore. So with that, let's dive in. Talking first about a curse. So some theorize that Case truly did succumb to a curse put on him by some mysterious woman in San Francisco. Not being a believer in the occult prior to this incident,
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
made people close to Case kind of remark on how strange his sudden shift in demeanor and behaviors kind of was, you know? And some then reported that after returning home from this business trip, Case began to suffer from unsettling dreams and experiences in the middle of the night. He reportedly told Souder that he heard voices in the middle of the night.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He felt hands that would pin him down to the sheets. He would feel scratches and being beaten while being held down to the bed. And my natural inclination, Fredo and Christian, you both have had sleep paralysis.
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I mean, fear can certainly lead to that...
Red Web
Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
placebo effect whatever that takes form in and whatever it was again something really happened i i will stand by the fact that something truly happened a case that i think will be the mystery behind this case forevermore was it something occult was it something paranormal was it something more mundane we'll never know right but the fact is something happened and it caused this shift
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And yeah, we've talked, we did a whole episode, in fact, about sleep paralysis and it often in history taking the form of demons. Right. What is it? The man in the the shadow man in the hat. Right. The hat man is one. There's also the demon that kind of sits on your chest because feeling pressure on your chest is often. Did you experience that one?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
why can't they be happy experiences i know it's a spooky feeling but like what if you saw your brother as an angel you know what i mean that'd be cool i'll be like what's good that would have been better why is it always going to be a shadow entity that scares you half to death i know it has to be so negative
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
So on top of what he's experiencing at night and sharing with his friend, he even went so far as to visit religious and occult bookstores across Seattle. These were firsthand encounters, people witnessing him in these locations. And clearly he's trying to learn more about whatever situation he finds himself in.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah. That kind of played at the back of my mind. Interesting. Um, but info wise, it's a game of telephone. Info-wise, it's a game of telephone. It's from the early 90s, which really shouldn't be all that bad.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He's trying to stock up on crucifixes at these stores, trying to collect Bibles and protect himself in whatever way he knows how. With all due respect,
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But do any of us really know what's going on beyond this great space-time fabric? We got some good guesses.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
if this was a curse or this was a supernatural thing there would be that many people that are actually equipped to deal with it i i would feel similarly you know if i was truly in this situation again this feels very much like a movie it's a gripping story it follows the traditional pattern of most paranormal possession stories occult stories things of that nature where you feel completely isolated and
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And I'm always desperately saying, and I think it kind of applies here too, talk. Talk to people where you can. I know the trope is that the world is then set out to make you feel crazy, for lack of a better word. And so you further become more isolated. But I'm like, you're going to these hot spots.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
You're going to religious bookstores, occult bookstores, maybe going to church or what have you, right? You're looking for answers. I'm hoping you're talking to people too, because that's the best way to stumble into somebody who might be able to provide some solace. that could maybe quell some of those fears.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But we do see that when there is lacking documentation at the time, or if people don't take it seriously at the time, it becomes, yes, a game of rumors, a game of guesswork, and a lot of theories. So this one's going to be really fascinating, but I also want to approach it very practically and really try to think... outside of the theories as to what might have happened here.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
You got to ask the question. I mean, man, I don't know. I'm taking. So as before we continue on with this theory, it is worth taking inventory of the facts that we know. Right. Coming from the coroner, coming from the police reports. Whether he's on his knees or not in the bathtub, again, that is reported. That is kind of through various different sources, but not all.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
So we know he's found dead in his apartment in the bathtub. In his apartment, there are 10 used candles. We don't know if they were in some sort of shape or symbol or how far burned down they were. I'll tell you, I've got like 20 burned candles in my house because I like a good smell. I like a good ambience. So I don't know. I don't know the details, right?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
We do know, oddly enough, that salt is around the walls. That is interesting. Could it be... What's it called? Diatomaceous earth? That's not how you say it, but it's like that earth that prevents bugs. It's like... Like that prevents anything from growing there or like... It stops bugs from coming in, basically.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It's an organic material that's made out of like abrasive particles that kind of destroy the exoskeleton of like roaches or whatever. Anyway, I'm just saying, I'm sure like a police officer got down there and like tested it out and didn't just look at like some white dust along the wall and said like, Salt must have been weird. All I'm trying to say is, okay, I'm getting off track.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
The facts of the matter, he's found deceased in the bathtub. There's salt around the house. There's some candles. There's a lot of crucifixes. And he was found in an autopsy later on to have myocarditis. And his friends are saying that he was afraid of something, a curse, though he wasn't very believing of that ilk. Those are the facts. That's what it all comes down to.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And as we dive in, as always, I want to give a huge shout out to our task force members, Splode King, who's a buff scientist, a buff mind. Thank you so much. And of course, our squonks of the month, we have Azrael, Mitch W., Sabrina Hall, and TGYK94, just to name a few. Thank you guys so much.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And that's why I really appreciate BetterHelp as a service. It allows you to approach therapy and get you started in an arena that's otherwise hard to talk about or maybe find your footing. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient as well.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
You can join a session with a click of a button, helping you fit your therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists at any time. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash redweb to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash redweb.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Now back to this theory, you know, some of the news outlets we talked about reported on April 17th, that was the night before his death, that Casey called Sauter yet again in a panic, and this time saying that he didn't think he was going to survive the night. In the same Seattle Times article I talked about before, he was actually quoted at some time in the timeline.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I don't know if it was during this call. Again, things are a little washy, wibbly wobbly. But he said at some point, quote, people are trying to do things to me, end quote. So now, is this a curse or is this some sort of scenario where some ne'er-do-well, some sinister entity, some individual somewhere is trying to do some harm?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah. Ultimately, the biggest wrinkle for this particular theory is that despite the many different paranormal topics we've talked about, there's that sliver that remains unexplained. I think that's always such an intriguing lane to be in. But the people that believe this theory are the ones that kind of say, listen, all right, so you're saying it was myocarditis.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
the symptoms for that leading up to his death from this, it's usually accompanied by flu-like symptoms or things like that. Other symptoms manifest in a way that his friends should have noticed. And... Right. Reportedly, he didn't have any of these symptoms. And so...
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It is that lack of obvious symptoms that make the proponents of the curse theory go, I feel like you just didn't know how to answer it. And so you didn't want to say curse because you're the police. So you went with this. But I don't know. This is a doctor, a coroner opening him up and seeing that, yes, his heart muscle is inflamed.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And if you want to support us directly and become a member of the task force, you can go to redwebpod.com. That's where you can join as a member, get yourself a badge. And right now, all four of us played a horror game recently. I believe it's called Repo that we're going to play. And it comes out this Wednesday. So come check it out exclusively on Patreon.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah. Like, I don't want to be wishy washy. I know there's times where we feel like we're more open to the mysterious, like conspiracy, or sometimes we just shut that down. It's really case by case, whatever the gut is feeling like it, this one's just so thin. It's I, I would want there to be more if I, if I was really to be. drawn in by the idea of like the curse, like something else happening.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
But anyway, the other theory, the other major theory that is speculated about Case is that he truly did suffer myocarditis. Maybe that was how he died. And that was brought on, maybe not by the curse directly, but rather by an intense fear or paranoia that his trip to San Francisco caused. Again, whatever that was. Right. And we're not doctors. We really tried to look into it.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And there's not a whole lot of documentation that points to fear, paranoia leading to myocarditis. And there's also not a lot of documentation of myocarditis affecting the psyche and having symptoms of that way. So was it myocarditis that created the paranoia? It is vaguely possible. Again, I'm not a doctor. I'm not sure. Right.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah. Is it a scenario where fear and paranoia in reverse created myocarditis? Probably not. There isn't a lot of there's like no documentation for that. Yeah. So interesting theory. Right. Because we've talked about and we've heard a lot of cases about people being scared to death.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
We've heard stories sometimes exaggerated where people's hair goes white overnight because of just an absolute deep gripping fear of something. But with all that said, all of my, you know, my ignorant medical knowledge on display, I do want to go to somebody more appropriate, right? So according to the American Heart Association, intense fear or a feeling of danger, right?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Causes adrenaline to course through the body, sending the body into that fight or flight mode. You've got cortisol ripping through your body. That stress can do a lot to you. Stress long-term especially, right? Now, this makes people with pre-existing heart conditions more susceptible to, quote, cardiac events. It could be, right? Yeah. This is where we're getting at, right?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It could be a situation where this, whether it be a short-term heavy heart, prolonged amount of adrenaline for this week led to an existing heart condition that he might have had that he didn't know of and could have exacerbated things, possibly. But again, Christopher was reportedly quite active and healthy before his incident.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
It's possible that he had an undiagnosed underlying condition, of course. Just because you're a runner or you're active or what have you doesn't unfortunately make you immune to some of life's nasty turns.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
absolutely runs in the family yep yep so again going back and forth i can see how this is on the table i can see how it's a theory um but my mind kind of goes the other another two different directions i think Ultimately, this being a matter of unfortunate timing where, yes, he was afraid something might have happened, but he had an underlying heart condition.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Fear or not, I think the myocarditis was something that was just in the picture and it just didn't look great. Right.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I'll drip you out, head to toe, make sure you're sipping on that knowledge. And speaking of knowledge, it's time to dive into the case. So this one begins on April 18th, 1991. A man named Christopher Case, who I do have an image for you, take a look right here, was found deceased in his apartment home bathtub. Aww.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Right. And that's the key word. Pay for, oh, well, it was nothing. So what did I do this for? Right. That's kind of where I'm at. I've scheduled some doctor appointments for this year because I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I need to make sure it's nothing. Just got to take a look. Just got to take a look.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
See what's going on. Look under the hood. You do it for your car. Yeah. No, I'm with you.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
i'm gonna live forever now it's like oh i maybe threw one too many uh pitches in back in my day so i mean the other angle and again i don't put a lot of stock into it but for the sake of like all the thoughts that come to mind it is there's a sliver of a chance that the friends had something to do with it you know i can imagine there being a i just i
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
The idea that this is like a wild story about a witch curse and they're the only people that are really seeing that he's fearful and they're going to he's going to them. Then you go to his house and there's like these candles and things and I'm thinking, well, if he didn't believe in any of this, What's more likely that something happened and it changed his mind? Possible, totally.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Or was this maybe made up? Maybe they had a party. I don't want to assassinate his character or anything, but what if they were up late having a party? Cocaine was on the list for myocarditis. What if they, oh, a little too much, too fast. Oh, now I'm panicking. Oh, we got to get out of here. Things are going south. Right. I don't know. I could just see pieces.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I know that people get rapid heartbeats on cocaine. I know that there's all sorts of like, some people get like brave and they, you know, they get boisterous. Some people get like paranoid, you know, there's all sorts of symptoms one can read about with this thing. Again, I'm not going to put this on this man. I don't know what his lifestyle was.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I don't want to pretend to know these things, but it's like, it's out there. It's like, it's, it's surrounding this and it comes to mind. Like, And if something goes south and friends were close, I'm not saying it's sinister. I'm just saying like, hey, I don't want to be involved.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
We've seen people lie when they were close to a case, even though they didn't really seem like they were going to be it. Like Paula Jean Weldon, right? Her dad is... one of the suspects simply because he's kind of curbing some of the truths because he doesn't want to be a suspect. But I'm like, but that just made you a suspect. So let's just be honest here. Right. I don't know. I don't know.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I could go.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, again, and I think that this is a hotbed story for all sorts of theories, and I think that's what makes it so fascinating for a lot of theorists and mystery lovers out there. But ultimately, it comes down to this, right? The medical cause of death, as determined by the coroner,
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
was myocarditis his death is widely discussed and debated especially given his strange behavior in the week leading up to it of course that makes it seem very eerie but i think what remains the mystery here is who exactly this woman was he saw in san francisco or what exactly what happened in san francisco right like right something was like a light switch happened while he was on this work trip.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And that I think will forever be the mystery because I do believe that it was his heart condition that ended his life early. And I agree. It's just a matter of then what caused that? What led that?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
At that point, you're right. We could weave many, many tales based on the few facts we have. And that's where I don't want to be irresponsible. But, you know, we're having a conversation about it. Right. We're exploring the different angles. But man, this is why I think that it will forever tickle the interest of the paranormal lovers, the mystery lovers out there.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And many will continue to speculate if his death was truly a matter of just his heart or if there was some sort of paranormal curse involved. But this has been the death of Christopher Case.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Big smile on his face. Very 90s. This almost feels like a retro like McDonald's commercial or some sort of aerobics infomercial kind of thing. You know what I mean?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He did say in episode 138 something about loving corn and loving to run.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
You're setting up a Rube Goldberg puzzle for after your death. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There could be tapes. You're just building up a library every year where you're just adding to it just in case the end happens. Just a little recording. You know what I mean? Just a little recording here and there. On the scale of Kevin McAllister Home Alone to Jigsaw in Saw, I don't know where to put you.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
And I think to put you on that scale anywhere would terrify me, to be totally honest. But I got to be honest. I think you're on it. You're on that scale somewhere. I'm on the scale.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
i will be i will still be here long after my passing i'll let the task force you know that's a real ghost right there yeah this we're trying to i mean you're inventing in the process of inventing the first real demonstrable ghost you will have impacts long after your your presence here right there's gonna be something that goes live on social media like 10 years after i pass and then task force at large is gonna be like come on man like just
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
you're gone like leave us alone we were out of the woods stop sending us it's gonna start with an obnoxiously long countdown too it's gonna be like it's gonna be like 50 what seconds minutes days yeah months oh come on all right Well, Task Force, thank you all so much once again for hanging with us in another mystery. We'd love to hear your thoughts over on the Discord.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
You can get to that by going to redwebpod.com. Of course, if you want to support the show, there's many ways to do that. We talked about it at the top of the show, but you can also review us wherever you listen to us. Give us that algorithm boost in this increasingly electronic algorithm world. The dead internet is upon us.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
yeah yeah he was a former radio broadcaster from raleigh north carolina and case actually moved to seattle washington to pursue a career as a music executive so reportedly he ended up working at music holdings which was a company that kind of specialized in background music as well as jingles So everything seemed normal for this 35 year old. I want to reiterate, he's 35 years young.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the paranormal. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast begging for ghosts to be real, Trevor Collins, and joining me hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He's really not that old. He's hitting his stride. I also say that because as a 34 year old myself, I really want to make sure that I, you know, I stay grounded.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I got time, right? But. Until this recent trip, this is where things took a turn, after which his life was filled with fear over what he experienced concerning those close to him, and before Case was ultimately then found clothed in his bathtub in his Seattle apartment and pronounced dead at the scene.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Now, adding some detail to this, some reports actually add that Case was found in a kneeling position in the bathtub with his head against the wall. Overall, there was a woeful lack of clear evidence across the sources that we looked at. So elements like this, as compelling as they are for future theories, we'll dive into those, should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Again, it's hard to get the exact picture of the scene when you don't have all that documented at the time or widely reported on. That word of mouth can sometimes twist these things in retrospect. So police were originally on the scene because they were checking on him in his home after an undisclosed friend of Case ordered a wellness check after not hearing from him for a few days.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Now we looked into this and this person was seemingly reported as undisclosed. I don't know if they wanted to maintain anonymity, but the police never told Seattle Times what their name was. So undisclosed it is. Now, this friend told the police that in the last week, Case had become fearful, saying that a witch had put a curse on him during his time in San Francisco.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah, this is what I was going to be curious about, because, you know, we've talked about a lot of New England territory, witchcraft. I mean, we talk about the Salem trials before and maybe I don't know. I wanted to talk to you as a San Francisco native.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Is is is this the West Coast Salem or is this like I'm very curious because like this wouldn't be a city that would stand out to me as a witchy, cursey type of city.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Watch your head everywhere you go, but that shit was gnarly. We did a whole ghost investigation on that if you guys want to check it out. But okay, so we're at San Francisco. He's on a work trip and this is where he comes back. He's talking to his undisclosed friend in fits of fear that, hey, I've been cursed. Okay, so that's the scene.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Now, per this original Seattle Times article, it was speculated that sometime around April 11th, 1991, Case took a work trip to San Francisco. Again, this is really hard to dive into the details and figure this out for sure, but this is word in the news reports.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
While in San Francisco, it's reported that he had bonded with a woman that he met, someone that shared the love of music, in fact, particularly ancient music, as the story goes. Now, as these reports continue, the woman had actually made romantic advances toward Case, which he subsequently denied.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He declined her advances on him and after this, the woman supposedly became quite irate with him, stating that she was a witch and that she was going to put a curse on him for turning away her advances, claiming that he would be dead within the week. And reminder, this was seven days before he was found dead in his apartment.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
After returning home from what should have been a regular work trip, a man began to call his friends in a panic, fearing for his life. One week later, police found him deceased. Was this an untimely medical tragedy or an attack of the paranormal? Today, we're discussing the mysterious death of Christopher Case. This is Red Web.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah, that's the thing, is as great of a story as it is, it's coming through an undisclosed friend and then being reported on, and then time only adds to the more interesting elements of these stories we've found in our experience. Like, things get heightened and exaggerated. So I want to keep it as factual as possible as we proceed, but it's very interesting, and...
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
We'll talk more about his existing disposition on religious views or even the occult, of which there are few. So I have my own kind of instincts coming along here, but I'll lay out more and see what you have to say. So this incident seemed to deeply shake Case. He grew incredibly fearful in the days following the events.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
He's calling his friends really in a fit of fear about what he's experiencing. Like it's truly shaking him, whatever it was that he did experience. So maybe it was something else. Maybe it was somebody claiming to be a witch and putting a curse on him. Either way, something happened, right? That's the truth. Something stuck with Case all the way back home. And then...
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
I don't know if it's coincidence, irony, or just like sad fate, but then he is dead a week later. Now, there was another friend of Case's who was a woman named Sammy Souder, or Sude. I'm not sure exactly on the pronunciation, but she also reported that Case called her concerned about this curse.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
so now we actually have two close friends of case verifying this story but my mind starts to go two ways right especially since we do have a name here before one was not anonymous but undisclosed now we have a person whose identity is behind the story now my mind goes two ways one they both independently support this story adding a lot of validity to whatever it was that case experienced that case felt threatened that he was rattled after this trip
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
c'est la vie right and then he met his end the other angle is me being a little bit more cynical but again we've done 230 of these episodes and it's hard for me to not feel this way like the other angle is that is this made up right that's the question this could be made up which would imply that these two are corroborating to weave this tale but why would they do that
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
The question would be out for discussion, but the main thing for me would be to cover up some sort of involvement. That something happened between these friends that led to his demise. And in order to cover things up, let's elevate this to a different story and externalize the blame. Just point it outward.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah. We'll see, though, because of the scene that was found in his apartment is one thing. And the other thing, too, is it doesn't have to necessarily mean that they killed him. It could be that, you know, maybe you're out partying, something happens or another, something goes south, someone's health goes south, and you're just like part of it. You didn't do it.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Maybe you helped facilitate it, whatever. An accident happens and you go, I don't want any part of this. I got to distance myself because I don't want it to look like this.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
i had something to do with it right again i'm starting to weave a tale over here i just like that part of me can't i can't ignore but the other half i'm like okay no something substantial is happening here two people are supporting this yeah i mean it could be a plan of like oops we were there when something unfortunate happened and let's come up with a story but then again i also feel like unless you were really a part of it like
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
or or that happened you know or it didn't happen or did it or or just like you know just hear me out plan b this is off the air wink wink uh a ghost tripped him with its fishing line you know i saw the whole thing yeah and i just so happened to flee the scene and stay a few nights at a hotel before leaving town right you're right christmas is silently listening to this whole thing
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Because it's just like, I'm taking these notes. Notes? Here we go. I'm going to remember this. Do I go missing? Listen, if any of us goes missing, my feet aren't moving. I'm staying planted. I'm going to tell them everything. Hands are in the air the whole time. I swear to God, this is everything I know. What do you need to know?
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
Yeah, right, right. Most likely something on me was recording in some way.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
So coming now back to this woman named Sammy. So she herself was a psychic and in response to Case's fear about the curse, she actually told him to seek help. We don't know what type of help, whether it was psychological help, medical help or police or anything like that. But this is all in her police report.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
She later told police that Case was also healthy physically of sound mind and did not believe in witchcraft prior to this event, which that to me kind of really stands out. Yeah. For someone who doesn't believe in witchcraft, he certainly came home very, very afraid of it. Again, unless this story is kind of made up in some way, but I'll leave that for now.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
So coming back now to the discovery and the investigation phase of this case, of which it is quite brief because at the scene of the crime, they kind of figured, well, this seems like an open closed case. Eventually, we have an autopsy and a coroner. So let's talk all about it. In addition to at the scene of the crime, this is very strange.
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Death of Christopher Case | Did a Terrifying Curse Predict His Death or Cause It?
In addition to ten used candles and several crucifixes, they found lines of salts that had been poured along the floor, lining the edges of the walls of his apartment.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Irgendwann nach dem Sonnenschein, das wäre bei meinen Suchen um 7.42 Uhr lokaler Zeit gewesen. Okay. Das würde etwa eine 8-stündige Uhr-Winsel geben, von der initialen Ausflugschau bis zur fast geschlossenen initialen Suche. Jesus! Das ist wirklich schwer zu verstehen, wenn du dich nicht mit Wägen kennst.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Aber ich sage dir das, für den Kontext, ein gewöhnlicher Surfer könnte Wägen von zwei bis fünf Füßen hoch surfen. Und du kannst Bilder von Menschen surfen sehen, und das ist nicht etwas, das du nur aufwärts schwimmen möchtest. Aber dieses Bereich, es ist wert zu erwähnen, ist mit guten Wägen kennengelernt. Ruhige Wasser, Untergrund, aber diese waren heute besonders gefährlich.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Am nächsten Tag, in den frühen Tagen des 18. Dezember, war ABC-Reporter Peter Baster auf der Szene und er sagte den Zuschauer, dass es jetzt ein starkes Verständnis gibt, dass es keine Hoffnung gibt, Mr. Holt noch lebendig zu finden. Zwei Tage nach dem Verlust am 19. Dezember 1967 würde Harold Holt vermutlich tot sein.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Im Januar 1968 wurde ein gemeinsames Bericht von der Commonwealth und der Victoria Police verabschiedet, das sagte, dass es keine Beweise gab, dass der Verlust des alten Mr. Holt etwas anderes als ein Unfall war. Ende Quote. Nun, das ist wichtig zu reflektieren, weil wir in die Theorien reingehen werden.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
I'm gonna call it out. Christian, once again, put another tally down for the gut check. This man's got the soothsaying foresight ability. Okay, X-Gene waking up. Again, I think you're increasing your fortune-telling range from three minutes to three and a half.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und wegen der aufwändigen Vietnamkriege und der intensiven politischen Klima, wiederum, Zeit ist ein Zyklus, die Dinge wiederholen sich. Die Dinge werden intensiv, die Dinge entspannen sich hin und her. Vielleicht sind sie immer intensiv, ich weiß es nicht. Aber Präsident John F. Kennedys Verurteilung war nur vier Jahre früher. Viele denken also, vielleicht war Holts Tod nicht unangenehm.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Vielleicht gab es etwas mehr Intentionelles im Spiel.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
And it's just like, damn. Yeah. I mean, again, officials at this time are saying, listen, these waters were terrible, okay? We can't stress enough, they're kind of implying, that this seems nothing more than an accident. But again, you know people, I've told you enough conspiracies and enough theories and enough this, that and the other to know exactly where we're headed.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Jetzt möchte ich sagen, bevor wir in die Theorien steigen, trotz der ständigen Suche, war Holts Körper noch nie gefunden. Die offizielle Suche wurde am 5. Januar 1968 ausgeführt.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Right, especially, you know, I think you're totally right. I think if there's an undercurrent of some kind and it's pulling somebody out or even a body out, who's to say, right?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
It's kind of like that story, I don't know if you ever heard of this, I think it was along the Californian coast, for goodness sake, but there was a beach for some amount of time where shoes were washing up with feet in them, but no bodies. What the hell?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Christian, erinnere mich, oder vielleicht mache ich einen kurzen Google-Search, aber ich meine, es gab eine ziemlich eindeutige Antwort, die war, dass, weißt du, entweder ein Schiffsausfall geschah oder irgendwie, wie einige Körper in die Wasser entstanden, irgendwo in der Welt und wegen komplexer Stromsysteme im Pazifikischen Ozean und dann Fische, die auf diese Körper fielen, was übrig war, als es endlich auf einem Schiff landete, waren nur Füße in Schuhen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, aber als Christian vielleicht darauf schaut, weil es eine relativ reciente Erinnerung war, vielleicht ein paar Jahre. Natürlich, das wäre kein Red Web und es wäre kein Red-Web-Episode, wenn ein Mann aus dem Meer geflogen wäre und einfach zerstört hätte, auch wenn er so ein prominenter politischer Figur wäre. Where this case really starts to open up is in the theories, as I've indicated.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
You've been doing your reps, you know, so your strength is increasing. Listen, so we've done a disappearance recently, and so I don't know if I'm on a disappearance kick or something, but I agree with you, there's something morbidly fascinating about the disappearance of individuals, because sometimes they disappear... In thin air, leaving no clues behind.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ranging from both the conspiratorial to the mundane, each attempting to fill the gaps as to what happened to this very important political figure? Why would he suddenly disappear? As if overnight, doing something that they were at least moderately trained for and very passionate about.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Though it must be acknowledged, even professional swimmers would experience great difficulty in 8-foot swells in open waters for a prolonged period of time. You're gonna get tired. Aber bevor wir reinigen, Freddo, du hast dieses Show jetzt seit über vier Jahren gemacht. Ja, ich möchte wissen, was dein Gutscheck sagt.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Du hast ein paar Dinge bemerkt und ich denke, du bist auf dem richtigen Weg, worauf wir uns überlegen werden. Aber was fühlst du, wird die wichtigste Antwort sein?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Genau. Das ist völlig richtig. Und auch der Fakt, dass er in der Landschaft gewonnen hat und er im Grunde unabhängig von seiner Partei war. Ich bin so, okay, naja, er hat hier keine tense politische Atmosphäre.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Yeah, yeah, totally fair. And I think just from what we've covered, that would make a lot of sense. But I might start shifting your mind when we start talking about this first theory. But before we do, Christian, any word on the shoes?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das ist wild. Es ist. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Bis zum nächsten Mal. Tschüss. Auf Polarized Sunglasses. Try for yourself. The shades rated 5 stars by over 300,000 people. Use code REDWEB. 35% off Polarized Sunglasses. Ja. Ich liebe das. Monitoring all that in one place has been a dream.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
And there's something so fundamentally like, human, I don't know, just in my bones, that I just, I want the answer so badly. But the one, the reason why we're covering this one, it's so different than the true crime one that we talked about recently, Amy Lynn Bradley. This one's surrounded with, of course, government conspiracy as to Warum ist er verschwunden?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in cancelled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash redweb today. That's rocketmoney.com slash redweb. rocketmoney.com slash redweb
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Alright, let's talk about theory number one. One of the most popular theories surrounding the disappearance of Holt was that he was an active Chinese spy and had been for the last 30 years. This man was a tenured Chinese spy. Jesus, that's a big claim.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Right. Get me a photo, a document, a dossier, and one McDonald's order that proves that this man... Sorry, it's Australia. Macca's. I see you. I see you. Okay, so it was theorized that Holt had not drowned that day, but instead had been either pulled underwater or in some way carted off to a nearby Chinese submarine.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Of course, you know me, I was very curious and I wanted to see if there were any witnesses in the area that reported a submarine or weird nautical activity. And of course, we couldn't find anything like that. But when looking a little bit more into at least this coastline, there's a lot of nuance to be sure. Whatever studies shoreline.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
It appears that a sub could get maybe within a few miles of the shore before being detected. And so it's a heck of a journey from where he disappeared to this sub. But again, this is just my curiosity coming into play because that's a big ask to get a Chinese submarine nearby.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ich werde euch über seinen Verlust gehen, seine Hintergründe, damit wir uns kennenlernen können, versuchen, eine vividere Bildung zu bilden. Und dann leben wir meistens in den Theorien, wo er hinfiel, warum, warum Leute das glauben, was damals passiert war. Und dann einige andere, kann ich sagen, mehr örtliche Erklärungen, die versuchen, diese Gapfen zu füllen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Richtig, Richtig. Du kannst nicht einfach die Hütte öffnen. Du musst auf der Oberfläche sein. Diese Theorie stammt von Ronald Titcombe, einem Geschäftsführer und ehemaliger Australiener Luftwaffe-Intelligenz-Offizier. Sechs Jahre nach Holtz' Verlust im Jahr 1973 war Titcombe in Irak im Geschäft.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Dort schrieb er, ein Kommentar wurde gemacht, dass ein, Quote, hochrangiger Australiener, Ende Quote, Asyl in China gesucht hätte. Er behauptet, dass dieser sogenannte hochrangige Australier Harald Holt sein muss, und dass er nach der Arbeit als Spion für die Kommunistische Partei in China seit 30 Jahren Asyl benötigte.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Diese Gerüchte wurden weiter verbreitet, als er in 1983, zehn Jahre nach dem Anliegen dieser Geschichte, der englische Autor Anthony Gray sein Buch The Prime Minister was a Spy veröffentlichte.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
In diesem Buch geht Gray weiter, um die Begründung zu detaillieren, nämlich zu sagen, dass nach 30 Jahren als Spion Harold Holt seinen eigenen Tod verweigert hat, um den Rest seines Tages in Beijing zu leben. Nun möchte ich einen kürzeren Blick auf die Geschichte und ihre Begründungen nehmen, weil und ich muss hier ein Kaviar bieten. Ich werde in das hineinbauen und ich will nicht hineinbauen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das ist das, was ich gedacht habe. Ich meine, das ist eine ziemlich große Begründung, die aus der Linke herausgekommen ist. So here's kind of how the story breaks down. So as the claim goes, Holtz became involved with the Chinese government in 1929 while attending the University of Melbourne.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
One of Holtz' research papers caught the attention of the Chinese government and he was subsequently recruited by the Consul General in Melbourne and employed at a business newspaper tasked with writing pro-Chinese articles. In 1931, Holtz became an agent for the intelligence group of the Chinese Nationalist Party and was given a handler based in Sydney.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
In 1935 wurde Holt zu dem australischen Haus der Repräsentanten gewählt und war geplant, ein Schlafagent zu sein, aber war zu wertvoll. Flash forward to 1952. He was then contacted by an agent for the Chinese Nationalist Party and was paid £30,000, which by our calculations, with inflation and everything, is roughly 1.36 million US dollars today. And he got that money to continue spying.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
However... Es wird gesagt, dass Holt im Jahr 1954 involuntär deaktiviert wurde, weil er mit der Kommunistischen Partei sympathisiert hat. Und so hat er gesagt, ich beende diese Spionage. Ich halte die Beziehungen. Ich meine,
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Aber es ist ein faszinierender Fall und es ist ein australischer Premierminister, Von, was, fast 60 Jahren her? Also nicht so lange her. Du hast eine sehr große politische Figur, die einfach verschwindet.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, ja, ja! Ja! Yeah, I mean, I'm very curious. It does seem like it's a wild story that pins down some of his actual job history, but then adds this veneer of spiedom over top of it and acts then to... und noch etwas Motiv und andere Dinge, aber es endet nicht dort. Also sagt er, dass er sich ausgeschlossen hat, weil er mit der Kommunistischen Partei sympathisiert hatte.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Aber dann, drei Jahre später, in 1957, hat Holt tatsächlich wieder gespioniert, nachdem er herausgefunden hat, dass der Nationalistische Partei-Agent, mit dem er verabschiedet wurde, derjenige war, mit dem er verabschiedet wurde, weil er sagte, nein, ich bin pro-Kommunist, du bist Nationalist. Well, apparently, this contact was actually, secretly, double agent, part of the Communist Party.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
So he's like, I'm back in. Okay, you never told me you were cool like that. Twist within a twist. Right. So now you know it's a good spy story. Oh man, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Sounds like a good spy story. Mhm. Also, er ist wieder in der Sattel, aber dieses Mal gibt es ein Kaviar.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Von hier her, weißt du, hat er die nächsten zehn Jahre, wahrscheinlich die Geheimnisse an die chinesische Regierung angeboten. Aber dieses Kaviar war, dass er einen Flüchtlingsplan entwickeln musste, sollte er jemals entdeckt werden. Er ist so, okay, wenn ich zurückkomme, brauchen wir einen Grund, mich rauszuholen, wenn ich getroffen werde.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und das ist das Grundwerk für das, wie er verschwunden ist. Nun, im Mai 1967, zehn Jahre später, glaubte Holt, dass die australische Sicherheitsintelligenz-Organisation an seine Spionage gefangen hat, lediglich zu Holt, dann seine eigene Todeserfahrung nach dem Jahr im Dezember. Und so ist das die Theorie in einer Nutschelle, die Geschichte in einer Nutschelle.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Aber es ist wert zu erwähnen, dass die Theorie, das Buch wurde auf Eröffnung stark kritisiert und fand, dass es mehrere faktische Fehler gab. Okay. It was known by many individuals, especially those close to Holt, including his own biographer, Tom Frame, that many of these claims went strictly against Holt's own beliefs.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
So, for example, we're saying that he left the Nationalist Party spy thing because he was communist and he came back because he was communist. But Holt was known to be anti-communist. He was very loudly and proactively anti-communist in his actions and the way he was in private quarters when talking to people, the money he reportedly received.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
I mean, again, in modern currency, 1.36 million dollars never reflected in his lifestyle or the purchases or the things he owned.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ich bin voll mit deinen Quoten aus dem Kontext. Aber ich meine, du bist völlig richtig, wenn Millionen von Gallen von Liquid Gold in Kanada weggehen, wenn all das Sirup falsch geht, aber dann drei Jungs in neuen Js rollen, dann bist du einfach so, okay.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Was ist denn hier los? Jaaa. Es ist auch wert zu erwähnen, weil wir über das Submarin gesprochen haben, ich möchte zurückkommen, dass die Wälder von Cheviot Beach verursacht werden, zu flach zu sein, dass ein Submarin reinkommt und dann jemanden auslöst, um dann in und aus und undetektiert zu werden. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis zum nächsten Mal.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Richtig. Was war das Film, wo, du weißt, jemand teilt, du könntest nur einen Mann auf der Straße sehen, der in New York aufwacht? Eagle Eye. War es Eagle Eye? Nein. It could be any movie, honestly. You said like half a sentence on the eagle eye. Eagle eye. Listen. What's the one where they curve the bullet? Eagle eye. Could be. Who knows? Wanted. But like, I don't know.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Shopify macht es einfach, dein wachsendes Geschäft zu gestalten. Sie helfen mit Dingen wie Schiffen, Steuern und Bezahlungen, alle aus einem einzigen Dashboard, um dich auf die wichtigen Dinge zu konzentrieren, wie das Wachstum deines Geschäftes zu wachsamen und all die administrativen Dinge, die ein bisschen verwirklichen können. Taskforce, was passiert, wenn du nicht jetzt agierst?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Wirst du es regretten? Was, wenn jemand dich an die Idee schießt? Okay, kipp dich nicht später an, wenn du deine Idee hörst, die auf der Geschwindigkeit des Geräusches fließt, weil du nichts gerade gemacht hast. With Shopify, your first sale is closer than you think.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
If you didn't know this, Red Web, myself, we actually used Shopify in the past for our storefront and I really enjoyed the experience. It made it so simple to put the store together with the merchandise and everything and make it look exactly like we wanted to so it fit within our brand. And I love the fact that it allows you to turnkey solve ways to get your store on social media.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
That is a huge asset nowadays. You gotta have it. And I love how easy they make it all for you. established in 2025 has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash redweb, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash redweb to start selling with Shopify today. shopify.com slash redweb Tschüss!
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Think of therapy as your editorial partner, helping you write new chapters and create the meaningful story you deserve to live. In my experience, therapy is a helpful and powerful tool for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries and empower yourself to be the best version of you.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Sometimes you face challenges that you don't have the right tool sets for, and therapy can be a way to explore those solutions. I also enjoy how BetterHelp is built for finding the right therapist for you, making switching super convenient. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. BetterHelp.com slash RedWeb. Mit diesem Thema möchte ich auf die nächste Theorie eingehen, die im politischen Klima an dieser Zeit eine starke Rolle spielt. Vor der Wahl eines Mannes, Harold Holt verabschiedete sich mit Lyndon B. Johnson in Melbourne im Jahr 1942.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
There's like so many assassin movies where people are just walking down the street, somebody bumps into them, and then three seconds later they plop down on the ground. And it's just like, you know, this stuff happens in these 60s spies era. Like, who knows what kind of
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Nach diesem Treffen, viele Jahre später, im Juni 1966, verabschiedeten sich die beiden wieder, dieses Mal in der White House, nachdem Johnson Präsident wurde. So it was here that Holt announced that he was, quote, all the way with LBJ, showing support for LBJ's decision regarding the ongoing Vietnam War.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
However, by the latter months of 1967, the number of casualties of Australian soldiers in the war had nearly doubled. And in a 1985 documentary called The Harold Holt Mystery, Sir William McMahon and Australian Senator Don Chip speculate that Holt had changed his mind regarding Australia's involvement in the Vietnam War. Und so, von dieser theoretischen Friktion, spekulieren einige, dass...
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
This caused the CIA to launch a covert assassination attempt on Holt to prevent him from doing just that, from pulling his soldiers from the front lines and leaving the United States with this cataclysmic Vietnam War messaging issue, violence issue, all the wrappings that went into such a heated war.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
I mean, I'm with you, Theorist. I feel like you're trying to get into something. You're not wrong to connect some of these dots. Well, maybe, okay, you're not wrong, but like you're connecting some dots. The CIA has released some documents and declassified things that definitely make you raise your eyebrow. But I'm with you, Fredo.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
The man, as strong of a swimmer as he wants to be, he's not an Olympian triathlete, nor is he well equipped for 8-foot swells. That's just what my brain keeps going back to. We're talking about a time frame, we're approaching the 70s, we're talking about ice bullets and heart attack guns from the CIA.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
That sounds like way different than, yeah, we'll coax them out into the water and there we'll have Scuba Steve waiting underneath us. Yep, you didn't need to credit it, I know. No, you can't fool me. I know that's Eagle Eye. I know that's the Eagle Eye spin-off. Yeah, that shark is AI. Listen, if the CIA were planning something like this, which, listen, it...
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es macht einen Sinn, als ein besonderer Verschwörungstheorist, basierend auf einigen interessanten, gut erfundenen Fakten. Ich würde die 60er-Jahre-CIA nicht überlegen, etwas dieses Kalibers zu betrachten, wenn es eine genutztes Umfeld genug war. Ich meine, wir haben über diese selbe Verschwörungstheorie über JFK gesprochen. Und das ist nur ein paar Jahre vorher passiert. Weißt du, was ich meine?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das ist wahr. Das ist sehr wahr. Also sind wir nicht aus den Bäumen. Aber was ich beobachte, ist, dass eine sehr sophisticated Situation vorhanden ist. Du hast den Präsidenten in der Situation-Ruhe, du hast ca. 17 SEAL-6-Operativen auf der Bergseite mit ihren Eis-Bulleten, der Herz-Attack-Gun bereit zu gehen, geöffnet. in einem 50-Kal-Sniper, bereit, einfach zu poppen, weißt du?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Geh, das ist erheblich. Und dann schwimmt er da raus und sie sagen, ich glaube, egal, ich meine... Richtig, äh, die Wasser haben sie genommen. Chief, was tun wir? Richtig. Also, ich meine, du weißt, vielleicht haben sie es versucht und dann haben sie gesagt, ich weiß nicht, er ist schwimmen gegangen in scharfen Wasser. Ich glaube, das war das. Ich weiß nicht. Ja. Es ist eine große Theorie.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es ist eine flaschige Theorie. Aber ich mag es, ich liebe mir einige flaschige Theorien. Yes, it's got meat on that bone for entertainment value. But I think the unfortunate and sad reality is that this was just a passionate man who loves swimming, who unfortunately got too confident and lost his life going out to it. But with that, I do want to talk about some of the more...
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
earthy more mundane theories starting with one that kind of plays into what we're talking about right now and actually might add to it so at the time of his disappearance holt was actually taking medication for a previous shoulder injury you might be seeing where i'm heading
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Manche glauben, dass diese Schmerzmedikation mit seinem Kognitiv genug interferierte, um ihn zu verlieren, seine Aktionen zu verlieren, vielleicht Aktionen zu nehmen, die dann diese schmerzhaften Auswirkungen haben würden, ohne vollständig sicher zu sein, dass das den Einfluss hat, vielleicht zu viel Vertrauen zu haben oder einfach nicht.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Aber in dieser Theorie glauben andere, dass, obwohl sein Geist stark geblieben wäre, es tatsächlich sein Schulterschmerz war, das seine Fähigkeit verhinderte, in solch scharfem Wasser erfolgreich zu schwimmen, lediglich zu einem Unfall, in dem er nicht zurück schwimmen konnte. Er war also enttäuscht oder im Grunde genommen in offenen Wassern verletzt.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Unmöglich, zurückzukommen, setzte sich die Entzündung ein und dann hätte man den furchtbaren Tod und den folgenden Verlust.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
On a hot summer day in 1967, the Australian Prime Minister took a swim on a private beach with his friends, but never made it back to shore. After a massive manhunt, the disappearance that stunned the nation sparked many theories about the Prime Minister's whereabouts. Today, we're taking a look at the disappearance of Harold Holt. This is Red Web.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Richtig, richtig. Ich meine, ich habe schon vorher Surgen gehabt. Du gehst nach Hause mit einigen Schmerzmedikamenten. Und auch wenn du es nicht vollständig wissend bist, gibt es irgendeine Art von Spiel, die es auf dem Geist haben kann, besonders wenn es ein Opioid-basierter Schmerzkiller ist, etwas wie das. Aber...
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ich meine, ich bin auch mit dir, aber ich kann auch völlig sehen, dass das nur ein purer Unfall ist, dass er leider für einen Schwimm rausging, wiederum vielleicht ein bisschen zu traurig. Verletzungen abgesehen, ist es bereits eine sehr präzise und gefährliche Situation. Also gibt es das, aber es gibt noch eine Theorie. Okay.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Mm-hmm. This one's going to be very interesting, but before we dive in, as always, I want to give a huge shout-out to our Task Force members. The wind beneath our phoenix wings over at redwebpod.com. That's how you can access our Patreon, become an official Task Force member and support us directly. Get the podcast ad-free.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Also, manche spekulieren, dass im Endeffekt, wegen der steigenden politischen Drucken im Umfeld und der generellen Objectionen zu Australiens Einwanderung in der Vietnams-Wahl, Holt sein eigenes Leben genommen hat. Es ist auch glaubt, dass Holt mit Marjorie Gillespie in einem Verhandlungssache beteiligt war.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es gibt also eine Subtheorie darin, dass er vielleicht mit Gillespie weggehen wollte und in irgendeiner Art und Weise verschwunden wäre. Aber die Idee dieses extramaritärer Verhandlungssache, war tatsächlich durch den Fakt, dass Holts Frau, Zara, in ihren Memoirs geschrieben hatte, dass Holt eine große Anzahl von extramaritalen Verhältnissen hatte.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das fliegt in die Füße, was ich vorhin gesagt habe. Ich versuche nicht zu sagen, dass ich Holt kenne, aber ich möchte vielen seiner Freunde zu dem Zeitpunkt sagen, sagte, dass er nicht einfach aufstehen würde und seine Familie verlassen würde. Aber trotz dessen ist eine Menge dieser Theorie auf den Fakt, dass Zara sagt, dass er mehrere extramaritäre Verhältnisse hatte.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und das erzeugt die Idee, dass vielleicht etwas mit Gillespie passiert ist. Und von dort her war es offensichtlich spekuliert, dass Holt seinen eigenen Tod gefeuert hat, diesen falschen Suizid, um wieder mit Marjorie Gillespie zu verschwinden. und mit ihr in irgendeinem anderen Ort leben, aber es gibt keine Beweise dafür, dass dies nach seiner Verstorbenheit geschehen ist.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Zum Beispiel, ich meine, er blieb weg und sie blieb nicht weg. Richtig. Ich meine, sie konnte gesehen werden, aber wenn wir ein bisschen näher geschaut haben, sah es sich so aus, als ob sie eine ruhigere Leidenschaft lebt, weg von der Presse nach seiner Verstorbenheit. Das könnte aus Schmerzen gekommen sein. Es könnte, wenn Sie die Theorie glauben, gewesen sein. Because she was hiding something.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
But Zara, Holt's wife, stated that she was fully aware of Holt's affairs and simply turned a blind eye to them, these affairs, for the sake of their marriage as well as their three sons.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
So in the end, these are all the theories that attempt to answer what happened to Harold Holt. Of course, accident, suicide and government assassination, government spy, espionage kind of thing and disappearing to another nation. But ultimately, in 2005, the Victorian Coroner's Department opened an inquiry into Holt's death. This would be 40-ish almost years later.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es wurde beurteilt, dass Holts Körper entweder zu weit aus dem Meer ausgeworfen wurde oder vielleicht von Scharfen oder anderen Wildschweinen im Wasser verwendet wurde. Wiederum, das spielt in die Geschichte von Fuß und Schuhe ein, weil es natürlich ist, was passieren wird. Ja. Es gibt Biomasse im Ozean.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Genau, oder seine Freundin. Ja, seine Freundin, ja.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Get the exclusive show Movie Club, where Fredo and I and the team break down horror movies from classic to crap. We go into all of it. Similar format to this show. We have the Discord with Discord events, all sorts of goodies. We do have our exclusive Discord event this Wednesday, January 22nd, 2025 from 12 to 1 p.m. Central Time. We like to move the time around.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Genau.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, besonders in diesem fehlenden Umfeld.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Richtig. Ich meine, es ist ein Teil des fast öffentlichen Begräbungsprozesses. Wie kann man einen Tod akzeptieren? Wie kann man akzeptieren, dass, du weißt, Holt wurde als der erste moderne Premierminister Australiens bezeichnet.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Also, obwohl er 22 Monate im Büro verbracht hat, die Tatsache, dass er in der Landschaft gewonnen hat, die Tatsache, dass er in seiner Partei grundsätzlich unabhängig war, die Tatsache, dass er nicht wirklich eine Lack von Unterstützung von seinen Mitgliedern hatte, zeigte, dass, wie gesagt, Da gab es eine Liebe, oder zumindest eine Unterstützung von den Bürgerinnen und Bürgern.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Wie kommt man mit dem Fakt, dass jemand, auf den man sich befindet, so groß ist, dass er einfach wegfällt? Oder einfach zu einem Unfall fällt? Es ist zu... einfach, glaube ich, oder es ist zu furchtbar, weil das dann jedem passieren kann. Aber das ist die Realität, weißt du? Keiner ist immun zum Tod und keiner ist sicher von nur den Verletzungen, die in der Leben passieren können. Genau.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Also denke ich, dass es natürlich ist, dass Menschen wollen, dass sie sagen, nein, nein, nein, es muss etwas anderes sein. Es muss sein. Und ich verstehe das. Ich denke, es ist faszinierend und ich denke, das hilft, es zu füllen. Yeah, I'm with you. I think that this case is just truly unfortunate. A man went out to sea, had an accident and that's the end of that.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
But, you know, I can't help but acknowledge some of these very, very interesting, very interesting stories.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
That's what I like to think. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. But who knows? But who knows, indeed. When an alien comes down, you know I'm going to run at it. My passion will light me up. But you'll know what happened. Because I'm telling you now, I ain't coming back. I'm going with her. I'm going with her, Mom. I'm coming back. I'm coming. But yeah, man, very fascinating case.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
And again, there's something just, I think, fundamentally human, fundamentally scary to a society when such a large figure disappears. You know, accident can befall anybody. And there's something just like really, sociologically speaking, fascinating about this case. I think I've tipped my hand a few times over some of these cases where, yeah, it feels straightforward.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Yeah, there's some mystery here, some interesting theories. I'm not one to purport a bunch of conspiracies, but I think... Wenn du sie durch die Lens des Studiums anschaust, wie die Leute zu Dingen reagieren, was in den Zeitgeist endet, was die Gedanken einer Generation verändert, denke ich, dass das alles so faszinierend ist. Was macht diesen Tick? Was macht das passieren?
Red Web
Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
That way we have varying accessibilities to people around the world. But join us by going to redwebpod.com, sign up on our Patreon. It is an exclusive benefit just for supporting us. So thank you so much and we'll see you there. We're looking over all sorts of UFO footage, debunking it, question marking it, validating it? Is there going to be fishing line? We'll find out. Join us on Wednesday.
Red Web
Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ich denke, das ist so faszinierend wie das, was sein könnte oder was passiert ist. Genau. Yeah. But with that, Fredo, this has been The Disappearance of Harold Holt Task Force. Thank you all so much, as always, for listening, supporting and sharing us. That's the number one way to do it. If you want to support this show, there's a lot of ways, right, Fredo?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
You can review this show, you can share it with friends and family and loved ones, people that you want to indulge in these mysteries with, the what could be, the what has been, the what are. Oh, yeah. Aliens, they are. But there's also, of course, store.redwebpod.com.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
You also have redwebpod.com itself, which is our Patreon page, where we have monthly store discounts, depending on the tier you're at. All sorts of goodies. Fredo, tell them a little bit about Movie Club. Yeah, Movie Club.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
So it's been a lot of fun. This month was actually the full gambit. We hit up Disney Channel Original Movie. Don't look under the bed. Everyone knows it. Don't become a boogeyman. Believe in your imaginary friends. And an immaculate movie. Christian, unfortunately we recorded this one while you were out. But it's called Memories of a Murder from director Bong Joon-ho.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
If you don't know that name, they did Parasite, which is another fantastic film. Incredible, incredible movie. So come check it out with us.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Absolut. Danke euch so viel. Und Fredo, mit dem gesagt, ich werde dich gleich wieder hier am nächsten Montag für yet another Mystery sehen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
But that's what you get over there. Shoutouts to BuffMinds, Ernesto, DeathlikeCrypt, Brad Budd, and of course our monthly Squonk-Shoutouts, just to name a few. We got Broman, Clint from PS3, Tucker Did It, Bwick, and Brett O'Meara. Thank you guys so much. RedWebPod.com. Fredo with that. Let me take you back to the 60s.
Red Web
Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
We're starting with a man, Harold Holt, who was the 17th Prime Minister of Australia. Holt served as the Prime Minister for 22 months, being inaugurated on January 26th, 1966, until his disappearance on December 17th, 1967. So not even two years.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Früher als er gewählt wurde, arbeitete er unter dem ehemaligen Bundespräsidenten Australiens, und auch der längst stehende Bundespräsident in Australien, Robert Mingus. Holt war also viel jünger und prognostizierter als Australiens ehemaliger Leiter. Er wurde generell gut genannt und bezeichnet als ein, Quote, Luft aus frischem Wasser von vielen seiner Angehörigen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Holt arbeitete als Leiter der liberalen Partei Australiens und wurde unabhängig von der liberalen Partei als Leiter gewählt und gewann die Generalwahl durch einen Schlag gegen die Labour-Party-Leiter Arthur Caldwell. Also ist das im Grunde eine blickhafte Bildung davon, wer er damals als Leiter war, weil ich meine, ich möchte ein bisschen von diesem politischen Grundwerk legen. Richtig.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Weißt du, wenn wir zu den Theorien kommen, müssen wir auf all diese kleinen Motive schauen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es ist sehr gruselig und ich weiß nicht, ob es die Erwachsenheit ist und mehr Aufmerksamkeit verdient und politisch literativer wird, oder ob es nur die Zeiten sind und Dinge verändern, weil, weißt du, die Zeiten, sie verändern sich immer. Aber Mann, wenn ich nur für eine andere furchtbare Generation der Politik gehen könnte, könnte ich hier einfach etwas Furchtbares bekommen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das ist eine tolle Frage. Das ist ein sehr validierter Punkt. Denn die Aufmerksamkeit auf alles ist auf einem allzeit hohen Niveau. Aber auch die Aufmerksamkeit auf Missinformation und aktive Uninformation ist auf einem allzeit hohen Niveau. Also, ich weiß nicht, Mann. Ja, das ist... Das ist eine blöde Frage, aber du bist dran. Das war Harold Holt in einem kurzen Abschnitt. Um 12 Uhr am 17.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Dezember 1967 hat Holt entschieden, an der Cheviot Beach zu schwimmen. Ich habe ein Bild für dich, und das ist in Port C, Viktoria. Das ist also das erste Bild. Die Taskforce ist wie immer auf unseren sozialen Medien, redwebpod, oder auf der YouTube-Upload.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Das könnte Teil der Suche nach Cheviot Beach sein. Aber das gibt dir eine Idee, wie die Fläche aussieht. Du schaust nicht ins Wasser, aber um dir eine Idee zu geben, wie das Gebiet aussieht.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Mhm. Ja, okay. Viele Leute auf der Suche. Absolut. Du kannst es von der Raubigkeit des Beaches sehen. Es ist nicht wie einer dieser sandigen Beache, wo du deine Toilette und Sunbathe legst. Nein, gar nicht. Sehr schrecklich. Ehrlich gesagt, ein bisschen ähnlich wie San Francisco. Ja. Sehr schreckliche Beache. Ja, genau. Ich würde sagen, das sind nicht leckere Beache.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es ist kalt wie hell, die ganze Zeit. Ja. Wie gesagt, in einem vorherigen Video habe ich einen Finger in die Wasser im SF gesteckt. Und das ist so weit, wie ich ging.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Willkommen zurück, Task Force, zu einem weiteren Episode von Red Web, dem Podcast über ungeschlossene Geheimnisse, echten Kram und das Supernaturale. Ich bin euer residenter Geheimnisse-Enthusiast, Trevor Collins. Kommt mit mir, um dieses Geheimnis für das erste Mal zu hören, Alfredo Diaz.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Wie viele Suets hast du an? Wahrscheinlich 15. Hör auf, es gibt einen Grund, warum Alcatraz in diesen Wassern war. Okay, das ist wahr. Ja, verdammt nicht. Du fliegst nicht durch das. Oder bist du? Anyway, this is an interesting, if not ironic fact.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
So, Cheviot Beach got its name from the SS Cheviot, a ship that 80 years prior to Holt's disappearance actually wrecked and unfortunately killed 35 people in the area. So, it's almost like... It was destined for a darker history. The ship and its propeller actually became disabled in the open sea area. And subsequently it wrecked on the beach.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
And then when rescuers finally reached the boat, their efforts caused parts of the boat to break apart and finish sinking into the water. A story for another day, to be sure. But that's kind of how this beach got its name. Interesting, because it's kind of a traumatic origin story for this name, right? I would have thought it's like, oh, there's some... Explorer stumble down into this grotto.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
It's nice, it's pleasant. Right, no, not so much. Okay, so Harold Holtz was at the beach that day with his neighbor Marjorie Gillespie, her daughter Viner and two friends, Alan Stewart and Martin Simpson. So Marjorie, Alan and Martin all noted just how rough the waters were that particular day. However, Holt was an avid and strong swimmer and decided to enter the water for a swim regardless.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Now reportedly, Holt was so into swimming and taking this stuff so seriously that he would actually practice holding his breath during Parliament as a way to strengthen his lungs and his diaphragm and kind of improve his swimming when he went on his frequent snorkeling trips.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, absolut. Ich meine, ich würde meinen Atem im Parlament für alle Art und Weise halten, wie nicht an mich zu klingeln. Ich verstehe nicht, worüber du sprichst. Ich habe nicht gelesen, das 15.000-Page-Dokument, das du vor mir gestellt hast. Schrecklicher Student, dieser Mann. Nicht an mich zu klingeln. Ich habe mein Homework nicht gemacht.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und dann, wenn mich jemand mit meinem Atem klingelt, würde ich sagen, ja, ich schnauze, weißt du, also wer weiß. So, this is an interesting tidbit. As Holt is approaching the water, this is almost his final, last known sentence that he says.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Right before entering the water, he commented to his friends, who were kind of saying, maybe you shouldn't do this, quote, I know this beach like the back of my hand. Holt schwamm dann weit in die See, nachdem die anderen Ärzte wieder hinter sich geblieben sind, wegen der starken Strömung. Und innerhalb von Minuten verlor die Gruppe Holt.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Sie endeten auf einer hohen Rock-Formation zu steigen, die ich noch einmal habe. Ich habe ein Bild für dich. Es ist wie Pride Rock. Sie steigen auf es auf, um versuchen zu bekommen, einen besseren Abstandspunkt über diese hohen Wälder auf der Straße zu bekommen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, nein, geh von dort runter, bitte! Also, ja, sie steigen da hoch, um einen besseren Abstandspunkt zu bekommen, weil diese Wälder, ich spreche über sie in einer Minute hier, aber sie sind so, die Wälder sind so hoch, aber wirklich, du hast recht.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ich meine, wenn du über diese Rock-Formationen im Wasser sprichst, wenn du frothige, weiße Wasser siehst, weißt du, dass es einfach die Macht dieser Wälder ist. Sie interessieren sich nicht, ob die Wälder da sind. Diese Dinge essen sich an den Wäldern über die Zeit. Und die Leute verschwinden in kurzen Sekunden, wenn sie in diesen kleinen, schwarzen Wäldern enden.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Es braucht nur einen falschen Wind, um dich rauszuholen, dich unterzuholen, dich unterzuholen, dich rauszuholen, was auch immer. Es ist so furchtbar. Glücklicherweise ist das auf der Straße, also sind die Wälder nicht so schlecht hier. Aber ja, Alter, es ist etwas, das du wirklich überlegen musst. Ja, sehr einfach könnte es ziemlich schlecht sein. Oh Gott, ich hasse das.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und es gibt etwas über Thalassophobie, wo du auch Angst hast vor offenen Wasser. Oh, ja. Ja, das gibt mir die großen Hebe-Jeebes. Ich habe letztens gelernt, gerade während wir darüber reden, dass 60 Prozent der Planeten das Twilight-Zone sind, das No-Light-Zone des Ozeans. Und es macht 80 Prozent des Ozeans selbst. Und es gibt einfach so viele Planeten, die Gott weiß was in ihnen ist. Ich weiß.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Und ich bin einfach so, nein, Kthulhu und all diese Sachen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, und Dinge können grundsätzlich unendlich groß werden. Wir haben das Quartiergesetz oder was auch immer auf der Erde, wo die Gravität unsere Hindernis ist. Sobald du die Größe eines Elefanten bekommst, riskierst du, dich unter der Gravität zu zerstören oder unendliche Energie zu benötigen, um dich zu unterstützen, aber es funktioniert nicht unter Wasser. Also wirst du diese...
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Diese enormen Lovecraftian-Horrors da unten, bin ich sicher. Ansonsten, mein Schmerz besagt, zurück zum Fall. Holt entscheidet sich ums Schwimmen zu gehen und er ist sicher, weil er hier vorher schon schwamm. Er ist sehr mit diesen Wäldern kennengelernt. Er ist ein sicherer und starker Schwimmer. Ich bin raus, richtig?
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Gillespie berichtete, dass die Verschmutzung so schnell stattfand, dass sie fast blinken konnte. Sie sagte also, dass das Wasser ihn fast aufgelöst hatte. Sie sagte, dass sie seinen Kopf nicht mehr sehen konnte. Und dann war er weg. Stuart suchte dann Hilfe, und innerhalb von Minuten hat er drei Scuba-Diver gegründet, um Hilfe zu bekommen.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Jedoch war die Unterfläche so stark, dass sie auch die Suche verlassen mussten. So not only do we have these giant crashing waves, we have an undertow, an undercurrent that will pull you out and hold you out until you're exhausted and can't come back.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Ja, Mann. Ich meine, du musst lernen, diese Ripptide von der Beach zu sehen, weißt du? Ja. Wenn die Wälder nicht brechen, wie sie auf der Beach sind, bist du vielleicht an einem Ripptide. Es wird dich ausziehen, all diese Art von Sachen. Aber Suche und Rettung, Mann, ich bin so beeindruckt. Also haben wir diese drei Scuba-Diver. Ich sollte sagen, das ist es, worauf ich beeindruckt bin.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
Sie haben drei Scuba-Diver gefunden. Sie sind da rausgekommen, haben zumindest ein bisschen versucht, verstanden, dass es zu gefährlich war. The search and rescue teams were then deployed within the hour. Also pretty impressive. But again, the heavy current and the thrashing waters made their efforts extremely difficult.
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Disappearance of Harold Holt | How Australia's Prime Minister Vanished Without a Trace
The waves were so rough that for safety reasons, the search could not carry on long into the night. Of course, right? Visibility low, waves going crazy. They decided to halt shortly after darkness fell. And we tried to look up when that specific time would have been. Fotos zeigen, dass sie zumindest ein bisschen in die Nacht gesucht haben.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've done micro episodes within episodes. You know, we've covered so many of their cases. You're right. They're like synonymous when it comes to paranormal investigation. And within that, I give some caveats, some background, some of the claims as to why they might be frauds, some of the talks about their history.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You know, these things, when we pass, we're just staring into these black mirrors, sucking in our souls. Oh, yeah. But here's the thing. This occult museum of theirs was really interesting. It featured a collection of haunted items from many of their investigations, including And it has since shut down. And we'll talk about that when it comes up on the timeline.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But yeah, my fiance actually went to this museum with a friend of ours during the Annabelle press junket when that movie was coming out. And she was so... Listen, she's not a firm believer, but she's kind of like you in that sense of like, I don't want to mess with it. And so she just didn't even look at the Annabelle doll. She goes, yeah, I'm good. It's... Like, why would you? Yeah, yeah.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
5,000? No, hell no. Okay, somewhere in between 5,000 and a million, Christian. Keep marking down the notes. Narrowing it down. Narrowing it down. Okay. So at some point while visiting these houses, again, we're still in the budding careers now as paranormal investigators, Lorraine begins to learn more about her clairvoyancy.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Meaning that she starts to realize she can speak to the dead, she can sense these spirits, and she begins to hold some of these seances. And again, I want to be very truthful. It's hard to pin down when exactly these things happened, when these claims were first reported, when we try to look at all the different sources.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But along these same lines, Ed is also teaching himself about demonology and using supernatural literature, his own faith, to kind of instill some of that knowledge. And per their autobiography, he actually was known to correct some of the books where he felt they were wrong. Which kind of creates a weird catch 22 for me.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
If you're learning from these books and yes, your faith, you see something wrong in the book. It's kind of weird then to be like to teach the teacher kind of thing.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, I didn't really find any examples of specific corrections that they had made to books, but it is interesting. I mean, I don't know if that's mostly their faith speaking or if it's mostly their own experience coming to the table.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But speaking of faith, the Warrens were devout Catholics and their faith played a large role during their paranormal investigations, as is pretty clear when you see the films or you look at any of their interviews about their experiences. For example, they would often contact the church to perform exorcisms, you know, the right of exercising a demon from a person or from a house, a location. Right.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And to quote the Warrens on the purpose behind the entities they investigated, right? What was the motive for them going to these places? We wanted a little glean behind the insight, right? They said this, these entities, quote, end quote. So they saw it as stepping in to interfere with these otherworldly entities that were otherwise trying to oppose the wholesome and good works of God, right?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And we figured behind the scenes, talking to Jillian, talking to Christian... It was time. The number one movie podcast about mysteries had to talk about the people that inspired the Conjuring universe, Ed and Lorraine Warren. And man, this one's going to be really interesting because we uncovered some stones we didn't expect to uncover.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So it really is primarily faith-based is their motive here. As they became more experienced in paranormal investigations, they began to give lectures in towns and universities in the 1960s. I believe this is how the first Conjuring film actually opens, with the actor who portrays Ed kind of speaking at a university to a class of students or something like that.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
It's kind of a fuzzy memory at this point, but it does capture some of that. At some point during their investigations over the decades, the Warrens had claimed to have investigated over 10,000 hauntings during their lives. We can't find one and they've on 10,000. That's wild. Listen, we can hear a bump in the night.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
We can get a flashlight to flicker, but we're talking about 10,000 hauntings that they've investigated.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
That is an amazing question.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah. So if we start at 1952 when Nesper was first founded and we go all the way to 2006 when Ed passed away and we're talking about inclusive all the way up to that day. 10,000 hauntings over those 54 odd years, that comes out to around 50.7% of that time. Meaning that for those 54 years, every other day is investigating an active haunted location. So yes, they might be exaggerating.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I don't want to sit here and be like, they're lying. It's an exaggeration, I'm sure. Right. But there's a nugget here, a nudge that is worth kind of catching on, right? Yeah.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, interesting, because they definitely did revisit locations and travel internationally, which would definitely put a damper on that number. But either way, 10,000 hauntings, you're right. They did become the household name, especially, especially in 1970, when they would gain national recognition after they visited the Annabelle doll. Of course, we have an image for you of this doll.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And we did a whole episode on this particular case. But this is the one that launched them into the limelight, became the people that anytime there was something paranormal, it was ring the warrens. And we've seen that in so many cases we've covered.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
We're going to walk through their history, kind of how they got started, who they are as much as we know. Some of their occult items, some of their major cases. Of course, we've talked about several of those in their own episodes. But then as we wrap up, we're going to talk about the other sides of the Warrens. They do have an infamous reputation. They have helped some people.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Exquisite observation, Fredo. This goes back to an ancient argument between man, the catfish, and the owl. If you're an old fan of the task force, you'll know that owls are sinister entities, and I didn't notice that was there. And now that you've pointed it out, I feel vindicated a little bit. Yeah, for sure. There's an owl in this museum!
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, kind of. Yeah, kind of like a birdhouse, but blessed. I feel like, and this is kind of firing from the hip, I believe when Barbara came back from visiting this museum, she said that there would be a person or people that would come, I believe, like every month that would re-bless this containment unit to prevent the entity that imbibed the doll from getting out. But
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You know, we've covered this case in a previous episode. If you want all the gruesome details, okay, it's not gruesome, but all the spooky details about Annabelle, please check that out. But I'll give you a crash course here. In short, yes, it was a Raggedy Ann doll that was said to be haunted by the spirit of a young girl named Annabelle.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Initially, this doll was given to a student nurse as a present, and eventually the doll began exhibiting signs of the paranormal when it would change positions, move around the house, be kneeling in front of a door, and then began writing childlike messages in a childlike handwriting, and it would say, help us.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
things eventually got more frightening and as you know that's when the warrens were contacted and when they arrived they claimed the doll was not possessed by a young girl but instead the spirit of an ancient demon disguising themselves they concluded this for two reasons For one, after they arrived, one of the roommates was actually attacked and scratched.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And two, according to the Warrens, spirits can only possess people, whereas these inhuman spirits, they call them, can possess inanimate objects. And this is where I want to quote their semi-autobiographical book, The Demonologist. And in there, they describe two types of spirits. Quote, one is human. The other, however, is inhuman.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
They have arguably hurt some cases. And we've talked about the very candidly in those episodes. But we're going to address the claims of fraud and some of the other more sinister claims about their lives. There is a lot of opinion around these two. And so we're going to go right down the middle, talking about everything as factually as possible.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
An inhuman spirit is something that has never walked the earth in human form. End quote. And so from all of this, it starts to show some of their knowledge they've gained over the years. It starts to show their confidence in describing or diagnosing these spirits, saying human spirits can't do this. They can't sit there in a doll. And so this has to be something else.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And then, of course, they took the doll back to the museum, but not without much to do because I believe Ed was almost veered off the road, he believes, by this doll while driving it back to their home museum.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yes, that's one of the stories we cover in the episode. Yeah, there was a couple who was driving a motorcycle and the female partner is saying, no, don't make fun of it, what have you. She's a little bit terrified of this item. And the guy is like, ah, it's just a doll. And he definitely makes fun of it, pokes at it, taunts it. And then on their way out, yep, they almost crash.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And I believe they do crash, but they like it could have been fatal, something to that effect. But after this, you know, the Annabelle doll became the main attraction at the museum. It rocketed them into fame. And of course, many other cases came to them looking for some sort of answers. But as you described, she's in this case. It's been blessed.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So that way, whatever is possessing this doll can no longer get out. They did try an exorcism on this doll, but they don't believe that it worked entirely. Hence some of the incidents that have followed this doll. But you're right, it does also wrap around where it says, quote, warning, positively do not open. Right. So today, the Warren's son-in-law, Tony Spura, runs the museum as well as Nesper.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
He had begun working with the couple in the 1980s. And the reason for him taking over is because I believe he studied or trained under Ed Warren directly. Whereas Judy kind of wanted nothing to do with this. Even as a kid, the house unsettled her. She didn't want anything to do with the paranormal. And so he kind of took over.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, since then, as I've indicated, the museum has closed as of 2019 due to zoning laws. I believe in 2018, it just started becoming so popular. There was so much foot traffic on an otherwise residential lot that their neighbors began to kind of complain. And so they have since shut down.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But some of these items have gone around the United States as a traveling sort of thing to display periodically. But I want to talk about some of the items that were in this museum before talking about some of the notable cases. All right. Two of the objects actually come from a an episode that we did recently on the devil made me do it case.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
We're going to address everything as candidly as possible. But sources do vary on a lot of things. It's really hard to pin down some actual facts. And we're going to be very transparent about all of it. But this is a very interesting topic. You're right. We've covered a lot of these cases. But I forgot in a past life you had actually interviewed these guys.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And that's where 11 year old David Glatzel became possessed. And then Arnie Cheyenne Johnson stepped in to say, no, take me instead of the boy. And so he felt he was possessed. A murder took place. And this is the case where in the courtroom he's saying, well, the devil made me do it. Right. I was possessed. Hence the murder.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So the two items, there is a toy dinosaur that belonged to David Glatzel. It is said to have levitated and declared, you're all going to die before then falling to the ground. And the other item is actually what's called the devil's rocking chair, believed to be a conduit for the devil.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And they think maybe this is how the devil entered the picture in the first place to find David and eventually Arnie. And then so goes the story. Of course, we did a whole episode on that. Two other items that I found very interesting that I hadn't heard of before.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
We have the Pearls of Death, which is a cursed necklace said to have strangled its original wearer, and it was sealed away so no one could ever wear it or touch it again because anyone who came in contact with this necklace were said to experience misfortune or near-death incidents.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah. A lot of the objects in this museum feel very similar in the threats, in the curses, because the conjure chest is another one of them. This curse chest is said to have killed at least 16 people through illness, murder, or strange accidents. It's all attributed back to the usage of this chest, touching it, storing things in it.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And the Warrens believed it to be one of the most cursed items that they had. essentially on par with the Annabelle doll. Thus, it was never openly displayed and they had many protective measures around this trunk, much like they do with the Annabelle doll.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
hey buy one get one you can get all my old stuff listen i got this beautiful pearl necklace and a large trunk all for five bucks you want it you in on this someone's gonna take it listen someone's gonna be in on that and you gotta you got yourself a movie in a sequel right there right and you're just selling your curse to somebody else which i doubt's that easy Sure.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But I'm like, I don't know, man. I want to know more. I feel like that's part of the intrigue that surrounds the Warrens is because all of these stories are so gripping, terrifying. They feel like they have and can happen to anybody.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But with that said, let's talk about some of their notable cases. You know, and of course, we've covered many of them, many of their more famous cases, like the Perrin family. This would also be known as the Conjuring House. Amityville, right? The murder that took place in that infamous house. The Snedeker haunting, also known as the haunting in Connecticut.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The Annabelle doll, the trial of Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, and the Enfield poltergeist, which I believe was Conjuring 2, the one that took place in England.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
right yeah and that the the old man that haunted the like kids the daughters yes the the crooked man was that what it was there was that was introduced that was introduced yeah yeah but you're right that's the one and we'll talk about all of these but yeah the enfield poltergeist was the one where the daughter was kind of being thrown out of the bed and was speaking in a very guttural voice yes there's audio recordings too
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yes. Yes. In that one. You know, I'm going to jump to that one because, again, we we did full episodes on all the ones I just mentioned. But in that particular episode, which I encourage you to check out, I made a time lapse of all the images of her kind of being thrown out of the bed because I'm like, listen, this is very gripping. It's very intriguing. I'm not here again to be a wet blanket.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I desperately want to experience something poltergeisty or otherworldly. Yes. But I got to know that if I experience it, that it's the real deal.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Truly. So in that case, kind of made that time lapse and it does look like she's jumping out of the bed. We've talked and we'll get into this case actually when we approach the idea of them being frauds and some of the other things that kind of attack their reputation. And rightly so. There is a lot of things I'm very interested to get to in there.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And we were very forthcoming about those theories in that particular case. But again, I digress. Let's dive into some of these cases just to give you a refresher. I really want this to be a starting point, no matter if you've heard our episodes before, if this is your first one. So let's talk about some of these cases. The Perron family.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Oh, okay. Okay. So the people who acted as Ed and Lorraine.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
In 1971, the Perron family moved into a Rhode Island house dating back to 1763, and they started having almost immediately strange events happening in the house. I do have an image of this house, and it does very much evoke the imagery of the original movie.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I believe so. My memory is admittedly a little rocky, but yes.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, there was like a small connection, but I think, yeah, one of them was the original original going back to 1763. Now, the Warrens claimed an evil spirit of a witch was haunting this home, in addition to many people who had died there of strange deaths on the property.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So they said this property was kind of clouded, not only by this witch, but also all of the essentially odd deaths that had happened around. And Andrea, one of the children said, said to the Providence Journal, quote, Lorraine stepped into the kitchen and said, subquote, I feel a dark presence and her name is Bathsheba, end quote. So the Warrens had visited this home many times.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Lorraine even performed a seance at the Perron home. But Carolyn, at this point in the entire journey, the mother, was reportedly possessed during this seance and was then thrown across the room, After this, Robert, the family father, kicked the Warrens out of the house saying, that's enough. We don't need any more of this. We're exciting this entity more than it needs to be.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Nothing's being fixed. Let's just be done with this. And I believe they moved out.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Okay. I was going to say, if you crossed over to the other side and began talking to a ghost hunter as a ghost, we would have had some sort of metaphysical... What a bomb the drug was. All right. Well, as we dive in, as always, I want to say that we've been rolling out the video format of this podcast where possible. So it started on Patreon.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You got a physical woman being thrown around the room. Right. That's just and a loved one at that. That's terrifying. And you're like, listen, open and close a door. Bang in the attic. Blow my candles out. Let's leave it at that. Let's not be throwing mom around. Yeah.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Right. Now let's move on to Amityville. In 1975, the Lutz family moved into the infamous house, I have an image of that for you here to take a look at, where the brutal murder had taken place. Ronald DeFeo Jr. had killed his entire family just the year prior, and the Lutz family claimed to have paranormal experiences soon after moving in.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The Warrens assisted other paranormal investigators in this particular case. So they had less direct involvement than usual, but their notoriety of the case, the notoriety of the Warrens kind of built upon each other and just made this whole case more infamous, especially since we had almost like a repeat spree of murder.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And so it felt very much like a true possession where this old spirit from a previous year was reenacting this crime.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
morbidly enough yeah which is like not great but also man how do you buy a home that much right dude you know especially because it must be public information or just infamous at that point i believe in this house too there is a very well-known photo of and again i don't know if this is from the warrens but it's definitely from investigators around that time period It's a black and white photo.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
It's showing a door that's kind of ajar. And it's one of the most pointed to photos that supposedly prove the idea of a spirit being there because there is some kind of blurring and some shading. But it looks very clearly like a young boy with glowing eyes looking out this kind of bedroom door that's open.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And that was that imagery was pulled for the Conjuring 2 opening, which takes place at the Amityville house. And it does look a little bit like one of the boys who passed from this crime, who was murdered in this house.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You know it's not a little boy if it's got them demon eyes.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
okay okay let's get you braved up let's get you like let's get you to a point where you can like just shrug off these hauntings yeah to the point where you see it and you just brush it off like you didn't to the point where i'm just kind of reckless right what yeah you're reckless but you're also aggravating this demon he starts doing stuff like in front of you and the tv and you're like i don't see it great great reviews just me the hell out of some demons and stuff
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
What would a demon do at that point, you know?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You get to see these kind of things first as we beta test. We pilot some stuff over at redwebpod.com. And speaking of our Patreon, I want to shout out some of our Task Force members that support us directly. We have the Chavez Brothers and, of course, our Squonks. We shout out every month, Broman, G, and Andy Schrock, just to name a few. Interesting. All right. Interesting.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Oh, sure, sure.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I feel like they would be unmoved. In fact, if it was a demon, it'd probably just pop both your ankles so you couldn't run. You know what I mean?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Okay. Well, moving on. Let's talk now about this Smurl haunting. Now, this was actually one of the investigations that the Warrens co-wrote a book on. Now, the Smurl haunting took place in West Pitson, Pennsylvania, and the family moved into this duplex in 1973. Wow. And at first they noticed things going missing, you know, things maybe moving into a room that they didn't move themselves.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And eventually they started to hear disembodied voices. They started seeing shadow figures. And to me, this is when you can be brave. This is when you can ignore it because you start paying attention to it. And stories say this is when the energy builds off your attention and things get worse. Well, things got a lot worse. Yeah, there it is.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So I have an image for you here if you want to check it out while I describe this scene. But like I said, things got worse. The dog, some of the furniture, all thrown across the room. To the point where one of the lights fell out of the ceiling and actually injured one of the individuals in the house.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And things got even more sinister because some of the family actually reported sexual assaults by the ghosts. So, of course, they contacted the Warrens in 1986, and Ed claimed a very powerful demon haunted the house. It used three other spirits to torment the Smurl family. And after multiple seances and exorcisms, the Smurls gave up on the house, and they left in 1987.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
so it was so bad that nothing they could do could fix it and as you're seeing in this image we have chairs stacked up on high that had once been thrown across the room and much like many poltergeists it is said that drawers will open and suddenly spoons and utensils and dishes will be hanging from the ceiling i believe that's part of what is happening in this image
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah. Moving on now to the haunting in Connecticut. After the Snedeker family moved into the house in Connecticut, they reported paranormal activity as well. There's an image for you here of the house. And as you take a look at that, here's how the brief version of the story went.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Activity in this house included apparitions, unexplained voices, and alleged physical attacks, especially targeting the family's eldest son, who was at the time undergoing cancer treatment. They soon discovered that the home was once a funeral home, which the Warrens claimed practiced necromancy.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The hit list changes every week. I keep you on your toes.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Absolutely. I believe in the basement, the children found chains that were related to that initial funeral home business. And the kids started to feel odd about the basement. Not really happy. You know, kind of being scared of it, essentially. And so I almost feel like you just have to have a trusted child with you when you go house hunting so they can really feel out the aura of a place.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
There's something about the pure mind of a child that hasn't been tampered with by society that they can feel out these sinister entities if they're there. You know, they can just sense when something's off.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So they would just feel it and then they'd go, yeah, you can buy that house. And then they'd tell you after. Yeah. Yeah. These kids. So a lesser known case that the Warrens wrote about was the South End werewolf. There is an image for this one as well. This is an image of Bill Ramsey of Essex, England, who had episodes of animal-like behavior, growling, biting, and aggression.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
He had dreams of wolves and saw a wolf in the mirror when he was looking at it during these episodes that he was experiencing. So even in the mirror, while he's having these episodes, he doesn't see himself. He sees instead a wolf.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You're just going to have instead of like some sort of serial killer with like fingers on the wall, it's just going to be vials of water as you've melted all the squonks. Yeah, those vials. And as we dive into this episode, I want to say that there are a list of sensitive topics available in the description.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Dang, that's possible.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But have you ever seen the movie Split?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I mean, maybe the beast is real. If this man can climb a vertical wall, maybe rip some iron bars apart.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
it is interesting i hadn't heard of this case before but this was something that the warrens kind of stumbled into when they were visiting london they heard about ramsey's situation they believed he was possessed that it was actually again more of a demon less of this werewolf situation they brought him back to connecticut they performed multiple exorcisms on ramsey where he reportedly turned into an actual werewolf again
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Jury's still out. I want that evidence. Why weren't they filming in high quality Super 8? Hello? Yeah. Where's the footage? The photos? Or even just like a recording. Just I want to get ears on the ground. But during his last public appearance in 1992, he was symptom free. So it could have been psychosomatic. We're not here to assess each of these cases. We do that in each of their own episodes.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But could have been something that he truly believed. And it could have been trauma response. It could have just been any sort of thing. Right. Psychology is a fast and interesting subject. But but yeah. And so whatever happened here might have helped them out.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
All right, so this episode has a lot of images, a lot of things I want to point to, and I'll reference those out the gate. But we do have one here of Edward Warren Miney, who was born in 1926, as well as his wife, Lorraine Rita Moran, as she was born, who was born in 1927. So here's the couple on what appears to be a Halloween season.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So let's move into the final section, and the reason kind of why we wanted to talk about Ed and Lorraine Warren separately, because I felt like every time we approached them, each of the cases had some sort of riddling of decrying fraud or some sort of problematic angle on it that I felt just... earned its own conversation.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And I didn't want to kind of belabor each of those previous paranormal discussions and stories with this. So let's talk about it.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The Warrens had many critics over the years. Of course, as you know, Fredo, there are many believers, many skeptics. We find ourselves straddling that middle ground, you and I. Where we want to believe, but we also don't want to mess with it, but we want to have a little bit more of a scientific grounded foundation.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, many of these critics actually said that their investigations were simply fraudulent. Others go so far to say as their investigations were predatory, profiting off the situations of others while making it worse in many of those cases. For example, as I was kind of hinting at and getting ahead of myself with, we covered the Enfield Poltergeist.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I feel like they leaned into the imagination of the daughter in that case, who was admittedly going through a lot, and they validated what she might have been feeling, what she might have been experiencing. In fact, they might have planted the idea of being possessed by a demon in
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
which would only cause her to further act out much to her detriment to her mental health, sometimes the physical health. And so we talk about that more in detail in that episode. Now, this is a part where I found it kind of shocking. And the reason why I wanted to put some of these sensitive topics in the description, because this part I truly had no idea about.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, of course, we know that they used their faith in many of these cases. It was their motivator. It was a lot of the reasoning behind these entities was demons and their study of demonology. But some believe their use of the Catholic faith was all an act. Now, there's a lot of gruesome details to dive into. Lawsuits were filed, but not a lot of those details go public.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So we'll keep it pretty succinct. But suffice to say, Ed Warren has allegations of sexual abuse of a child in addition to allegations of physical abuse against Lorraine. So without going into those details, this is where a large part of the argument that their public image was false kind of comes from.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
They're saying if you can hide something this heinous or try to move past it or what have you, if you can have these allegations out there, does that disarm your Catholic faith element? And if that's disarmed, does that kind of dismantle this entire facade?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Very hot button topic. But moving forward with some more of the criticisms, while the Warrens did not charge the families they assisted, they were able to make money by selling books and their stories for movies. This is something we've talked about quite often when people come to the table to say, I have a story about this or I'm involved with that.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Sometimes money can be the motivator for lies or manipulation or for someone inserting themselves into a situation that otherwise they shouldn't be in. On top of that, many claim that it's possible that the paranormal events that they experienced were exaggerated. to make them more interesting, to make a more compelling book or a more compelling story. And that's not just a claim.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
There are actually quotes that substantiate that. So the Smurl family, who we talked about before, they complained in 1986 about the attention that they received regarding their haunting. It just became so popular to write about and report on. But regardless, they did write a book with the Warrens that same year.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Philosophy professor Paul Kurtz claimed that the Warrens were, quote, "...not objective, independent, or impartial." He offered the Smurl family free psychiatric help and offered to investigate their home himself. Both the Smurls and the Warrens refused his help.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So some people find it weird that they're like complaining about the publication of their haunting, having it go essentially viral, but then also themselves writing a book for publishing and for monetization within the same year.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, but if you're feeling the claim is still a little rocky, let's go down that lane a little further. There's a few more examples. So the Warrens co-wrote a book on the haunting in Connecticut with Ray Garten titled In a Dark Place. In an interview with Horror Bound Magazine, Garten actually said this, quote, I found the accounts of the individual Snedekers did not quite mesh.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
They couldn't keep their stories straight. I went to Ed with this problem, end quote. And so now he's quoting what Ed told him. So then, in response to that, Garton then said, So in essence... However you want to feel about this, they might have taken a few granules of truth from these encounters, from these stories. Right. But the rest seems to be made up.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Every night you got to go outside, climb the ladder and light your lights. Oh, hell no. Hell no. This isn't 1865, but you know, it is a lantern there.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Man, and this, okay, so we are taking this at face value. We got to put a lot of trust into Ray Garten. There's no reason why you wouldn't. But at the same time, just to play devil's advocate, you know, maybe this wasn't a direct quote. Maybe it was, right? Does this completely kill everything? Is it all made up? Or does Garten have something to say about this?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I don't know, but it's not the last example.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, and I think you're right on the money because this next example definitely hits that note. It talks about maybe are they trying to pull someone down a peg or is there envy or jealousy in play? We'll talk about it. So in the case of Amityville, William Webber.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The lawyer for the Lutz and DeFeo families told People magazine in 1974, this is just where we're getting this information, it is a gossip magazine most of the times, but this is where this was reported. It says that the Lutzes, as well as William Weber and the Warrens, all collectively made up some of their paranormal experiences over wine.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
so i guess they're all sitting at a table kind of talking about what they experienced and then started to elevate those experiences now it's possible that what william weber is confessing here in people magazine is gossip right it's possible he made this up as a revenge right because supposedly he was originally intended to be the author of the book around this case but the lutz family went with somebody else
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So, is this a confession because he had nothing to lose? Or is this revenge and he's making it up because he could have been on top with this book, right? He could have made money. It's hard to say, right? You just never know, you know? Uh-huh. But on top of that, the residents of the Amityville house that moved in right after the Lutzes never reported any paranormal activity.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
In fact, that house seemingly, I know the owners kind of want privacy. It's off Google Maps. The address has shifted and things. But no one really since then has experienced anything paranormal in that house. Again, skeptics and believers come to the table. There's a conversation to be had, but it's in direct opposition to the Warrens, right?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Because Lorraine is quoted as saying when she was in this house that this was, quote, as close to hell as she'd ever want to get, end quote.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I feel like it does start to, you know, there's the idea that things are elevated for money. And then to me, the most sinister part, whether they meant to or whether they didn't care, is what's left in their wake.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The potential to have made situations worse, the potential to have made money on the trauma of individuals going through whatever they might have been going through, or the fact that they might have just straight up been fraudulent, you know? Kind of as I hinted at earlier, a lot of their stories around their youth didn't come until later in their career.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
It's really, really hard to pin down a timeline on when certain claims were made. For example, I couldn't figure out when their claim of 10,000 investigations happened, so I couldn't figure out how many investigations per week was happening. When they started talking about their experiences as kids, that kind of came later, from what I could tell, into their paranormal investigations.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And so was this a way to backwards make sense and ground their whole lives in this world? Or was it real, right? And so at what point does this honestly feel more like a story and less like real history? It's blurry.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, both of these two were born in Bridgeport, Connecticut, where they would live most of their lives. This was kind of their base of operations, as we'll find. Now, not much is known about the Warrens' early lives, but there are a few stories that have made it through various sources. We do know that Ed claims to have grown up in a haunted house.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah. It sucks. There is some evidence, and when you look at it, some of it crumbles, some of it falls apart, some of it is interesting, but takes on a level of faith to believe it because things can be manipulated... But really, it's all of this kind of fraudulent stuff that all these claims like from direct sources that really start to shake up that foundation.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And I have one more example that goes in detail here. So the Warrens, as I kind of indicated, were involved very heavily with the Devil Made Me Do It case, i.e. the trial of Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, who, again, argued that he was not guilty of murder due to being possessed by a demon. Johnson's brother-in-law underwent an exorcism with the Warrens, and Johnson asked the demon to take him instead.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
The Warrens then wrote a book on this case, and supposedly shared the profits with the family. One family member, Carl, claimed that the Warrens took advantage of his family and his brother's mental illness. And he and David, the 11-year-old who was possessed at the time, sued Lorraine for libel and emotional distress in 2006 in response to the film being made about their story.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So even though there's some, hey, we'll share in the profits. Maybe this will help you just kind of go along with it. Right. If I'm being cynical, they still came to the table and said, listen, we're older now. We know how we were kind of feeling what we were going through and we feel preyed upon. And now you're making buku bucks. Yeah, that's got to stop.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I mean, you're not wrong, but on top of that, on top of feeling preyed upon and feeling taken advantage, Carl himself dropped out of school due to the ridicule caused by this case. He claimed that the Warrens continued to lecture and sell things based on, as he calls them, the lies about his family. And so now we're having real-world effects. He's getting bullied at school. He has to drop out.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
This is going to make fundamental changes to the trajectory of his life. And in the lawsuit in 2006, I want to quote Carl as we kind of come to a wrap. He said this, quote, End quote.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
When he was a boy, he would see things that he couldn't fully explain. One of his vivid encounters includes his closet door, which would open and close on its own, and when he would look into the darkness, he would see a light form. He called this a ghost globule, about the size of a basketball, and it appeared to have a face in it.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Ooh. Listen, I don't want to dance around the fact that you can make money off lawsuits, right? I don't want to dance around the fact that Carl himself has his own disposition and opinions, and he was also there, boots on the ground, directly involved with this situation. So I'm not trying to dismantle anyone here, but...
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
there's it's he said she said it's it's hearsay until it's like fact of the matter but regardless this is a lot of damning evidence that flies in the face of the legacy of the warrens there has been a lot of complaints in their wake a lot of pointing to fraud a lot of manipulation a lot of doing this for money.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And, and that's why I really wanted to have this episode because we've dabbled with it every time they come up. Now I want to have a place where we point to the story, who they are, how they came to be. Why are they so prevalent? Because it is interesting.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
A lot of their stories truly are interesting, even if made up, but also I wanted a place where we could have a nuanced conversation about all the things that have been levied at them, pointed to the quotes from the families who have experienced them and all of that.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, I mean, if you really want the answer, answer, you're right. It's going to be very hard to fully untangle the mess, especially since they have both since passed. But it leaves them with a very complex legacy. Opinions this way and that, believers, skeptics, cynics. Optimists, all things said. So anyway, it's all out on the table.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And in conclusion, you know, we know the Warrens now mostly for their well-known Conjuring franchise that they have helped inspire at least through their many investigations, right? Countless. Lorraine served as an executive producer for the films before her death in 2019, and Ed passed away in 2006 after years of declining health.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the paranormal. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me here in this case, probably not for the first time on this one, Alfredo Diaz.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Though controversial, the legacy of the Warrens endure as a major influence on modern paranormal pop culture. And now you know a little bit more about these very interesting two individuals, these self-proclaimed paranormal investigators and demonologists and psychics and clairvoyants. But yeah, a lot of history. How did you feel about this, Fredo, having known about them for quite some time?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
This would be otherwise known as an orb, you know, when people go to investigate a house in the dark and they take flash photography and you see these little orbs around. They could be bugs, could be dust, or it could be a specter from another world. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Also in this house, he claims to have seen the family's landlady long after she had died.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, removing myself entirely from the situation, anyone who is of sufficient fame or richness is going to take on some criticisms and some of that is going to feel accurate or right. But my personal opinion on the matter, just having looked at all of this and having talked about many of these cases in depth is that they might've been interested in the occult.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
They might've been interested in these haunted houses. You know, you and I have done this where we dabble. We'll debunk everything we can and everything we can't. We're very honest about. We talked to the task force about. We said, give us your comments. What'd you see? Let's look at it. Let's take another pass.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But maybe I can see this where they went from interest to, hey, there's maybe something here. Maybe we can turn this into stories to sell, books or movies. And so suddenly... they start to develop more knowledge or opinions or abilities. And with a not-so-documented track record, I can see that elevating.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And so I can see an interest turning into a business and losing sight of how this could hurt people, even if indirectly. And so I do feel like they're... Yes, their stories are very fascinating, but I can also see very much so that these are elevated beyond what might have actually happened. It's that kernel, the starting point that I really want to know. What are those experiences?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Because the rest just kind of clouds the air. I want to know what people are actually dealing with, whether it's psychological or paranormal. But that's kind of my take. I don't know. I don't want to be so cynical as to say they're malicious. Right. But things happen. You still preyed on things. Just don't know enough. Just don't know enough. A very interesting conversation.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Man, it's going to have a lot of chatter in the discord with the task force. Oh, yeah. Wait to hear your feedback, your thoughts. Any stone we didn't uncover. You know, there's a lot of sources that are a little flimsy. So we want to just put everything in here. Right. But let us know. Let us know what you hear out there.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Absolutely. And if you want to know how to sign up, head to redwebpod.com. Lots of ways to support us directly over there. Lots of benefits that you'll get by signing up with that. And if you want to support us other ways, there's store.redwebpod.com. You can get this hat I'm wearing right now as well as...
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And he also faced recurring nightmares about a nun, which I do believe inspired some of the nun imagery in the Conjuring universe. But when he would ask his dad about this entity, he would say that it was actually his late aunt. Lorraine, on the other hand, began experiencing her clairvoyant gifts around the age of nine, though she is said to have always seen people's auras.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
When she would look at somebody, she would see kind of like this colorful aura around them. And from that, she could kind of suss out their disposition, their personality, or if there was anything clouding their life. Now, the two met at a movie theater in 1944. Ed was working as an usher and Lorraine's friend set the two up.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, according to the Warren's New England Society of Paranormal Research, or NESPR, this is a society we'll talk a lot about and its founding in a few years from now. But according to NESPR, Lorraine could see what Ed looked like as a young adult. In fact, I want to quote her. She said, quote, I didn't see the slender young man. I physically saw Ed as a grown man, a man that I would marry."
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Soon thereafter, Ed enlisted in the Navy during World War II, and at some point Ed's ship sank after colliding with a tanker, so he was given what's called survivor's leave in 1945. During his 30 days of leave, Ed and Lorraine actually were married on May 22, 1945 in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and then after the war, Ed attended Perry Art School.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So I want to be very clear, and this is what I'm going to do here and there, when sources don't come to play, we couldn't find any information on this particular school. Ah. Yeah. And through NESPR, the Warrens actually claimed that Perry Art School was a subsidiary of Yale. Yet again, we couldn't find any information to back this up. Interesting.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So I want to give some of the story, but I also want to give you some of the facts, robust, built on by research. Okay.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yeah. And we'll see that here too, where a lot of these stories are open to interpretation. You know, I want to talk about this from the believer and skeptics point of view, but there is room in these stories to kind of have retroactively changed things. Okay.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You know, when we talk about their youth, when we talk about his experiences or her experiences with their abilities as children, there is some open-ended, hey, was this made up after the fact? But we'll get there. So either way, he did talk about going to Perry Art School. And after two years, he is said to have dropped out.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Paranormal investigators, demonologists, frauds. They've been called it all. Their names became synonymous with the most haunting stories of the last century. Stories that inspired a sprawling film franchise. But who were they really? How did they rise to fame? And why do so many still question their legacy? Today, we explore the lives and infamy of Ed and Lorraine Warren. This is Red Web.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And the couple then traveled around New England attempting to sell these paintings. So either way, he was painting, and there were some paintings to be had, and they were selling them. And for our international listeners, New England encompasses quite a few states in the United States. It's up in the northeast of New York, but that includes Connecticut, their home state.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You've got Maine, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Massachusetts. It's a beautiful corner of the country. Now, the couple had their first and only child named Judy in 1951. Now, I do want to say again, so many different sources have her birth year different. Depending on where you look, I've seen 1946, 1950, and 1951. All for a person, by the way, who is alive and has an actual birth date.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
So, I just want to put some of that out there.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Yes, exactly.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Leave it to somebody else who does know. Right, right. You don't have to be the one that knows everything. You know, it's like us. We try to report on everything. We try to collate all the information. And we're going to be very honest when things get a little wiry, a little mixed up.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But again, I say this honestly, not to be a wet blank about this whole subject, but to give you a grounded look at kind of how some of these elements might be a little shaky from the get-go. So Judy, born here in 1951, lived primarily with her grandparents. And I found that to be interesting, but I want to quote her via the nerd culture news outlet Den of Geeks. She said, quote, End quote.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And then in response to why she mostly lived at her grandparents rather than at her parents, yes, they were traveling as one reason, but the other reason was, quote, I was terrified there, in their house. I just didn't sleep there. So while traveling and selling Ed's paintings, the Warrens would stop between their destinations at places that were said to be haunted.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
These paranormal locations inspired Ed's work and eventually led to their career as full-on, self-proclaimed paranormal investigators.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Sure. I mean, it's so interesting because it feels like two completely different worlds. So I was really curious what kind of sparked their interest. Why on the road to selling paintings did they stop and go, oh, that is a haunted place. Let's go check it out. Maybe it just started as a really interesting story. True. They wanted to see for themselves.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
That's true. I mean, you're totally right. I'm kind of playing my hand a little bit. But like, if they do have history in this space, it would make sense for them to have a natural proclivity for haunted houses and the paranormal. But on the other hand, chicken or the egg, right? Yeah. A little tease of things to come.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And looking into it further, how do they figure out these houses? Where do they figure out these locations? It sounds like it was mostly local word of mouth. Stories would be told in town. They would hear about these things. Maybe they would ask about them. And so, hey, if they're heading to Portsmouth or what have you, then maybe they'll stop at a house on the way.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Now, what's interesting, and this feels like a cursed version of American Pickers, Ed would actually sketch the supposedly haunted houses. He would then knock on the door, talk to the homeowners, show the sketch as a way to kind of befriend them, enter the home, maybe talk about their experiences with the paranormal, and then they would begin their investigation. Okay.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
okay yeah what a weird way to get in it's a very strange way there's a painting where you know we're talking 1940s 1950s there's some trust in play here yeah there's trust in play there's door-to-door sales people just like like hitchhiking you know back then sure hitchhiking you know and that's like don't ever pick up a hitchhiker
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
It's very interesting. You know, again, it's like American pickers. You know, these guys roll up and go, hey, I like your trash. You selling any of it? And then that's how they get their antiques. But man, all it would take for me and maybe I wouldn't even start. Listen, I got a ghost. I don't need you in here. Kind of riling it up.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
But like maybe, you know, there's a situation where somebody comes in, they become the poltergeist killer. You know, they go, I heard you had a ghost. And then suddenly they start slashing. Terrible.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Then no one's letting anyone in anywhere. But suffice to say, that's kind of how he got to know these homeowners and got to enter the home, begin the investigation. And then in 1952, the Warrens actually officially founded NESPR. Again, the New England Society of Paranormal Research.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
And during that same year, they created the infamous Occult Museum that is seen in all of those movies, the Conjuring Universe movies. And this was in the basement of their house in Moreau, Connecticut. So there are a plethora of images online about this place, many of them wide shots. But here is one example image of them and some of the things that they housed in that museum.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
Just straight up no?
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
You go under over a million dollars. You play in those bongos. Or those drums? For a million dollars? Yeah, under over. What are we thinking? I think I strike the bongo. I think, yeah. And now that we have a threshold, Christian, producer, let's lower that until we find the threshold. We'll get them in there. We'll make it happen. We'll get them doing something wild for a hundred bucks.
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Ed & Lorraine Warren | The True Story of These Famous Paranormal Investigators
I imagine a museum of the future might have, you know, the Donkey Kong, you know, GameCube bongos might have a DDR pad, you know, might have some sort of like Xbox controller might. What are the millennial occult items in 100 years from now? You know, gotta be like an iPhone, a computer. OK, yeah. And then maybe a Banksy image. Yeah. Something like that.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es gibt Verletzungen, die möglich sein könnten, wenn es eine höhere Profilentität wäre. Andererseits denke ich, dass deine Anliegen näher an die Situation der Zement-Schuhe sind, die wir schon in Fällen gesehen haben. Oder die Mafia. Put some weights on an individual and off they go. So, coming back to Dr. Lawrence.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
After some time, he determined that the body belonged to a Caucasian male with dark brown hair between the ages of 23 and 46. It is quite the range, but there's a lot of decay. Sie waren ungefähr 5'2-5'4, also nicht ganz so groß, also wäre es wahrscheinlich ein mehr unterschiedlicher Individuum. Weißt du, zwischen 160 und 166 Zentimetern, wenn du möchtest.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nun, um mehr spezifisch zu sein mit den Plastikpacken, es scheint, dass zwei davon verwendet wurden, um den Kopf zu öffnen. Noch einmal, die Fragen bleiben da. Ich bin sehr gespannt, ob du irgendwelche Gedanken hast, als wir weitergehen, Fredo.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es scheint auch so zu sein, dass dieser John Doe von Blunt Force Trauma am Kopf gestorben ist, sodass er diese Schüsse wahrscheinlich vor dem Einsteigen in das Wasser bekommen hat, obwohl es unbekannt ist, ob er, um deine Frage zu stellen, tot war, als er zu dem Bildschirm eingestiegen war. Besonders mit diesem Verlust. Man kann nicht wirklich sagen, ob es Wasser in den Lungen gab.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nun, wahrscheinlich, weil, auch wenn er vor dem Einsteigen eingestiegen war, gab es, wie ich gesagt habe, viel Verlust.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Weil ich glaube, dass wir dieses Jahr, wie jedes andere Geheimnis, es in Australien passiert fühlt. Also hier ist ein, wir geben ein paar raus für dich, Aussies. Hier ist ein Schuhi für dich. Oh Gott. Ein weiterer echter Kram in der Nähe.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Oh Mann, du zeigst eine Bildung, die ich nicht voll sehen will, aber ich denke, du bist an etwas dran.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, ich denke auch an ein paar Optionen hier, als wir uns auf diesen wunderschönen Beat beherrschen. Sagen wir, es gibt einen Sack auf dem Kopf. Sie haben ihn auf den Kopf geschlagen. Und was, wenn das einen Splitt in den Sack schaffte oder was auch immer? Und wiederum, zu Ihrem Punkt, sie wollen es nicht sehen. Sie wollen keine Blutstraße für den Sinn der Forensik erschaffen. Sie wollen nicht.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Oh ja, das auch. Ja, lasst diese Person ihre Identität von jemandem sehen, aber auch noch mehr morbid, was, wenn sie nur versuchen, eine rudimentäre, albeit eine sehr temporäre Sehnsucht zu schaffen, richtig?
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Du weißt, wenn du versuchst, in einem Plastikpack zu atmen, was ziemlich gefährlich ist, bitte nicht jemals das tun, aber wenn sie versuchen, so zu sagen, jemanden zu zerstören und sie das tun und dann sie in den Wasser werfen, macht die Erfahrung noch schlimmer? Das ist alles, was ich sagen wollte. Weißt du, was ich meine?
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ist das Ziel hier wirklich, diese Person in einem schrecklichen Weg zu verurteilen? Also, sie fliegen nach unten, versuchen, sich in dieser Tasche zu atmen, und es ist ein bisschen flüssig, also sind sie ein bisschen länger wach, als sie sollten sein. Ich weiß nicht. Oh, schwer. Ja, alles ist ziemlich schrecklich.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, es ist seltsam zu erforschen, aber es bildet auch eine bessere Bildung darauf, wer von etwas so möglich ist. Wer würde es wollen? Was war ihr Motiv, so weit zu gehen? Aber am Ende wurde gefunden, was es schwierig machte, sie zu identifizieren. Es gibt also ein bisschen Verlust. Der Korpswax hilft, einige Dinge wie die Gesichter zu retten. Das Wasser hat seine Fingerprinten entfernt.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Sein Gesicht hat angefangen, einige zu entdecken. Und die DNA-Testung war nicht so weit vorhanden, wie es jetzt ist. Wir befinden uns also an der Runde des Jahrhunderts, in der es immer mehr ansteckend wird. Es wird immer mehr Teil dieser Fälle sein, aber es wird nicht wirklich eine Teil dieser Fälle sein, für eine gewisse Zeit.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Die Zeit, die unter Wasser gedauert wurde, und die normale Decomposition machten es schwierig, diese DNA-Sammlung zu bekommen. Dr. Chris Griffiths hat die Zähne des Bodies untersucht und er fand, dass es keine Füllungen gab, sodass die Dental-Rekorde etwas komplizierter sein würden. Sie wären nicht so einzigartig. Er hat jedoch bemerkt, dass die Gesichter eine ungewöhnliche Bohnenstruktur hatten.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Diese Person hätte also eine missformierte Gesichter oder zumindest einen sehr bestimmten Ausblick gehabt. Das hilft also ein wenig, den Gap zu schließen. But either way, the man could not be matched with anybody from any existing missing reports at the time, and so he was given the name Unknown Human Remains E48293, but most news outlets called him the Rackman.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Yeah, it just paints that very vivid, unfortunate picture, right? And so at this point, we have an unknown human who's essentially reduced to a nickname and a number. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Shady Rays. Get ready for the season ahead with quality shades built to last. Our friends at Shady Rays have you covered with premium polarized lenses and they won't break the bank.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Every pair is backed by lost or broken replacements. If you don't love your shades, exchange for a new pair or return worry-free within 30 days. Task Force, you heard me say it before and I'm going to say it again. I wear my shady rays every single time I go outside. I'm obsessed with polarized lenses, especially in this very sunny state of Texas as the spring rolls around.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
I gotta get my daily walk in. Sometimes I'm going running and they have a style to fit every style I've got going on on my lower half. You know, if I've got something swell and clean and I want that men in black look, they've got it. If I want something sleek and athletic, they also have it. I have a style for every occasion and I'm just a big fan of shady rays, truly.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So if you're growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to go selling wherever your customers are scrolling and strolling on the web in your store or on their feed and everywhere in between. You want to make sure your product is accessible. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Yeah, I saw a silver fish in my closet the other day and I almost ran a fire drill. So... Alles in Australien fühlt sich so an, als würde es dich in irgendeinem Fall holen. Es ist toxisch, feuchtig oder es stürzt dich einfach. Aber ja, wir sind im Outback, im Grunde nicht wirklich im Outback, aber wir sind in Australien. Und dieser Fall ist super, super interessant.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So beginnt die Polizei mit einem 100.000 Dollar Rewards für alle Informationen, die nicht zu den Befugnissen führen, weil sie keine haben, sondern zu der Identifikation von Rachman selbst führen. Und noch nie kam jemand vorwärts. So Rackman had no personal belongings on his body at the time besides a pack of Benson & Hedges cigarettes and a pink lighter in his pocket.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
He was wearing an Everything Australia branded polo and a No Sweat branded track pant. Both of them size medium. Now with this information becoming public, you have another step in this investigation where people become... Sie wollen Hilfe und Unterstützung mit allen Informationen, die sie geben können, um diesen Fall zu beenden.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und alles Australien selbst, die Marke, kam vor und sagte den Polizisten, dass das spezielle Schirttag-Design, das auf dem Schirm erhielt wurde, zwischen 1982 und 1987 verwendet wurde. Es ist schon eine Weile her, aber das erlaubt ihnen zumindest zu beginnen, vielleicht Rezepte zu suchen oder, wenn es helfen kann, wieder einmal eine deutlichere Bildung darzustellen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber sie hatten Läden überall im Land, aber primär in den Staaten von New South Wales und Queensland. Also beginnen wir, unsere Suche zu öffnen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Das Rubben der Tempels, das Schauen auf das Bild, das Schrauben über, wie du gesagt hast, mehrere Stunden Material, um alles zu finden. An der Universität Sydney hat Prof. Donald Anderson tatsächlich die Wälder, die auf dem Schirm geformt wurden, benutzt, um zu beurteilen, dass es in der Tat für weniger als ein Jahr untergebracht wurde.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es ist nicht unbedingt möglich, etwas mehr spezifischer zu bekommen als das, aber was hilfreich ist, ist, dass es Dr. Lawrences früheren Bewertungen des sechs- bis zwölfmonatigen Zeitraums korroberiert. Auch an der Universität Sydney hat ein Student namens Mea Suttisno eine Reconstruktion der Gesichter geschaffen, die zu künstlerischen Interpretationen dazu führte, wie die Gefühle aussehen könnten.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich bin ein großer Fan von dem. Das ist so cool, wenn, ob es um echten Kram und Forensik geht oder ob es um ancienten Ägypten und Mammut und solche Dinge geht, wenn Menschen, die all diese unglaublichen Gehirnwissen haben und sie sind buffe Wissenschaftler, sie können sich in ihre Blutstrukturen scannen und die volle, fast lebendige Ähnlichkeit auswählen können.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und du wirst herausfinden, wir kennen den Individuen, der gefunden wurde. Wir werden sehen, wie wir von den 90ern bis zum Ende des Jahrhunderts wechseln und DNA kommt, um eventuell zu spielen. So there are some modern revelations. But really, man, the questions behind this are really fascinating. And I think we're going to get a good idea of the picture at play.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und wir haben Fotos davon, wie das aussehen könnte. Es gibt eine Skulptur in der ersten Bildung und dann in der zweiten Bildung sind es mehr zweidimensionale, künstliche Renderinge mit verschiedenen Haarstylen und etwas unterschiedlicher Haut, um einen Bereich zu geben, wie diese Person aussehen könnte, wenn sie lebend ist. Lass mich mal schauen. Oh, wow. Nimm ein bisschen Gander.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Das ist wild. Oh. Wegen dessen möchte ich, dass du diese Bilder in deinem Kopf behältst, weil diese Person wiederum eine Ähnlichkeit und ein paar Interpretationen erzeugt, um potenziell herauszufinden, wer das ist, oder zumindest den Populisten herauszufinden und zu sagen, weißt du jemanden wie diesen, der vermutlich missbraucht ist, etc. ?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So of course now with relatively limited information to go off of, investigators had a handful of missing persons who might have been Rackman. First up we have Joe Biviano, a missing drug dealer who resembled a physical description, but more modern studies have shown that his family DNA does not match that of this John Doe.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Danach haben wir einen Mann namens Peter Mietries, einen verlassenen Geschäftsführer, der zu Beginn bezeichnet wurde, aber dann schnell beurteilt wurde, weil er bekannt war, dass er viel höher ist als dieser Körper selbst. Also nicht 5'2 zu 5'4, wir beurteilen ihn.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Drittens haben wir Christopher Dale Flannery, einen Hitmann, der als Mr. Rent-A-Kill genannt wird, aber seine Dental-Rekorde verglichen mit diesen Körpern nicht. Der vierte Individuum, über den wir sprechen, ist Max Tanchewski, ein Missing Gambler, aber sein DNA hat sich nicht gekämpft.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Wir kommen zurück zu diesem Individuum in nur einem Sekunden, weil du, ich meine, eine Flagge wirst du erheben, richtig? Und wir werden darüber sprechen, aber ich werde dein Instinkt dazu sprechen. Also war es nicht bis August 2018, Oh wow. Oh, da ist er. Du kannst sehen, wo sie etwas akkurat waren. Du kannst sehen, wo sie etwas weg waren, wegen der Interpretationen, richtig?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
But there's going to be one big hanging question that creates so much, like just a lot of morbid curiosity around this case. Of course, being the rack itself that he got this nickname for the rack man. Aber bevor wir reinführen, wie immer, liebe ich es, die Shoutouts an die Task Force-Mitglieder zu geben, die uns direkt unterstützen, auf redwebpod.com.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Man, ich denke, was mir wirklich stand, ist, dass der Haar wahrscheinlich am stärksten von im Wasser zu sein und in einer Tasche zu sein und zu entdecken und zu fallen oder was auch immer. Aber ich denke, und es ist wirklich interessant, deine Perspektive zu hören, weil du es jetzt für die erste Zeit siehst.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich fühle mich, als ich es gesehen habe und ich die baldere Iteration dieser Interpretation gesehen habe, und dann sah ich seine Gesichter. Die Augen und die Nase haben mir so viel aufgefallen. Du weißt, wir sehen seine Zähne in dieser Bildung nicht, also werden wir nicht die einzigen Dentalpatternen sehen, die er auf seinen vorderen Zähnen hat, um die Punkte zu verbinden.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich erinnere mich, als ich das erste Mal gesehen habe, dachte ich mir, oh mein Gott, es sieht so ähnlich aus, aber ehrlich gesagt, jetzt, dass ich dich hier höre, identifiziere ich es. Es gibt einige große Unterschiede, weißt du? Ja. Aber ich würde sagen, sie sind in den Soft-Tissuen, weißt du, die Nase zu voll, die Nase-Kartoffel zu etwas anders.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und ich frage mich, wie viel davon in der Verlängerung ist, weil... So beeindruckend es ist, einen Gesicht aus der Bohnenstruktur zu bauen, ohne eine wirklich akkurate Muskulatur oder Gesichtsschmerzen und Knochen und all das, ist es, glaube ich, ziemlich schwierig.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es erinnert mich an einen Polizisten-Sketcher. Wenn du jemanden gesehen hast und du versuchst ihn zu beschreiben und dann schreibst du das. Es kommt näher an, es gibt dir eine Idee, aber es ist nicht immer vollständig akkurat, richtig? Richtig. Aber was mir stand, und ich weiß nicht, ob du das bemerkt hast, aber Max Tanchewski wurde zuerst ausgerufen, weil sein DNA damals nicht zutrifft.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und es war nicht für 24 Jahre, dass sie die Punkte tatsächlich verbunden haben und gesagt haben, nein, es ist das gleiche DNA. Ich habe mit Jillian darüber gesprochen, und ich war interessiert, was das für einen Grund war. Es scheint, weil wir schon lange im Wasser waren, hat sich das Verlust eingestiegen, und es hat es schwer gemacht, eine deutliche DNA-Analysen zu erzeugen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und wir sind auch noch in den frühen Rücken dieser hochwertigen, sehr deutlichen DNA-Analysen. Es gibt also einige Gründe, weshalb es nicht vollständig eingestiegen ist, und es fühlt sich fast so an, als wäre es ein falsches Negativ.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, absolut. Tanchewski war ein 37-jähriger kaukasischer Mann und ein bekannter Gämbler aus Neutown, einem Städte in Sydney. Bis jetzt bin ich sehr beeindruckt mit einigen der Bestimmungen und einigen der Einhaltung, anstatt nur zu sagen, ja, es ist ein kaukasischer Mann, das ist alles, was wir haben. Sie begannen ziemlich beeindruckend zu steigern, nach dem Verlangen anderer Beweise.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Wir haben die buffen Geister, die muskularen, vaskulären Zähne an diesen Gehirnen, Sir Kerbs und Kai Yeti, um ein paar zu nennen. Und natürlich diejenigen, die Fredo immer versucht hat, neue Machinations zu haben, um zu melzen, sind unsere Squonk-Tier-Mitglieder, Brett Omura G. und Mitch W., um ein paar von ihnen zu nennen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So it seems that he left Newtown to gamble at the Gold Coast near Brisbane, over 500 miles north of Sydney. With him it is said that he had $1,800 in cash and this would have been back in January of 1993 when he suddenly disappeared. Again, as you know, it wouldn't be for another 20 months before a fisherman would pull him up out of the body of water onto the Lady Marian
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und bezüglich seines sogenannten Januar Gambling Spree, den ich gesehen habe, hat sein Partner damals gesagt, dass diese Reise für ihn nicht aus Charakter gekommen sei, noch war die Anzahl der Geld, die er auf seine Person hielt, eine ungewöhnliche Anzahl. Es war wahrscheinlich für Gambling geplant. Er kam normalerweise nach Hause in ein paar Tagen, laut dem Buch Unsolved Australia.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und es gibt sehr wenig öffentlich verfügbare Informationen über Tanchewski außerhalb dessen. Selbst mit seiner Identität ist es immer noch unklar, warum Tanchewski im Wasser tot war und sich zu einer Metall-Framen-Kontraption befand, die für ihn gebaut war. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Factor arrives fresh and fully prepared, perfect for any active, busy lifestyle.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
I want to get that protein goodness in me, but I also want to make sure that I'm still eating right, still getting my vegetables and things. And that's where Factor makes it all super easy. You don't have to worry about dirtying up a bunch of pots and pans. You just pop it in the microwave and it's tasty every single time. So you know that you're eating right and it's super, super easy.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Eat smart with Factor. Get started at factormeals.com slash factorpodcast and use code FactorPodcast to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. Again, that's code FactorPodcast at factormeals.com slash FactorPodcast to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Vielen Dank für's Zuschauen. It's tough to know where to get started.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
That's betterhelp.com slash redweb. Mit all dem gibt es viele Theorien zu erforschen, aber ich bin sehr interessiert, wie wir in diese Theorien einsteigen. Wenn du irgendwelche Wunschinstinkte hast, irgendwelche Fragen, die für dich übrig bleiben, was dir aussteht.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich denke definitiv, dass es mit Gambling zu tun hat. Ich denke auch, dass es so ist. Ich meine, das Welt ist, ich meine, Geld macht viel zu vielen Leuten. Und das ist ein hochwertiges, viel Geld fließend in und aus, Art von Ding. Und wie sie sagen, der Haus gewinnt immer. Und so kannst du sehen, wie, weißt du, sagen wir mal, einer war mit Karten zu zählen oder einer mit einem großen...
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
oder eine Lohnschark-Situation geht nach Süden. Du weißt, es gibt viele Elemente darin, die wir definitiv erforschen werden. Aber es gibt auch einige wirklich interessante andere Theorien, über die ich mich interessieren würde. Aber bevor wir das machen, hatte ich eine letzte Überraschung, die Partner war.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
I was really curious, like, I guess, you know, if I were to say to anybody as a piece of advice, you know, if anyone came to me and said, having done 224 plus episodes of true crime and mysteries and all this unsolved, what's one thing you wouldn't do?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
And I would say, don't make it a habit to disappear for days at a time, because this is not the first time that someone disappeared on another sort of track. oder eine Art Spree. Und dann passiert es so, dass er mit einer Verlängerung koordiniert. Denn sein Partner hat ihn nie eingepostet. Er hat ihn nie als missgenommen, oder zumindest nicht für ganz viel Zeit.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Listen, I figured it was a complacency thing, you know. We continue to thank them for their amazing support, because they are tremendous. And then, you know, Fredo ends up using me as some sort of nice bait. And then I lull them into the false sense of security with hospitality and gratefulness. And then you go, I looked at you, bam, puddle.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und das ist, weil sie sagten, naja, das ist einfach so, was er gemacht hat. Und ich dachte, er würde endlich wieder da sein. Und je mehr Zeit übergeht, desto weiter wächst das Beweis.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Still moving. Sure. I mean, your phone's pinging towers, it's got GPS, kind of almost always happening, even if your phone's off. But even, heck, if you walk down any American neighborhood street, you're likely gonna be clocked by a thousand doorbell cameras, you know? Yeah, that's true.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es gibt so viel Beobachtung, um es besser oder schlechter zu machen. Es gibt keine Art und Weise, dass man nicht von einer Kamera geklopft wird. Besonders wenn man in einer Stadt lebt. Okay, also lasst uns über einige dieser Theorien sprechen. Zuerst ist die Idee eines satanischen Kultes. Eines der populärsten Go-To's, wenn man nicht weiß, wer zu verurteilen ist, richtig?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So due to the gruesome crucifixion style nature of tanshevsky's discovery there was public concern that he was murdered as part of some sort of satanic ritual right this is kind of a swell from the populace and Während dieser Zeit, vor allem in den 80ern, gab es eine erhöhte Angst um satanische Rituale und die Okkulten.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich weiß, D&D wurde zum Beispiel darin eingeschleppt, aber es wurde sozusagen der Omniboggey-Mann. Es war eines der wichtigsten Dinge, die man anzeigen würde. Um diese Theorie nicht zu verwandeln, stelle ich die Zeit ein bisschen kontextualisierter.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Jetzt, obwohl es seltsam wäre, jemanden in dieser Art und Weise zu töten, gibt es keine anderen Beweise, um zu bestätigen, dass es ein satanischer Kult wäre. Es gibt keine anderen Iconographien, keine Markierungen, keine Items oder so etwas, das einen satanischen Ritual anzeigen würde. Und weiter, viele satanische Rituale folgen Pattern, sie sind typisch nicht Ein-Ups.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So the fact that this specific act hadn't happened before, hadn't happened since then, at least to our knowledge, you know, maybe they weren't discovered, right? Despite the fact that this seemed to have worked, right? Whoever did this is still at large, never was found. It does indicate that it's unlikely to be a type of ritual, so to speak.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
However, police did take this theory seriously and investigated cults with a history of violent acts for religious purposes. Berichte von sogenannten satanischen Aktivitäten waren nicht ungewöhnlich in den 90ern in Australien, besonders in New South Wales. Also ist es nicht aus dem Raum der Möglichkeit. Es ist, weißt du, es ist sehr viel eine Theorie und das ist das.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber mit dem gesagt, gehen wir in die zweite, weil wir anfangen, ein bisschen näher zu kommen, wo dein Geist, wo dein Geist ist, Fredo.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, und wir wissen nicht, dass wir ein Kult sind. Wir sind kein Kult. Nein, wir sind kein Kult. Wir sind kein Kult, wir tragen unsere Kleidung nicht so wie alle anderen. Wir sammeln uns nicht zusammen und tragen selben Kleidung. Nein. Und wir hören Hymnen, die wir auf dem Spot machen, sodass es völlig unvergleichbar ist. Wir müssen einen geheimen, einzigartigen Kupfen haben oder so.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Wir machen keine solche Sachen. Nein, nein, nein, wir würden das nie machen. Aber mit dem... Die zweite Theorie handelt sich um Gangland. Zuerst haben die Polizisten auch theorisiert, dass der Tod eine sogenannte Gangland-Tötung sein könnte. Diese Theorie wurde also nur mit der Erweiterung von Tanchewskis Identität gestärkt.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Als ein Fischboot in sein Netz fiel, erwarteten sie den normalen Fisch, bis sie etwas viel schwerer holten. In den Linien war ein Körper, mit einem seltsamen Metallframen. Seit Jahrhunderten wusste niemand seinen Namen, und er wurde nur mit einem grünen Nachnamen bekannt. Heute entdecken wir das Geheimnis des Rackmanns. Das ist Red Web.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Gangland-Tötung ist etwas, das ich noch nie gehört habe, aber es ist ein rätseliger Begriff für Mörder, die mit organisiertem Verbrechen verbunden sind.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich will das sagen, weil das die Art und Weise ist, wie sie es bezeichnet haben, die Art und Weise, wie sie es bezeichnet haben, aber ich will das nicht mit einem echten Fall verbinden, der zwischen Januar 1998 und August 2010 stattfand, der Melbourne-Gangland-Tötung. Das war ein zweiter Thema, also ist es nicht Teil davon.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Now, Detective Chief Inspector John Lehman told news.com.au that this was an unusual way of disposing of a body and that, quote, a normal person would not meet their demise like this, so we think that the victim was involved with some kind of criminal activity, end quote. Freddo, du bist jetzt Chef-Inspektor. Du bist Chef-Inspektor Gut. Wir geben dir ein neues Badge. Wir erheben dich auf dem 58.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Flur der Taskforce. Da gehen wir. Er ist ein Psycho, Mann.
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The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
A collection of jars in his closet. Oh yeah. I remember that one. I got one with your name on it. I'll get you. Votet auf eure Lieblingsmysterien, lasst uns sehen, wer dieses Bracket gewinnt. Und dann, natürlich, werden wir einige Blogs, vielleicht auch einige Vlogs runtern, um täglich zu vermitteln, was eure Kommentare sind, was eure Tipps sind und all das.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Fühl dich frei, um sie zu sehen. Wenn du sie siehst, nein, du hast sie nicht gesehen, weil sie jetzt nackt sind und nur ein Pudel sind. Aber ich meine, das ist, ich meine, vielleicht ist es eine offensichtliche Schlussfolgerung, richtig? Weil es so eine interessante Weise ist, darüber zu gehen. Aber ich liebe, dass du darauf eingegangen bist, was ich wollte, um auf diesen Moment zu pausieren.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Weil, wiederum, du bist psychisch. Ich fühle mich, du siehst die Zukunft drei Minuten nach dem Zeitpunkt und es ist beeindruckend.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es ist wie bei den Mystery-Mens. Du hast eine Macht und es ist seltsam, aber es funktioniert.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Right, like a squonk. But yeah, I mean, I think this makes a whole lot of sense. Now, of course, as you also pointed out, Fredo, it's possible with Tanchewski's history as a gambler, he may have owed somebody money or gotten involved in the wrong crowd. Now, this is a tale as old as time. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that owe the wrong people money, right?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
There's a whole show that's built on that foundation, right? Squid Game is the modern iteration of that tale. Oh, yeah, yeah. High Interest. Ja, na ja, Lebensinteresse, es scheint. Das ist ein Preis zu hoch, um zu bezahlen, nicht wahr?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nun, manche haben vorgestellt, dass er mit diesen 1.800 Dollar, ja, er hätte vielleicht rausgegangen, um zu verkaufen oder was auch immer, aber vielleicht war es, um seine Steuern zu bezahlen. Was man argumentieren würde, wäre eine ziemlich ungewöhnliche Anzahl, eine ziemlich kleine Anzahl, um jemanden zu töten. Vielleicht war das alles, was sie damals hatten.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und so sagten sie, hey, das ist alles, was ich geben kann. Gib mir ein bisschen mehr Zeit, so eine Sache. Wir könnten über das über Theorien theorisieren. Aber andere haben vorgelegt, dass Tamschewskys Tod eine Botschaft oder eine Art Warnung senden soll. Ich würde sagen, dass das ein bisschen seltsam wäre.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Richtig. Ist das deine Anrufkarte? Ich weiß nicht, ob Leute wissen, dass das deine Anrufkarte ist. Besonders, da er seit 20 Jahren nicht identifiziert wurde.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, 24 Jahre bevor er sich identifiziert hat, ist es eine seltsame Art, zu sagen, ah, sieh, das war meine, jetzt hast du meine Botschaft. Verstehe. Verstehe. Verstehe. V.a. mit vielen Leuten, die mit dem Rack geholfen haben. Es stimmt, dass ein Gruppenteil oder ein organisiertes Verbrechen dabei war. Das Einzige, was wir von ihm wissen, ist Gambling.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es ist eine offensichtliche Richtung, darüber nachzudenken. Aber es gibt keine Beweise, dass er sich mit oder mit anderen Gangs oder kriminellen Aktivitäten verbunden hat. Und wir wissen nicht mehr viel mehr über seinen Handel. Vielleicht war es nur eine periodische, rekreationelle Sache, die er gemacht hat. Wir wissen nicht, wie weit es gegangen ist. Und so ist es, wiederum, nur eine Theorie.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es ist schwer, wirklich mehr darüber nachzudenken. Aber das ist, wo die dritte Theorie zu spielen kommt. Die Idee einer persönlichen Wendette. Nun, andere haben vorgelegt, dass dieses höchst einzigartige, offensichtlich arbeitsintensive und intrikate Methoden des Entspannens des Körpers eine persönliche Verbindung mit dem Täter zeigen. The frame was custom made for Tanchewski.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
His height, you know, like the cross beams were at his elbows, waist, neck and knees. So it's almost like it was built to his unique measurements, I guess. Yeah, I could see that, yeah. And now obviously it would take some level of welding skill to put it together. We don't know much about his social circle or who would know how to do this.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
But it's possible that Tanchewski made someone extremely angry face. extrem überrascht, dass wiederum nur irgendein unbekanntes Vendetta im Spiel war, um so weit zu gehen, um etwas so schrecklich zu machen. Richtig.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nehmt keine Aufmerksamkeit zu diesem großen, schweren Trashbag, den wir haben. Ja. Ups, es ist geschliffen. Ansonsten gehen wir schnell zurück aufs Meer. Ja, ich weiß nicht, meine Meinung ist so weit zwischen dieser Wendette oder dieser Idee von Lone Shark, dieser organisierten Kriminalität.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Oder ehrlich gesagt, vielleicht hast du einfach die falsche Gruppe verfolgt und dich in etwas vermischt, was nichts mit Gambling zu tun hat. Aber ich verabschiede mich. Die Polizei glaubt also, dass er in der Tat vor dem Einstieg ins Wasser getötet worden ist. Wir haben über das Blutdrucktrauma im Kopf gesprochen, über die unbekannte Antwort darauf, ob er vor oder nach dem Einstieg tot war.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Laut unschaffender Australien, hat NSW-Polizei-Inspektor John Lehmann gefragt, warum er an dieser Schale eingestiegen war. Warum war er nicht einfach mit Konkret aufgewacht und im Wasser verpackt? War das ein Art Tötungsrack? Mit der Schale, die extrem schwer ist, ist es sehr wahrscheinlich, dass es mehr als eine Person benötigt hat, wie ich vorhin bemerkt habe.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und wiederum, das bezieht sich auf eine Gruppe. Tanchewski, es scheint, hat Geld an ein paar Menschen gekostet, obwohl die Anzahl unbekannt ist. Und einer der Individuen in diesen Gruppen könnte ein Welder gewesen sein und vielleicht mit dieser seltsamen Kontraption, um ihn zu zerstören, gekommen. But otherwise, that's where the theories end. You know, we know now who this person was.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
The unfortunate reality is that we may and likely never will know what happened, what went down and why he was submerged in such a unique and gruesome way.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, und er verschwindet auch für 20 Monate, richtig? Er wurde von seinem Partner bekannt, dass er für ein paar Tage verschwindet und dann wieder nach Hause kommt. Aber viel kann in 20 Monaten passieren. Und erinnere dich, zwei verschiedene Gerichte sagen, dass er die meiste Zeit zwölf Monate verbleibte. Jesus.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So that gives us anywhere from 8 months up to 14 months, give or take, that he's doing something, that he might be captured, that he might be, I don't know, tortured? Like, what's happening in those months? And that, I think, is just as terrifying as the unknown as to how he got here. Yeah, that's wild.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Egal wie furchtbar, wie wir es immer fühlen, wenn wir von ungeschlossenen Fällen wegkommen, jeder, der das gemacht hat, ist immer noch da. Nicht, dass sie die Menschen regelmäßig zu diesen metallischen Dingen strecken, aber sie können es.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Du bist nur ein junger kleiner Kumpel, in den 90ern, Anfang der 2000er. Der Welt war pur, ich spielte mit meinen Tinkertoys, dann spielte ich mit meinen Videospielen. Simpler. Simpler ohne zu wissen. Aber wie du weißt, Fred, es gibt einfach etwas, was die dunkle Seite, die unbekannte Seite, der Unterkopf der Menschheit darstellt. Oh, ja.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und als wir reinigen, noch ein letzter Shoutout zu Razorcrest für das Submittieren dieses Videos. Task Force Member on Patreon, there is a form where you can submit topics for Movie Club or the Mysteries. And we love to see what you guys want to hear from us. But with that, Fredo, let's dive in. I'm going to take you down under and all the way back to August 11th, 1994.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und damit schließen wir das Kapitel auf yet another unsolved case. This is the Rackman, also known as the Crucifixion of Max Tanchewski. Task Force, let us know what your theories are. We always love to see your theories in our Discord channel, available exclusively to our Task Force members at redwebpod.com. Of course, we also have bonus material coming up. Last month we did a cryptid dating game.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Right now we have March Mystery Madness. We got the pilot episode of... This podcast right here, of course, ad-free as well. And then, Fredo, you've got Movie Club kicking around.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
A fisherman named Mark Peterson and his crew were out on the Hawkesbury River. The river is just north of Sydney, Australia and reaches out towards the Pacific Ocean.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nach ihren späteren Berichten, am Abendessen, haben die Fischereien eine Nette vom Lady Marian ausgeliefert, das ist das Name des Bootes, auf dem sie waren, und schließlich fühlten sie einen schweren Tug, so stark im Grunde, dass es fast wie ein Anker das Boot zur Seite leuchtete.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nun, um euch eine mehr spezifische Idee zu geben, wo wir sind, das ist ein langer Berg, wir sind fast direkt nach Norden von Sydney an diesem Punkt, etwa 19 Meilen, vielleicht 30 Kilometer, an einem Punkt namens Coen, in Südwelschland.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Hier öffnet sich der Meeresschein in den Pazifik, also wenn das die Szene ist, wo der Körper gedumpft wird, ist es fast so, als hätte dieser Mann sich in den Wilden des Ozeans verloren. Weißt du, was ich meine? Richtig. Also beginnt die Crew jetzt, mit dem Lärm des Schiffs zu reagieren, das Netz zu drücken. Und wenn sie das tun, finden sie eine seltsame Metallkontraption, die in schwarzem
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Black plastic sheeting or bags, it's really hard to say and various reports have different descriptions, but black plastic sheeting of some type. According to news.com.au, an online Australia news outlet, Peterson said this to reporters, quote, End quote. Denk daran, Freddo, du bist ein Fischmacher, du bist auf dem Boot, du machst dein Ding, etwas jankt auf deinem Netz.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und dann, wenn du das hochbringst, ist es schwer und du siehst Böse. Was ist dein erster Schritt? Was denkst du an diesem Moment? Ich muss die Polizei anrufen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es ist unfreundlich, aber ich liebe es, dass ich dich gefragt habe, um mich zu verabschieden. Meistens, weil du so einen guten Instinkt für diese Art von Dingen hast. Und wenn du diese Fälle zum ersten Mal hörst, will ich immer, dass du dein Gehirn bemerkst, weil ich super in den Wäldern bin mit Jillian und Christian und wir wissen alle In und Aus.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber ich will sicher machen, dass ich von der Publikation höre, dass du diese Proxy bist, weil was macht man in einer solchen Situation? Und was du fühlst, ist sehr genau das, was sie fühlten. Weil, als sie diese Beine sahen, dachten sie sofort, okay, diese müssen zu einem Art von Tier gehören.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber welches Tier würde hier in dieser seltsamen, schweren Weise mit dieser Metallkontraption gedumpft werden? Und als sie näher sahen, merkten sie, dass etwas definitiv falsch war. Die Beine haben sicherlich ein bisschen mehr Menschheit in der Größe und Form angefangen zu sehen. Zumindest ist das ihre Art von Inklusion. Und sie befindet sich an dieser Metallform.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Willkommen zurück, Task Force, zu einer weiteren Folge von Red Web, dem Podcast über ungeschlossene Geheimnisse, echten Kram und das Supernaturale. Ich bin euer Residenz-Mystery-Enthusiast, Trevor Collins, und mit mir ist Alfredo Diaz, der für das erste Mal diesen Fall gehört hat. Okay, wir sind am Meer. Mhm.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
So of course, per your gut instinct, Peterson contacted the Broken Bay Water Police. The crew along with the police brought the body to Patonga Wharf along the river where Gosford Physical Evidence Officer confirmed that these were indeed human remains. So it does look like the scene is this. A person was tied to a metal structure, wrapped in the plastic and then thrown into the water.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Am nächsten Tag, am 12. August, wurde das Körper dann an das New South Wales Institute of Forensic Medicine in Glebe genommen, eine Städte in Sydney. In Glebe studierte Forensik-Pathologin Dr. Chris Lawrence das Körper und die Metallstruktur selbst. Nun, hier ist ein furchtbarer Begriff, den ich nicht sicher, ob ihr es jemals gehört habt, namens Grave Wax.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es hat sich auf dem Körper geformt, welches glücklicherweise einen gewissen Niveau der Versorgung gemacht hat, um einige der Features der Gefühle zu behalten, und es hat später in der Identifikation geholfen. Grave Wax, auch Corpse Wax genannt, heißt Adiposeur. Das ist die wissenschaftliche Bezeichnung. Es entsteht, wenn Körperfett auf Wärme und Bakterien ausgelöst wird.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Es wird in eine dünnflüssige Substanz verwendet, dieses wachsige Material, das dich abkühlt. Es verhindert oft eine weitere Entzündung von internen Organen sowie der Gesicht, obwohl wir finden, dass wir, wenn wir über diesen Fall sprechen, einen gewissen Niveau der Entzündung haben, der definitiv das Identifizieren des Körpers ziemlich schwierig macht.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ja, ich meine, je nachdem, in welchem Umfeld du warst, weißt du, was ist das, oh Gott, jetzt habe ich geblinkt. Es gibt so einen prehistorischen Mann oder Frau, der von einer Schmerzschmerze in ihrem Rücken gestorben ist, aber sie sind in den Bergen, wo es kalt und trocken ist, und sie wurden gefroren und essentiell versichert.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Das ist das Gegenteil davon, wo sie in einem warmen und trockenen Umfeld sind, wo Dekay schnell passiert. Es erinnert mich auch an den Fall, und wir haben es in einem Episode darüber gesprochen, spontane menschliche Kondition. Und einige der Theorien, die daran betroffen sind, gehören vielleicht zu Grave Wax, aber spezifisch zum Körperfett und wie das zu spielen kommt.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und vielleicht ist das Teil dessen, was brennt, fast wie ein menschlicher Kandel. Oh Gott, seltsam. Yeah, but otherwise it's not often that we talk about a case that includes this adipocere element, you know? So Dr. Lawrence identified the body as a man and he noted that it had been submerged for about 6 to 12 months based on decay and everything he was seeing.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Der Körper selbst war an dieser Fram, diesem Metall-Material, mit einer Rippe verbunden. Es gab einen orangenen, nicht geschliffenen Knoten an der Nase und einen anderen Knie um die Hüfte. Der Körper kann auch an den Rücken und Ankleiden verbunden sein, aber die Gründe verändern sich.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Im Rahmen oder so genannten Rack war es ein langes Stück flattes Metall, etwa sechs Meter lang oder 1,82 Meter lang und es hatte mehrere Metall-Bars an sich. Ich glaube, es gab vier Räder, die fast gleiche Länge nach unten gingen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber diese vier Räder wurden zu der Hauptlänge des Metalls geweldet, umgänglich gespacet, und einige wurden beschrieben, als hätten sie sich um den Körper gewendet, fast wie ein Rippkopf. Und vermutlich war das, um den Körper im Schirm zu halten, richtig? Also schau dir jetzt einen langen 6-Fuß-Teil von Metall an und dann fast wie ein Tee mit mehreren Kreissektionen. Du hast vier Räder.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und das ist, wo die Beschreibungen abhängen, abhängig von der Grundlage. Manche sagen, dass alle vier dieser Räder wie ein Rippenboden geradet wurden. Manche haben sie alle so recht. Manche haben die Mitte so geradet und die Ober- und Unterseiten so recht.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber egal, wir haben zumindest ein Visual, wie eine künstliche Verwendung von diesem, sowie eine der rarsten Fotos dieses Racks auf dem Wessel selbst für dich, wenn du schauen möchtest. Oh mein Gott.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich meine, dein Kopf ist in dem richtigen Ort. Das ist die richtige Frage, die man sich stellen muss. War er vor dem Zerstören des Schwertes? Ist der Schwert nur ein Weg, um sie auf dem Boden dieses Wassers zu hängen? Oder war es gruseliger? Ist es, dass sie lebendig waren, wenn sie sich zerstörten? Aber schau dir auch das zweite Bild an. Du kannst es sehen. Es ist ein altes Foto, richtig?
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Du kannst den Rack auf dem Boot sehen. Es ist ein bisschen schwierig, es da draußen zu machen. Aber du siehst den Top und den unteren Kross-Sektionen oder diese Kross-Räder besser. Ja, es sieht aus wie eine Plank mit flimsy kleinen Rädern.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Aber du hast recht, es sieht so aus. Und die Rettung, es macht es schmutzig und schmutzig. Aber das echte Item, es sieht, ja, es ist immer noch Metall, aber es sieht ein bisschen mehr...
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Ich weiß nicht, vielleicht sind die Bremsen aus der Übung, oder aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung, oder nur aus der Übung,
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Nun, was sicher ist, ist, dass der Mann im Grunde genommen zu dieser custom-getriebenen steilen Framme gebrannt worden ist. Um es genau zu sagen, weißt du, eine literale Begrüßung ist nicht das, woran wir schauen, aber sie bildet ein sehr morbidlich akkurates Porträt der Szene an der Hand, richtig? Ja. Zumindest am Nacken und an der Brust, wenn nicht auch an den Knie und den Beinen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Yeah, we're just out there kicking our little legs, paddling along until we dig up a body that shouldn't be there. And this is a really, really interesting one. And honestly, we are back in Australia. I don't know if there's something in the water or if I've got a fever and the only prescription is more Australia.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Die Bewerber beurteilen also natürlich, dass der Framestand geformt wurde. Jemand, der das gemacht hat, hat es gemacht, um genau das zu tun. Und dass es zu schwer gewesen wäre, für eine Person es zu tragen. Besonders mit der Bewerberin, die sich damit verbunden hat. Also öffnet sich unser Bewerberpool jetzt sofort zu einem Paar oder vielleicht einer Gruppe von Individuen.
Red Web
The Rack Man | The Man Found Crucified Underwater
Und obwohl es natürlich immer noch ein ungeschlossener Geheimnis ist, beginnt es, das Profil zu malen, das wir suchen. Wird diese unbekannte Person, dieser John Doe, Haben sie einen Foul mit einer Gruppe getroffen? Wissen sie eine Gruppe von Leuten, die es für sie haben könnten? Das sind nähere Fragen als jeder. Weißt du, was ich meine?
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
and looked as if it was almost too big for the body, which had long, skinny arms as they described almost reaching the ground. Wow, man, you better punt that thing. I mean, three and a half feet tall, definitely kickable, you know, almost prime kickability. But at the same time, like it's got some reach. It's Michael Phelps arms.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Right. That's an amazing running back right there. Yeah.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I mean, I think I just run recognizing that my legs are a lot longer than that little being, unless it uses its arms to run, in which case that'd be terrifying.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. But the being was also described as silver in color, which will be important. But with all these descriptions aside, there are two sketches that come from the time period based on what the family described these as. And I have them both for you here if you want to take a look. Take a peek here. Yeah. Brush those off. Let me know what you're thinking.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, like eyes being so far out to like fish eyes off to the side.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
They're just at the wrong time, wrong door. Check out the second image. It has a little bit more detail, some musculature going on, but the ears I would describe as kind of like bat-like in the sense that they're like, it looks like raw flesh, you know, like bat wings have just like that fleshy appearance.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Yeah. Very, um, if I had to guess if this was worldly, like amphibian, like, you know, like a salamander that learned to walk upright.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Now, by all accounts, when referring to this creature as they they're kind of stood in awe as these glowing eyes suddenly turn into no, that's a glowing being. Oh, my gosh, it's only three and a half feet tall and our dog is barking excessively at it. It seemed like it's the creature's hands were like on the on the window or on the screen as it was peering into the house.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, in response to the sight of this unknown creature, Lucky and Taylor went full van meter visitor, as I mentioned. They went full van meter visitor on this creature and shot at it with 20 gauge shotgun, a 22 caliber rifle. I mean, they're just trying to put this thing out. They don't know what it is, but they know, you know, they're in the wilderness.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
These are probably hunting individuals that this is some sort of maybe predator and that it's maybe studying the dog as prey, you know, so they just go full instinct.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
If you're going to come here, that's fine. Just like understand the etiquette. We sleep then. Yeah, start freaking us out. That's like when we're out of our shells, you just like, come on, we're sleeping. So what's interesting here is that the being didn't seem to be affected at all by the bullets.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But interestingly, they described it as raising its arms, quote, like it was being robbed, end quote, before it then flipped, moving away from the house. And another source actually claims that the creature instead actually approached the door with its hands up. I'm not understanding maybe the juxtaposition here.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
One's saying it put its hands up like it was being robbed, did a backflip, and off it backpedals. One says it approaches either way. It did eventually move away, and as it did, they described the creature as kind of floating rather than walking on its legs.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And the two men then retreated into the living room with the rest of the family, at which point another creature was spotted through the window of this room. So, of course, the natural response was to hide and hunker down, right? Oh, wait, no. The two men went outside and continued blasting off, again, taking their shotgun and their rifle outside to fire upon whatever this kind of...
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
this peering this peeping alien yeah whatever it was doing okay so now we're starting to creep into gun madness here yeah maybe running down the down the block firing off yeah so langford actually told author isabel davis in an interview this quote
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
it looked like i need somebody to photoshop this and send it to us it's very much like fredo describing a ufo as two plates with an upturned teacup damn look at that i need i need to see this so here's what she describes it as quote it looked like a five gallon gasoline can with a head on top and small legs it was a shimmering bright metal like on my refrigerator end quote So she also saw it.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I think that's going to be important because we will come to find out that not many of the family described what they saw that night.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Mm hmm. Five gallon gasoline can with then a head on top with some small legs. Uh huh. Uh huh.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Shining like a refrigerator.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I feel like this would be the worst time for a basic prank phone call where someone calls in and says, is your fridge running? Well, you better go shoot it. Because what if it was just a refrigerator outside just running around?
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, right. Unless it's sentient.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Okay, so as Taylor walked out the back door, he claimed talons grazed the top of his head, seemingly grabbing at his hair, right? So this is when they're stepping outside to blast off at this either second creature or the original creature, whatever it was, peering in through this window. They stepped outside, some sort of claw-like thing grabbed at his head and at his hair.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
The two men, as you might expect, then began firing on the creature. It was up on the rooftop. There was another in a nearby tree, and these creatures still seemingly were unaffected by the bullets. They would do things like flip and then disappear into the darkness before then reappearing in a different tree or somewhere else around the house or somewhere else in the backyard.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Very little. Zero, in fact. These are maybe multidimensional beings, maybe intergalactic. Who knows? This thing's going to hold out its hand like Neo and stop your bullets with a smile.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
The exact locations and the amount of creatures is uncertain. Some reports do claim very specific numbers, and we'll talk about that a little bit more later on, but we really don't know based on their actual authentic reports.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
yeah well this went on for a few hours creatures appearing gunfire brief pause what don't really know all the details in between these hours but yeah it went on for some time and i'm thinking after the first 10 minutes of gunfire not working and these things staying around i'm trying to get to a car or i mean yeah i'm trying to just get out of there
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I would start to think like, maybe I'm not in danger. Maybe what I'm doing is not working, but clearly if the bullets aren't working, I'm either wildly missing or it is impervious. And I was always the one in danger and yet I'm still here. So it's, It's a very interesting moment, I think, after hours of doing this to reflect on it.
Red Web
Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And thankfully, Lankford actually attempted to deescalate the situation. She reminded everybody that these creatures had not tried to attack them by this point and that clearly the bullets weren't doing anything. And eventually, whatever these creatures were, did seemingly flee off into the night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, when the Suttons finally felt safe enough, they themselves ran out of the house, drove in two separate cars to the Hopkinsville police station. They told the police, quote, We need help. We've been fighting them for nearly four hours, end quote. Oh, my God. Yeah. I don't know. Fighting is the right word or if it's like swinging at the air. Right. But yeah.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And that's all according to the Kentucky New Era. And we'll kind of talk about their article here a little bit more as well. Boom, they got you covered. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money will even help negotiate lower bills on your behalf.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But at least you tried. Right. Maybe ants are doing something to us when we're just kind of going about our lives. You're a kid with a magnifying glass if you're extra sadistic or you're just kind of walking down the sidewalk and don't see them. Maybe they're down there going like... Here comes another! And they're starting to launch little sand granules at you.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But I really appreciate that they scan for savings and scan for subscriptions that I may want to cancel. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money by going to rocketmoney.com slash redweb today. That's rocketmoney.com slash redweb. One more time, rocketmoney.com slash redweb. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Shopify. When you think about businesses with criminally good sales like Magic Spoon, sure, you think about in-demand product, right?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash redweb, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash redweb to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash redweb. But now at this point, this is kind of the event. I want to move now, because the police are involved, into the investigation phase.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
The police visited the house with the family and then searched the area for these little men, as they called them at that time, from around 1 to 2 a.m. So bless them, they came out and they said, let's get eyes on this thing. If you're, you know, you're feeling threatened, this is happening right now. We are on site. Okay, I mean, that's respectable. Yeah.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
The police themselves then contacted Madisonville, Christian County, and Kentucky State Police requesting backup because what they're hearing is pretty alarming. They don't know the number of creatures in sight, etc. They also actually contacted the local newspaper.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But you just, you have no idea, right? I feel like it'd be of that nature. I always go back to ants and humans when I think of humans and aliens. I don't know. It's a scale thing. It's not a technical thing, but I don't know. This topic is super fascinating. It is...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And Chief Russell Greenwell even contacted Fort Campbell Air Force Base, at which point we read that four military officers were eventually sent to the home. But in reflecting on the Project Blue Book memo on the matter, it seemed like 25 people in total were at the scene for about two hours. Now, this might have been this initial investigation or maybe a later time investigation.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But either way, neither party really found too much. In fact, the police didn't really see any animal tracks. There was no physical evidence of an aircraft that had landed nearby, right? The rainbow smoking silent thing that he saw at the beginning. Right. That said, police did see the bullet holes in the back door from the initial sighting.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So it does stand to some reason that the family saw something or at least some of them saw something enough for them to actually physically shoot out through the walls of the house or the back door of the house towards this thing.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
You know, you got only two back doors and one's now riddled with bullets. So that's really all the police did, in fact. I mean, they come out, they go, well, unfortunately, we're not seeing anything. You let us know if anything else happens. We did see the bullet holes. So, you know, they took note of that. And according to the Kentucky New Era article,
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
after police left these creatures seemed to return to the home at approximately 3 30 a.m almost like they were paying attention almost like as soon as the police left and everything went calm for the night they said all right it's witching hour we're back
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Mrs. Langford's written report in the Project Blue Book files actually states that she saw this creature outside her bedroom window at this time, and she sent her sons to make it leave. The family claimed to hear noises on the roof starting about this point and going throughout the night. This time, the Suttons did not shoot at the creatures.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Honestly, it's one of the ones that helped popularize that old adage, little green men, describing aliens as these maybe three-foot-tall creatures, big heads, big eyes, green. You also have The Greys, which is a popular title. But we're kind of exploring all the old etymology lately of aliens. Flying saucers, little green men, etc.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I think it was kind of like, listen, the bullets didn't do anything last time. Let's observe. Like maybe go shoo them off, chase them off, like, you know, make some loud noises, run at them with pots and pans and yell. I don't know exactly what they did, but hey, see if you can get them to leave.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
If not, this is just kind of the observations from that night that they seemingly were on the roof kind of clamoring around. And that's kind of about it for the rest of that night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, it does feel like intelligence or it feels like pranky. Or it also feels like you were looking for it. And so now, you know, a branch brushes the roof and you're like, ah, it's here. There's a lot in the theories to explore for sure. And I think we do have a bit of an answer here.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
A lot of the theories are pretty strong, though, and so maybe there's some sort of through thread between them all. But in the morning, many people traveled to the farm, including multiple law enforcement personnel, reporters, other citizens of Kelly. People just fascinated with the fast-traveling story of that night. You know, the story traveled all over the United States.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It actually helped, like I indicated earlier, popularize the concept of, quote, little green men, end quote. You know, this then popularized the idea, perhaps, or helped with it, the idea of shorter, bigger heads, big eyes, green skin, all of that stuff.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, of course, news outlets, especially on this story, without much information to go on, kind of leaned into the exaggeration of it all, maybe to get those papers sold or what have you. But, for example, you know, the Kentucky New Era reported that the number of creatures was somewhere between 12 and 15, that this house was swarmed with these alien creatures.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But all we really know is that there was one, maybe two confirmed or at least reported sightings from the family.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Yeah. The more sensational it is, maybe the more papers you sell. And at that time, the story actually became known as the Hopkinsville Goblins. So I don't know if that helps you see this creature any different, but it does look kind of gobliny.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Now, also that next morning, it was August 22nd, local radio station host Andrew Ledwith, a.k.a. Bud, arrived at the farmhouse to interview the Suttons. He drew the sketches based on the descriptions they gave, and I believe his sketch... was the first one.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It was slightly more simple where the arms are kind of skinnier and he just drew the outline as opposed to kind of sketching in muscles. I believe the muscle sketch might have been part of the Project Blue Book report.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. So he's laying down this initial sketch based on what the family said the next morning. He's primarily a radio host, but, you know, he sketches in his free time. He put a lot of detail into those ears, though. He really did. It's kind of like Napoleon Dynamite. You know, it took me 10 hours to finish the shading on your ears.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, after 10 days of constant visitors to the farmhouse, the Sutton family sold the house. I mean, pretty quickly. They were kind of like, let's move away from Kelly. We don't want this unwanted attention. We don't want to become the carnival of the town where people come to see potentially whatever these creatures are. You know what? Let's just leave.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
These titles are these names that haven't really been around in more recent years. Now we got UAPs. And you're talking about interdimensional beings, things like that. But this one comes from a Task Force member, actually two of them, Patreon member PinkFrap, as well as Instagram user Noah True. So thank you guys so much for submitting this one to us. Oh my God, we have two members?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Every single day, people coming down, hey, you see the aliens anymore? Can I see one? You got one in a cage that I can visit? Uh, yeah. Now, before we move into the theories, I want to reflect on the Project Blue Book documentation on this case. Like I said, there's around 100 pages, maybe a little over, in relation to these Hopkinsville goblins.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
However, despite this, it doesn't appear that there was any official investigation by the group. These files actually relied on the police investigation and those reports. Project Blue Book ultimately concluded that there was, quote, insufficient data for evaluation, end quote.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It was a warm summer's night in 1955 when the Sutton family witnessed something otherworldly on their property. What began as glowing eyes and small creatures peering into their home quickly escalated into full-blown gunfire outside. News of this event spread rapidly, first popularizing the phrase Little Green Men. Today, we explore the fascinating case of the Kelly Hopkinsville encounter.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Or in other words, they didn't really think that there was enough information to debunk or properly investigate what was going on. So they couldn't really lean one way or the other, but it wasn't enough for them to come out and do a full-on investigation. It's worth mentioning that much of the correspondence in these documents within Project Blue Book's documentation explicitly mock this case.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
There's a lot of like open thoughts on this thinking it's a little silly. I don't know much about that. I don't think this, you know, and that will come to pass in theory number three that we're going to talk about. We're going to start a little bit more mundane and then start to... Obviously finalizing with aliens.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But, you know, as we go on into more fantastic theories, there is an excerpt that I want to read from these files. And I think, yeah, it's a little mocking, but it also elucidates a lot about the situation the family was in. And I'm very curious to get your thoughts when we get there.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I've never had a Factor meal let me down. Once again, that's code FACTORPODCAST at factormeals.com slash FACTORPODCAST. And you're going to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. We often hear about the red flags that we should avoid, but what if we focused on looking for green flags in friends and partners?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
That's awesome. We got two members out here.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And if you're not sure what they look like, therapy can help you identify these green flags, actively practice them in your relationships, and then embody the green flag energy yourself Whether you're dating, you're married, you're building a friendship, or you're just looking to work on yourself, it's time to form relationships that love you back.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
In my experience, therapy is a great way to learn new tools, whether it be coping skills for things that life can throw at you, understanding yourself better and how to move through life in a more happy and wholesome way. And I appreciate that BetterHelp is a great way to step into that arena. It can be daunting to find the right person, and they've got you covered.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Task Force, you can always submit topics if you are a Task Force member on Patreon, especially you get some extra priority. We have a form over there where you can fill that out. And we always look through that when we kind of build out our creative slate, they call it in the business. And while talking about the Task Force, I want to give some shout outs, of course, as we always do.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash redweb. But before we do, I feel like we have to go with kind of some of the more obvious ones. And that's starting out with a standard little creature. You know, we've seen this theory in many cryptid and alien cases before. And it's been theorized that the Suttons simply saw an owl that night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Starting off with the main, quote, evidence, the eyes of an owl do glow brightly when interacting with light. This is due to the reflective tissue behind their retinas known as the tapetum lucidum. It's basically a layer of tissue behind the retina that reflects light back through the retina, which gives the retina a second chance to register what it's seeing, register that light and process it.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And so you can get increased vision in low light, something you'd see in cats and dogs, you know, when their eyes glow, that kind of rainbow look. Yep. The flips that they kept seeing into the air that night could have been birds wings in response to shots being fired. And if it was an owl, it doesn't necessarily have to be a three and a half foot tall thing. That could have been a mistake.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And maybe when these things are flying off or maybe just an owl being small in general, they were hard to hit. Now, depending on the type of shell they're using in the shotgun, it scatters quite a bit. But that said, it would explain, you know, maybe why these things kept showing up because they were either missing or maybe once they shot an owl down, they wouldn't notice in the night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I don't know. It could explain also some of the thinking that, oh, it's not walking backwards, it's floating. In particular, though, I do want to say if you look at the image and I have one for you here, if you look at the image of a great horned owl, which has bright yellow eyes and talons, it's got long wings. You know, the wings could look like arms that hang down to the ground.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Their eyes would glow at night. They do average 22 inches in height, which is just short of two feet. So it's not three and a half, but it's, you know, perception could be strange if you're looking through the window and it stood out there. Oh, yeah. I mean, through the window at night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I don't know how many lights they had on that side. You know, it could line up.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. You know, it's got those like feathers that stick up on the side of its head that could look like those big, long pointy ears. The band of white along its chin could kind of make that mouth shape. You know what I'm saying? That straight mouth that you're seeing at the bottom of its round head. Yep. Yeah, I can see this. The beak could be the nose kind of thing.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
We got Melissa P., X Wild Angel, Sir Curbs, Sabrina Hall, Andy Schrock, Chase Martinez, TGYK94, just to name a few. Thank you all so much. Redwebpod.com. That's our Patreon page. Fredo, what might they find over there as some thank yous, some shows of gratitude for the direct support?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And again, we don't know how many lights are on at night, if there are any. And so maybe it's just the light emanating from the house, which is enough to make the eyes glow, which is enough to give a silhouette, which makes it look like it's glowing. And then it flies off. I would say the only odd thing would be an owl being on the ground.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But if it pounced on a mouse, maybe it just freshly caught a mouse and the dog saw it and started barking. And then the story unfolds from there. Yeah, I mean, they very well could be. It lines up visually at least. Still some holes, for example, that flying saucer. So in regards to that, I do want to talk about the next theory.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It's possible that what Taylor and only Taylor witnessed that night could have been a meteor. What's interesting is that the other family members suggested this theory when he first walked into the house, claiming that he saw a flying saucer. Now, this would have been before the creatures arrived at the house.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And when you think about what he saw, it was silent, it was glowing, and it had smoke trailing behind it. That does sound like some sort of burning rock falling through the atmosphere. It doesn't explain why it stopped and plummeted and supposedly landed.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But if you didn't know what it was and you saw this thing for the first time, it would certainly draw your attention and make you a little bit afraid, I'd think.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Well, we'll talk about it in the next theory, but there's a groundwork that's been laid here. And to kind of tease at what we're going to talk about, I think the family is already on edge.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And so these things that are happening, whether it be the meteor, maybe it being the owl, maybe it being both, is laying on a foundation of already being on edge and already maybe looking for something or primed to see something new.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But before we get into that, I do want to say it's worth mentioning that the Kappa Cygnid meteor shower was active and was reported by Fort Campbell observers around this time. Now, this meteor shower happens every year between June and September. It usually peaks around mid-August, which is near where we're at.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Sometimes there's flares, sometimes there's fireballs, but typically the Kappa signets are most visible or only visible every seven years and 1955 was not supposed to be one of those years.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So regardless of that timing, it just means that it's possible that Taylor saw one of these fireballs associated with this shower and that his fears from the sighting of this meteor led him to mistake an owl or some other unknown creature for for an alien, right? And so maybe he did see something in the sky that night. To him, it was strange. And then the creatures was just a symptom of that.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I mean... It's a lot to unpack.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Yeah. And so it's a reasonable explanation, but also like if it's, I don't know enough about the Kappa Signet meteor shower, but if it's only visible every seven years and 1955 isn't one of them, I'm inclined to say, you know, maybe not. But if it happens every year and it's only visible, I don't know how that works to be, to be totally honest.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Christian, I'm very curious if there's any other like details on that particular shower that I'm missing because I don't want to pretend to be an expert here. It's just part of the theory. Yeah.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Okay. So helps close the gap on the meteor theory, but maybe it was just a random meteor. Right. Maybe it wasn't like the Kappa Cygnid shower or something. Okay. Well, interesting. Interesting. Rainbow smoke. We're talking what? It was like 7, 730 at night. So I have to believe that sun is close to setting. Christian, I'm going to throw you another curveball.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Can you look up sunset in August in Kentucky?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
There are websites that can do that. I'm very curious because when you see rainbow smoke or like clouds, I have to believe it's like golden hour, you know?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And so like it could still be some sort of meteor, maybe just not something like the Kappa Cygnet stuff.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
We're talking golden hour. I think we got ourselves some sort of smoking meteor.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. Okay. So those are the most mundane try-to-explain-things theories. This next one, I'm fascinated by. I just, like, I don't want to bury this lead any further. So one theory from Project Blue Book documents is that the Suttons were scared by one or two circus monkeys who had escaped their cages. Uh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's unclear exactly when this happened, but...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
the trucks for the King's Circus did drive down Interstate 68 and through Hopkinsville at some point in time. And as this theory goes on to say, one or two monkeys might have escaped from this traveling circus.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, this is where I want to read a memo found in the Project Blue Book files by Major Johnny Albert, who wrote that a monkey may have been covered in a silver paint giving the appearance of an alien. It's a long one.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. I don't know. So before I start reading this, I do want to point you to two screenshots, right? These are pages from the project blue book files. If you want to either read along or at least see it for some sort of veracity. And as I dive in, I also want to say that again, there was a lot of mocking within these documents, some sizing people up and making like jumping to some conclusions.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So again, this is a quote. So forgive some harsh assessment of the family, but here it is. Quote, Mrs. Langford, an impoverished widow woman who had grown up in this small community just outside of Hopkinsville with very little education.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
She belongs to the Holy Roller Church and the night and evening of this occurrence had gone to a religious meeting and she indicated that the members of the congregation And her two sons and their wives and some friends of her sons were also at this religious meeting and were worked up into a frenzy, becoming very emotionally unbalanced.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And that after the religious meeting, they had discussed this strange article, which she had heard about over the radio. End quote. This article basically talks about a monkey painted silver that was seen to be a small man, but it actually wasn't. So they're basically talking about a silver monkey in this Fort Worth article. And then the Project Blue Book memo continues on saying, quote,
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It is my opinion that the report of Mrs. Langford's sons was caused by one of two reasons. Either they actually did see what they thought was a little man, or there was a circus in the area and a monkey might have escaped, giving the appearance of a small man." Basically saying that they're trying to lay the groundwork for Mrs. Langford and the family.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Saying that because of a lack of education and because they were heavily primed by a very emotional religious meeting that night... that they were set up that night to see something. And because they immediately started talking about this Silver Monkey article coming out of Fort Worth, that again, they were primed to see little men that night. It's kind of what this memo is saying.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So Christian, help me out. If I'm thinking in my mind's web well enough, I think the Saw episode comes out this Friday.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I think there's something interesting here. And it's also hard to not try to take it as kind of accusatory. I think it really is just trying to be fact based and saying like, listen, we're talking about someone who doesn't have the tools to maybe understand what they might be seeing, which is why they're pointing out the education.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
We're pointing out the religion because that night the whole family ended up kind of highly emotional based on whatever religious ceremony they had gone to that day. And so they're in this position where they might misinterpret some other stimulus in the world or in nature or that night.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And so basically they're trying to say that even if it isn't escaped monkeys painted silver, that there really isn't much to go on here, that the family was essentially ready to see anything that night. And when they did,
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
it wasn't a surprise it's why you definitely see the bullet holes but you don't really see any other physical evidence and this is kind of why project blue book maybe didn't investigate this any further it's why there's a lot of mocking in play with this particular uh experience but i don't think the the circus declared any missing monkeys for whatever that's worth yeah so that's all i was going to ask next like was there any reports of that because then that would be something that would you know have been reported to the authorities and then you go
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And if I go chaos mode, I might pick Jason X to be the next one, which would be March 7th.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. And the other wrinkle with that, this is kind of where it starts, the silver circus monkey angle. But the big wrinkle to it, too, is, yeah, they were in the area or driving through the area, but it's also kind of unclear when that would have been. And I don't know. So it does feel like maybe drawing a coincidence or at least just trying to find a way to answer this, like... I don't know.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It's totally possible that monkeys showed up. How would they have gotten there? Ah, a circus came through. You know, it's an interesting theory. And there's like a 5% chance that it's true. But I think what's even more insightful is the kind of judgmental but harsh lens that Project Blue Book puts on the family that night to contextualize the things that we had no context for. You know?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
There was definitely some shade. It was like very bluntly like all of these things. And so it's pretty much putting all the fault on them. And I'm like, listen, whatever the fault is, I'll be honest, they were terrified. They're terrified enough to be shooting things. Exactly. Like, why don't we just gently explain to the family maybe what we think happened rather than kind of going...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, that's on you. Maybe it was monkeys. Maybe it was nothing else. Whatever. Anyway.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. But with the silver monkey behind us and all I can think of is legends from the hidden temple and the shrine of the silver monkey. I'll be honest. I actually watched an episode of that this last weekend because nostalgia hit hard and I just watched like an hour of old Nickelodeon. I digress. But with the last theory, we know we love it's aliens or is it right? Yeah. It's possible.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It's always possible. You know, you got that sliver of a chance that what the Sutton saw that night was actually an alien. We did maybe have an aircraft come through. Maybe that craft then landed. And maybe what happened was these advanced aliens poured out and began studying the family.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
They had no issues with these physical projectiles, which left them unharmed, which then when the police came and investigated, they came back after the investigation was done to continue monitoring this family. I don't know. What's interesting and, you know, we talk a lot about, well, what's the motive? What's the motive for lying? What's the motive for like making up a story like this?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Really? Oh, that's awesome. I'm so glad you haven't seen it. Listen, there's a scene where he gets rebuilt with nanobots. And I think that's all you need to know that this movie is going to be exactly what it is.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And often, you know, we quote things or point to things like you have a book, you have an article, you have a thing that you're selling. And what's interesting about this case is that the family really wasn't gaining anything from this story. And the police claimed that they were not the type of people who would actually go to the police easily.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
They would be the types of people that would want to handle things on their own, as indicated by, you know, the hours of firing upon this creature. And after receiving criticism when their story was publicized, the family was reluctant to discuss the incident any further, which again is in a lot of these more obviously scammy faux stories.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
People are like, they want to be interviewed everywhere. They want to sell a book about it.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
oh yeah and so i can't really you know like yes there's some reasonable explanations here uh and yes there's some character assassination that attempts to resolve what's happening here but at the same time it's it's hard to say like listen there there are some opposite trends happening here that do maybe lend some credency to them believing what they saw that night whether it actually be aliens or not is left to be decided but
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
You know, it is interesting because then they said, I've had enough of this. You know, I don't want the attention. I don't want them to return. Ten days later, they sold and moved. Yeah, they moved.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Right, exactly. It's always just something to weigh into the equation, right? It's never a binary answer. But what is interesting, too, and some see a potential smear campaign as a way to smother the truth, right? And so I just want to mention some of these pieces is...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But yeah, in addition to Movie Club, which you get twice a month. There are store discounts every month. You get this podcast ad free. We put up bonus videos or last month we put up a bonus episode of Red Web all about the New Jersey drones, if you remember that in December. But yeah, every month we also put out some bonus stuff, peeks behind the scenes. You get teases as to what's coming.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
that rumors began to spread around town about the Suttons and maybe throughout the news that perhaps they were drinking heavily that night, though it is worth mentioning that they were very religious and as part of their religion, they abstained from alcohol.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Lankford actually told author Isabel Davis, quote, The newspapers told lies about us, said we were drinking, end quote, and that the articles had exaggerated or fabricated parts of the story, like the amount of little men and the skin color being green. And so she herself is saying, like, listen, this story has taken our life beyond what we saw and what we claimed. Like, we saw what we saw.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
We didn't have answers for it. It terrified us. And now we have the stories blown up in a cartoonish way. It's exaggerative. There's smears now and rumors about us that are destructive. And now there's all this attention on us.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And so, yeah, for people that are believers and that are ever looking for declassification, they see this as a way to kind of, as I like to say, muddy the waters of what could be truth of actual aliens having been here, but trying to prevent the populace and the public from really seeing that clearly and believing that.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. No, it really is. And, I mean, you know, Lankford even said that, you know, people attempted to sell souvenirs on their land. That's wild. And she had to decline that. She's like, no, please. Like, so not only are they not gaining anything from this, they're actively saying, please don't be doing this. Before, obviously, then leaving.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But what's interesting, and I want to leave on this note, you know, Chief Greenwell told the same interviewer of Lankford, quote, End quote. So I think in conclusion, right, there's a lot of things to consider. You know, was this an owl? It's entirely possible.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Were they primed by whatever they did earlier in the day to be on edge or be fearful or fill in the gaps with something mysterious because of an article they heard about? No. Totally possible as well. Either way, what we do know at the end of the day is that the family or parts of the family saw something, something that they weren't sure about that terrified them. And that's the fact.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, the unknown piece of it is what exactly it was. And of course, aliens are always part of the picture, but it remains to be a fascinating case. But yeah, that is the Kelly Hopkinsville encounter, also known as the Hopkinsville goblins. Fredo, any final thoughts as we kind of close out this interesting one?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
We kind of reveal the episodes every Sunday ahead of time for people over there. So yeah, check it out. RedWebPod.com. Give us some support. Thank you so much.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Only to return, yeah. I mean, despite the pretty harsh statement by Project Blue Book, I do think that there's elements in there that help lay a foundation. If they're not well-equipped with the tools to understand maybe what they saw that night or what the initial sighting was with the craft...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
and they're coming from an emotionally exhaustive religious ceremony, I can see how that would be a breeding ground for seeing something scary and inciting some sort of large reaction. But what they saw that night, yeah, I think that will be the forever question. I think Owl's work... as an image.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I think it works when you compare the sketches with the glowing eyes, with kind of the height, you know?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But yeah, if they're firing at this thing for four hours, you know, I struggle if I hear an owl growing up in Indiana, it's a rare thing where I was, but if I stepped outside, I want to see that owl. I want to hear where it's coming from. I'm lucky if it's stuck around for 30 seconds, you know? Yeah. And I'm just silently sneaking out.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But yeah, man, it's got all of the intrigue and fascination of a typical UFO sighting or alien sighting. It's a quintessential case. And again, thank you, Task Force members Pink Frap and Noah True for submitting this one to us. It was a wonderful one to explore. And also, again, more alien etymology. Oh, yeah. We got flying saucers, and now we know where kind of little green men come from.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
It's so relatable. Like the Van Meter Visitor. You know, you're in a town in Iowa in the early 1900s. You see a large creature that scares the heck out of you. I mean, come on. That's instinct. You've laid that breadcrumb trail for four and a half years, Fredo. And so I feel like it's scratching that itch every now and then.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
You just got to have a case where someone's like doing the thing that makes the most sense, where you're going, I'm firing on that monster, you know? Yeah. I don't know what the hell that is. I'm letting loose. Bigfoot's going to tear someone's arms off someday and we're going to be like, that's what you get. Try and take a photo. You know, he's going to attack you.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But yeah, this has been the Kelly Hopkinsville encounter kind of culminating a little run of alien episodes that we did here at the top of the year. Just aliens and UAPs on the brain, you know?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Absolutely. People love aliens. Fun mysteries for sure. But with that said, Fredo, I'll see you right back here next Monday for yet another mystery.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. We actually have a floor for this, Fredo. I need you to know. We just developed Subfloor 86. We do have some animal-sized treadmills, some for horses, some for cheetahs, and there's at least 13 and a half scientists with those thick-rimmed glasses down there and clipboards. Oh, yeah. 28 clipboards and 13 and a half scientists just kind of crunching away on those numbers, you know?
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Trying to figure stuff out. We've got to get to the bottom of this. That's where subscriptions go to. Listen, it's a fiduciary environment. We're very responsible. And we put it to science. It all goes straight to science. It all goes back. And speaking of science, let me take you back to 1955. The best segue we've ever had. Leave it uncut and raw. Oh, okay.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
This is Red Web. Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the supernatural. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, as the sun set on August 21st of 1955, an extended family of 12, collectively known as the Suttons, witnessed something that they could not explain. This is a moment where I want to stop down immediately because there was a lot of confusion I was beginning to have as we started our research journey. Jillian did an amazing job pulling all this data together, collating all the information.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
But I have to say, again, it's one of those cases where it depends on the source. You know, I've seen 12 people listed. I've seen 10. I've seen seven.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
i've seen it including neighbors i've seen it only with the family so there's a lot of different ways to go about this we again looking at the broadest swath possible this is the information we pulled together you know i wanted to give that caveat that transparency as we descended into this this story yeah this game of telephone 100 and we will come to find out that there's a lot of missing information immediately following this story because the family was seeking privacy
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And that will kind of play into maybe some of the theories, kind of some of your gut instinct as we go. Does that show validity? Does it show maybe mistake? We'll get there. But I do think the lack of wanting to talk about it in the aftermath kind of prevented a lot of available information. So, you know, people filled in the gaps and news news stories went pretty crazy with it at times.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Especially if, you know, you're dealing with something, I don't know, otherworldly. You might just kind of be like, yeah, that was crazy. I was scared and I need to leave that behind. Especially when, like, everyone nowadays is trying to monetize anything. Sure. So, yeah. This would be slapped on social media, you know, the Reels, the TikToks, immediately.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So, the family itself, to the best of our knowledge, consisted of the widowed matriarch, Glenny Langford, who was 50, her two adult sons, both 25, and their wives, 29 and 27. It also included her three younger children, 12, 10, and 7 respectively, and her brother-in-law and two family friends, known as the Taylors, who were 21 and 18, who happened to be visiting at the time.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, like I said, the amount of family members present fluctuates depending on the source, but we found the adults ages, which were also reported to be different things or not reported at all. These ages came from a written report in project blue book, which we recently covered.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I have a screenshot of that page for you Fredo, because I think it's so fascinating that there was, I believe a near 100 page report on this incident in project blue book. So if you want to take a look, it's like a minorly redacted letter.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah. And we'll talk a little bit about Project Blue Book as we go through. Again, we did a whole episode on Project Blue Book itself, its origins, what it was doing, why it's always kind of associated with these UFO stories. So go take a look at that episode. But yeah, we'll refer to this report periodically throughout the episode.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, the Suttons lived in a modest farmhouse in the small town of Kelly, Kentucky, on the western side of the state. The house was very small, and reportedly had no running water, no phone, and no television. In fact, for the sake of the story to come, I wanted to go ahead and give you Fredo and Task Force...
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, that'd kind of be like the foyer there where it's like a narrow room where you first walk into the right as the single bedroom to the left is the living room with a kitchen attached. So kind of an L on the side shape. Interesting.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And then probably for heat, you know, because again, it's not like wired. This is an old, almost like a smaller shack of a house, right? Where it's not properly wired or plumbed. So it's, that's where you're getting your heating from.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Mm-hmm. So this house, just to give you an idea more geographically, it's about eight miles or 13 kilometers north of the larger town of Hopkinsville. Again, the name Kelly Hopkinsville, it's in this arena. Hopkinsville itself is about 20 miles north of Tennessee. Generally, we're just looking at southwest Kentucky.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Now, at around 7 p.m., Billy Ray Taylor was outside getting water when he saw bright lights in the sky. Taylor is going to be the centerpiece of this experience, and he claimed to see what he described as, quote, a silvery object, end quote, silently flying towards their home. So whatever this was, there was bright lights in the sky heading in the direction of the house.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And he also stated that he saw exhaust or smoke seemingly emanating from this craft that included, quote, all the colors of the rainbow, end quote.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
yeah now as i kind of paint this picture using his words see if you can visualize it in your mind we don't know how high it was so a silvery object silently flying some smoke or exhaust coming off of it and that smoke was kind of all the colors of the rainbow this will play a little bit into the theories but this is just the beginning of everything to come so seemingly this object went over the house before suddenly stopping mid-air and then dropping to the ground
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Where exactly it landed in relation to the farmhouse is unclear. We don't really hear of or see this aircraft again. When Taylor returned to the house, he told everyone what he saw was a quote, flying saucer, end quote. But no one really believed him. About an hour later at 8 p.m., the Sutton's dog began barking at the back door in the bedroom of the house.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
So again, referring to the diagram I showed you, I guess it's not the north. It's a little bit northeast, that top wall, basically. That's where the dog is stood. That triangle that kind of swings out, that's indicating a door. So he's there looking outside, barking profusely at something as if something's there. Obviously, dogs have heightened senses and they notice it stands out.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
He's not always barking, but suddenly, man, he's on to something. So Billy Ray and one of the Langford's sons, Cecil Sutton, aka Lucky, went to go check on the dog and see why it was suddenly barking so much. When they walked into the room, they saw what they described as large glowing eyes looking through the back door.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
And apparently these eyes were right up against the door, seemingly studying the dog or looking into the house. Whatever it was, was right up against the glass. Hell no. Hell no. Well, what do you do? Your dog's over there.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
I would hope that, you know, I don't have a pup yet in my life, but I would hope that I would have one of those movie-trained pups where I could go, Joseph, get over here. And he'd perk up, look, and walk right to you. Because I just would be terrified that if I went to go scoop up the corgi, right, your little two pups, that whatever it is smashes through the glass, out you go.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
A little bait and switch, you know? Yeah.
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Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter | Was This Farmhouse Terrorized by Goblins or Aliens?
Yeah, absolutely. Now, upon looking closer, these large eyes again were glowing and they seem to be from a glowing being. The being itself was about three and a half feet tall. These large eyes no longer floating in the air, but this whole creature kind of glowing. Its head was extremely round and
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Lubbock Lights | The Unexplained UFO Sighting Witnessed by Scientists
Action, kleine Preise, große Freude.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We'll talk about some of the theories. But as we continue to build out this idea, though, some people see them all as a much more futuristic aesthetic. And it's so expansive that they get this sense that it's its own city, that it might go on forever forever.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
some people see that there are large features like an airport attached some people think that this whole mall is in the middle of a forest and some people experience it as like a coastal town so they're in the mall and then suddenly the mall just opens up to a wall and you're at the beach and there's an ocean and a cliff face and you're seeing cruise ships in the distance
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
and it's developed so much and there's so much overlap between all these experiences that redditors have started to create a map of their dreamscapes they're like okay you have the mountains but my mountains have ice on them or you're seeing valleys but my valleys are endless and pitless right right and so there was actually and this is where i have another image for you to check out the reddit user anonymous mute kittens
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And I got pulled into the mall world not too long ago where it just started popping up in my algorithm. And I'm so fascinated by the concept of shared dreams. And so that's really gonna be our angle on this one. You know, as we dive in, I do wanna say that we love exploring the mysterious. That's what we do here on Red Web.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
kind of collated all of the images from the subreddit and pasted them onto kind of a map where you have in the west some frosty mountains with an icy town on the other side so expansive we write novels i know But then you have an alcove, like a bay with an ocean. You have what looks like either a valley or like a bottomless pit over to the east.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And then they paste on that map, okay, here's this user, here's that user, here's their screenshot, their screenshot. I don't know. It's a luxury seaside home. Exactly. But it starts to like show all of the, yes, traditional malls. But in addition to that, some people are seeing things that lean a little bit more hotel or more water park or more amusement rides.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And again, we'll talk about this in the theories, but it starts to have the same energy of the Internet's back rooms. where there are endless water slides that go off into oblivion. You have hallways that are just liminal spaces that, you know, just feel haunted.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Absolutely. I mean, that is totally valid. It might start in an authentic place. You have other people coming into roleplay, RP as they say online, or build out this world because it self-feeds. You're totally right. Because once you are validated in the sense that other people are seeing what you're seeing, you might be more inclined to dream it because you're thinking about it.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And you're part of a community. You're totally right. And I can't wait to kind of once we get through some of the more descriptions and experiences to kind of explore those theories that psychologically might help answer why this phenomena happens, how people have these shared experiences. Because, again, it starts to move from metaphysical into a, oh, we can break this down.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We can understand this. And that's, oh, I love that sweet spot. So Puppies for Prez, wonderful username, they even said with regards to this map, they said, quote, this is wild because this is super accurate to how I experience everything there. So again, just more people sharing their experiences, kind of validating each other's visions and what have you.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But now I want to talk about the feeling of familiarity. And many commenters have that feeling. are described in their posts. You know, this feeling that they've been there before. They know how to navigate it. They, even though it's endless, they just have this sense. It's like severance.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
mark just knows where to go even though it's a left right turn right right turn left that's true that's true sometimes he has a little like a little note or something like that a lot of times i'm like how the hell everything is the same right and this is where i know you're gonna appreciate this this is where the community started to get tangible okay they wanted to do some analysis
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Reddit user BookwormBOTPH conducted a visitor analysis survey that they called, and they asked various people from the subreddit about their experiences. And I will say, to be totally honest, the sample size is 171, so it's tight, so it might be biased towards the people more engaged. However, within that survey, answers showed that 81.3% of users agreed with the statement, quote,
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We really wanna peek behind the veil of what's happening, whether it be a case, a mystery, a really interesting premise. But I love that we have real and rational conversations around it. We're not just going to believe it straight out. Oh, yeah. I'm going to question things. Absolutely. We got to poke and prod. And that's what is going to have to happen with this one.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
When I am dreaming in the mall world, I see specific locations that are seen over multiple dreams, or areas that I've been before that are geographically consistent over time, which I can use to reliably navigate." So, if they see a mountain with a tree to the right, they always see that tree there.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
If they see a hallway that twists to the left and goes back right and then left again, it always stays like that. Which, for me, is completely unfamiliar. Anytime I'm in a dream, if I'm going upstairs, they turn into treadmills.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And, you know, we can talk about it. Is the brain making the reality and you subscribe to the truth of it and so it continues to render the same thing? Or is it the opposite direction, right? There's a fun way to talk about it both ways, but...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
ultimately my curiosity lied in the realm of okay if there is a deep familiarity here is it from people having this as a recurring dream which makes sense or is it the experience of somebody having this for the first time like if i go to bed tonight and i dream of the mall world will I have suddenly this really eerie sense of familiarity.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
I couldn't decipher between the two, and it seems like it's more the former and less so the latter. This place doesn't have a mystical familiarity to it as much as it is repeating for people, and that's where it comes from.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Because when you're online, people could just say whatever they want.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But moving on, talking about more of the sensations and feelings have. This is, I kind of got ahead of myself, but upon waking up, many users report feeling anxious, unsettled, or generally uneasy about what they experienced. Not having those feelings in the dream, only when they wake up does reality kind of set in a little bit and they start to go, hold on a second, everything was wrong.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Why was I curious instead of like as terrified as I am now?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, dude. When you wake up, you kind of get a little bit more sober. You have this dream brain. I've always described it as like, I got an idiot dream brain. It just thinks things. Two plus two equals fish, and that is logic. But then I wake up and I go, what am I talking about? Right. I think it's just like...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Absolutely. So now this is a great opportunity to dive into our writer's note here. This comes directly from Kat Cardenas, who has stepped in periodically to help us research some of our mysteries over the years. She and us go way back.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And so what was really, really funny, though, is when Christian's working with her and we kind of give her the mall world as one of her first Internet mysteries to kind of break down and analyze.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
she starts going wait a minute i have this experience hold on so the mall world found her somehow right yeah in her dream and then in reality and so i'm gonna quote her here i'm gonna turn all of her eyes into she but here's what she said so she has had several experiences with the so-called mall world and she didn't realize that it was something that other people had also experienced
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
As she was reading through the subreddit, she saw others' experiences, and her dream mall shares many of the same qualities. She hasn't dreamt about the mall in quite some time, but as a child, it was one of the reoccurring dreams that she would have. And every time she'd had it, it was the exact same mall. It didn't look the same to any of the malls that she had actually been to.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So it wasn't the same as her local mall. There's none of that reality seeping into the dream. It's its own unique thing that she is seeing the same thing up. If that makes sense. It is its own mall that she keeps seeing.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
She can recall escalators that seemed to go on for miles, and the mall itself was akin to a small city. Specifically, she remembers being in an unnamed shoe store where the walls were hundreds of feet high, right? The shelves just went and went and went and went, and there were shoe boxes stacked on top of one another all the way from the floor to the several hundred foot ceiling.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And in the dream, she said she never felt scared or in danger. She was very curious, wanted to wander around, look at things. But then after she woke up, she felt deeply unsettled for what she felt like was no reason. Like she couldn't put her finger on it, but there was something deeply unsettling to it. And maybe that's just an uncanny valley sort of thing. Right.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
It's a familiar place with like these crooked...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
like ai art yeah but like you know what i mean like dreams do that they bend that reality as we come to a close on the background information man that's hold on i can't i gotta i gotta pause on that because that's just so cool to me yeah that's pretty cats experience almost all the details just mirror what we're seeing on this subreddit yeah yeah they do which is a little it's it's pretty wild or it's like oh and i guess you know it's for cat not to know really what that was and go oh that's what that is
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, she's actually AndyW2014. She made the subreddit. That's just wild to me. Yeah, dude, it really is. And again, whether we can debunk it, so to speak, with science and logic and psychological phenomenon or not, I am in love with this type of oddity. I don't know.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So as we come to a close on the background information, this is where I want to talk about the heavy similarities between the backrooms, liminal spaces, and mall world, because they've all kind of really popularized in recent internet years. So some have claimed that the mall world actually predates the phenomenon known as the backrooms. And the backrooms kind of are a thing now.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Especially, and I feel more like I have to say this now because the internet's continuing to change. Dead internet theory went from a meme to kind of a, hold on a second, is that maybe real now? So I did want to express that we're going to enter this really interesting conversation about this fascinating space
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
It's more of a genre, but it started as a creepypasta that got popular in 2019 on 4chan. And it's described as a series of poorly lit empty rooms that just inherently feel eerie or off.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
they're like familiar textures you know carpets yellow walls wallpaper it's kind of decrepit and it goes on forever and it's an endless maze and somehow it feels familiar but the absence of anything else no furniture no people no windows is what makes it really eerie and that brings us to another similar phenomenon of that of liminal spaces have you ever heard of these things before
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yes, sir. They got some good stuff. Living Spaces, if you ever need to sponsor anything, and I know you don't. Oh, really?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Get in here. Yeah, we've gotten couches from there, and they last ages. Huge shout out. But please. we could use a sponsor anyway i'm calling genuine sponsorship please uh so liminal spaces are places that would typically be very busy or full of people a mall a school anything like that you know even a beach But instead of being filled with people, they have everything else you normally expect.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
The cash register, the furniture, the shopping goods in retail. But instead, they're completely empty. There's no people. And this lack of people gives, again, that very strange, even alien at times feeling. It's that uncanny valley of I've never seen this space empty. Like if you've ever been at school after hours and the lights are kind of dim and no one's around, you're like, this is just wrong.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
I think that's why my big phobia is having my back to a long, dark hallway. You know, you don't know what's down there. And my brain always wants to hear distant, but quick footsteps that are like sprinting at you. I hate it, dude. It's not good.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah. So this has also been a very popular concept because of that uncanny valley experience. It's just unsettling and some people indulge in that. It's its own form of scary or horror. So a lot of people have described their mall dreams as being very liminal spaces coded And so that's kind of related here. But predating this specific subreddit are forums that go back to 2008.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
You know, there are records online of people talking about their experiences in places like the mall world, sharing this idea. And so it is a which one created the other? Are they similar phenomenons that all rose together? Either way, they've super tapped into something on the Internet and people are in love with them.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
I know I am. So we're going to dive into the theories in a second, but I love that Kat put this in here too as one of her extra pieces. So can you visit the mall world? Some Redditors have actually theorized it's possible to intentionally lucid dream, right? That's when you are aware you're dreaming and therefore you can control it. Dude, I've had a dream within a dream before.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And a lot of the stories and background information on the subreddit will be coming from the people themselves who share their dreams. And there are so many conversations around this is what I experience.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
It was like inception. I woke up and I said, I'm still dreaming. And then I woke up again.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
thankfully my body for long since then has been like when you gotta go you wake up and then i zombie over and you know whatever but yeah i i always make sure not to drink too many liquids before i go to bed just out of fear just right here we're all traumatized from five-year-old selves or whatever age dude so traumatized man Yeah.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But I think what's going to be really interesting as we dive into this is that there's so many people, including one of our own researchers who we've worked with for quite some time, Kat Cardenas. She has experienced this and she had no idea that this was a shared phenomenon between She's like, I thought this was just me. What? Yeah.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So either way, that aside, there have been people that say that, hey, you could astral project or even lucid dream, you know, kind of the out-of-body experience, astral project, where that's how you can access this potentially metaphysical area that's starting to get into a different theory or a specific theory.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So some think that this might be a plane that exists out there that when we dream we tap into, but you might be able to consciously get there. And reception on this idea has been quite mixed. Some users claim that once they're lucid dreaming, it's almost like they're shaken out of it, that they are no longer able to penetrate the concept of the mall world, even if they try really, really hard.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Interesting. I've also gone through my own bout of trying to lucid dream. It takes quite some time of actual trying, but it's very cool. But there's times where you get a little excited or your brain starts to get too awake. And it's almost like the Matrix when the world falls out below you. I was pulled up into a white void and I was like, I'm losing the dream.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Then I woke up and I imagine trying to get somewhere very, very specific and concentrating too much can kind of shatter that very fragile sleep state.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But other people have said, yes, I can get there when I lucid dream. But the odd thing is everything feels different. almost as if the mall world knows you're consciously aware and it's like we shouldn't allow conscious brains into this arena oh interesting yeah yeah you're too you're too conscious of what's happening here yeah you don't have access get out of here
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
yes and so again then you enter the realm of like you getting pulled out or even thrown out of the mall world in some way but i don't know exactly how strange it gets it all depends on the person but that things are just different but beyond that i think what stands to interest is that lucid dreaming aside when people are in this place they can read things and they can do things that they don't feel like they can normally do in dreams
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
like i think one of the checks for if you're dreaming or not to trigger lucid dreaming is light switches in a dream they normally don't work if you look in a mirror your face is going to be a little weird if you try to read something it's usually gibberish i guess yeah i've never i don't think i've ever in a dream flipped a light switch or looked at a mirror ever now that i think about it Yeah.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So that's how I triggered lucid dreaming. I said, every night as I went to bed, I said, I'm going to go flip the light switch. I just kind of thought about that. Right. And so if I ever ended up in a room, I'd try to make it a habit to go, ooh, let me go hit that light switch. I never thought about that. But what's weird is...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
you try to lucid dream you kind of can't make it into the mall world but when you are dreaming and you're there it operates in a way that dreams don't i don't know right that starts to get into the personal experience of it all but with that said let's dive into some of the theories two of these come from my gut instinct i feel like i don't want to toot my own horn i feel like i've got it deconstructed i'm very curious okay on your thoughts
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And so we're going to explore kind of as she wrote in our outline, you know, some of her experiences. But yeah, so a lot of people have come to this subreddit and go, please let this be real because I've experienced this and I really hope you guys aren't making this up. And a lot of people insist it's real. And, you know, we've seen that.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But the first one we're going to start off with, as we like to do, is taking this at face value. Is there something here and how can we try to explain it? So many have raised the question of how it could be possible for so many people from so many different cultures and environments around the world to have this same dream.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
To answer this question, many have pointed to Carl Jung and his idea of the collective unconscious. So he was a Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who founded analytical psychology, and Jung believed that due to the very structure of the human brain, humanity as a whole shares a collective unconscious, and that the unconscious contains different archetypes that are universal.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Now this would be separate from each person's personal unconscious, which is tailored by their experiences in life, everything that they go through,
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
but again this is a theory but this is kind of what he was saying and this is what a lot of people point to is that okay we have our own consciousness we have our own unconsciousness but what he's saying is maybe there's something different that we can all tap into collectively and maybe that is where the mall world and shared dreams come from Does that make sense? Yes. Kind of like a hub.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Kind of like a hub. Yeah. It kind of reminds me of the concept of the Akashic Records, which is this idea that there is another plane that we can all access, which is a library of all information and all knowledge that humanity has ever and will ever access. That these records exist like a library in some sort of unconscious space. Maybe we'll explore that someday, but...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
boiling it all down the idea here the theory is that the mall world is a manifestation of modern day collective unconscious a meeting place that most everyone grew up with and grew up knowing and visiting in their dreams whether we remember it or not oh interesting
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Maybe when we all dream, we live a separate life. And in that life, this you and me recording this episode, task force listening, we're the dream, you know, and, and they forget that we are on this podcast or whatever. And then, I don't know, there's tons of people that explore like fringe theories like that. And they're all really fascinating people.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And heck, even if you're talking about a serial killer, we've got people that claim to be that. And so even when it's a true crime case, there's people out there fibbing.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Okay, so these next two, I don't want to say are uniquely mine. I think some of the theories tap into these elements, but I'm trying to put in my experiences and my understanding about certain things in here. So, let's talk now about the next theory. The Bader-Meinhof phenomenon. Alright, so... You've probably heard of this before, whether you know it or not.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Per Psychology Today, quote, the frequency illusion, also called the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon, is a cognitive bias in which someone learns a novel concept or word and then suddenly, seemingly, encounters it everywhere. Whereas in fact, it is more salient because it has been recently observed. I mean, you even tapped into this earlier in the episode.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Maybe this started as an experience that you had, but now that you're aware of it, You're just seeing your dream and everyone else's dreams. Maybe we all have shared dreams and it's just the odds. There are billions of people, you know, and we all are going to share something a little bit. There's another Alfredo Diaz out there and he might look just like you.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
and then who's to say yeah i mean there's only so many different ways a person can think uh only so many different personality mixtures and so yeah for sure yeah so if you distill it down and this isn't just disarm the intrigue of it but it's to help explain it it's not odd for one person to dream of a mall
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And maybe you share that very vivid, unique, strange dream with a friend and it causes them to reflect and they go, you know what? I also had a similar dream one time. And then you start to ask more people and it snowballs, right? You start to notice it more.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And then maybe you create a subreddit where now millions of people have access to this subreddit and they can also start to reflect on their experiences. And then thousands of them filter in, they share their experience, and then they start to create this community where now it's much more vivid, much more built, and then almost becomes self-fulfilling, right?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yep. Yep. Now here's the thing. We could sell out. We could go real hard and just believe everything we ever are told. And I don't know if we would explode or not. Some people it seems do, but I love that really narrow lane where we like, we lean in, understand the story. And then especially through your lens, we poke and prod and, We react to things.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, yep. You know, you could process the meaning of life. You could process the meaning of mall world and why we're all going there. And are there any coupons or discounts I need to know about, right? Yeah. It's kind of like Task Force HQ. This is like our nebulous headquarters where we record the podcast.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
587 levels and growing, subterranean, all around the world, each of them burrowing down to the core so we can then make one hub, right, where they can all share an elevator. Yep. That's kind of what it feels like, but I don't know. You know, you create that subreddit and it starts to add more weight to it.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But I think this might also dovetail into this next theory, which is again, now this one's definitely more out of my pocket because I've lived long enough to see very, very heavy, vivid mall use. I've also lived through what's known as the retail apocalypse of the 2010s as malls started to shift and decline. So let's talk about all of this. The concept of dead malls.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So what stands out to me the most about these experiences is the striking similarities. You know, they transcend age, environment, geographical locations, because mall layouts, aesthetics, and store types all differ by the climate you're in, the location you're in. But they've also changed over the years. And maybe that answers for these unique shifts.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
You know, you have the beach one, the mountain one, etc. But they're all still malls. And as I'm exploring all of these posts, I'm scrolling through, I'm trying to grab more comments and more data points. This got me thinking about the concept of dead malls. You might have heard it as zombie malls or ghost malls. Right. Very popular given the recent pandemic, right? A couple of years ago.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So today, we explore the shared dream phenomenon and the strange subreddit known as the mall world. This is Red Web. Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the paranormal. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me hearing this internet case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But these are malls where the foot traffic has dropped to essentially zero. You know, maybe there's no foot traffic in their stores, or maybe the stores are starting to disappear, or maybe the mall itself is starting to decay. In some way, the mall is fading and it's not what it once was, right?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
it wasn't so terrifying yeah there's there's the real terror of like going into an illegal place law enforcement or i don't know still water stagnant water and other like yeah health risks yeah like fungi like black mold and whatever else but yeah no i love those videos of people exploring those and you'll see like malls go several floors down into a basement and you're like i had no idea this existed or there's like dead malls under living malls it's it's it's wild
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So these dead malls really started to pick up steam during the so-called retail apocalypse of like the kind of last decade. And then it was greatly exacerbated by COVID-19 when many malls and physical stores all across the world had to close during 2020. And then as I started to think about it, I'm like, okay, yes, some of these stories go back to forums in 2008.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But the arrival of this subreddit being in 2021, it's kind of like maybe this was a product of the zeitgeist. You know, there's so many reporters and news stories talking about malls closing, having a lot of fear. Oh, are certain businesses that have been staples for decades going to go completely bankrupt?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
I mean, that was a very vivid conversation, I believe, during like the March, April timeframe when the market's crashing and stores are literally closing over these months.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So that's kind of some of the background I wanted to set. This is a very fascinating topic. And I love dreams. You know, we've explored them in other episodes that I'll talk about here in a second. But as we dive in, as always, I want to give a huge, huge shout out to our task force members over at redwebpod.com. The number one way to support the show. Truly, it is the reason we're still going.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
You know, at least for recent years, you can answer for maybe that's why it's penetrated the psyche. Maybe that's why people start to dream about it. And then with the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon or people finding each other online, it starts to take on a bigger meaning than maybe there actually is. So it starts somewhere real and then elevates and evolves into something really interesting.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Ooh, where would it shift to? Because when we, yeah, like you're saying, when we were kids, malls were like the third space. You have work, school, home, right? Whatever it is. But then that third space is the recreational.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, I feel like I've always heard them as outlet malls, but that's primarily because the few that I've been to were all in Florida, and those were outlet malls in particular. I don't know if there's a definition, to be totally honest. Task Force, let us know if you know, but yeah, outdoor malls are certainly...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
still pretty common there's malls here in austin i've been to and i know kids kick it you know at the food court getting their amazing sabaro pizzas yeah their panda's express but um it's probably less common but i do still like seeing it it's still kind of a nostalgic vibe but yeah i'm very that's a very interesting question task force let us know in the discord yeah
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Where do you think the next mall world will be? Is it going to be basement world? You know, I mean, we had that too. Maybe it'll be phone world. Everything is just one big phone. Maybe it'll just be Tron and we'll all we'll be on the grid.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yes. And you know what the dangerous thing is? The scary thing, I should say, is what's the next thing where you go, man, I wish I should, at least I'm scrolling and I'm not doing that because I'll show you the evolution. It was, you know, there's literature, there's nonfiction, there's studying and there's working.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And over the years, then like fictional books started to come out and people are like reading for entertainment. And they're like, that's going to rot your brain. You're getting a story fed to you instead of making your own story or living your own life. You got to drop those books down and go do something else. Go play outside.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And then it became cutting forward many centuries and decades and whatnot. You have TV. Stop watching TV. Stop watching movies. Go read a book. Oh, wait a minute. I thought that was the bad thing. And then it's like you're playing your video games. Why don't you go watch at least watch TV, you know? Yeah. And then you start scrolling on your phone.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We're coming up on our one year indiversary and our five year anniversary soon thereafter, which is gnarly. It's crazy.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
You're like, well, why don't you go play video games or something else?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
There's an ad on your face. That's scary. Yeah, you're like, let me go to the... I'm going to go to my VR room. Ready Player One style. I'm going to go visit Disney World real quick. And what's after that? Maybe you take a bite of...
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
of a moon landing you know you like you take a pill and it tastes like going to the moon the whole experience oh my god so like in a split second you can have your brain downloaded with the experience of what it's like to go skydiving or wouldn't that be crazy that's like the matrix stuff like i need to learn how to ride a motorcycle or fly a helicopter yeah i'm about to say at what point am i saving up so i can like eat and ingest and download a new skill set that i didn't have before like 100
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
All right, one more theory here. This one's pretty simple, straightforward. Straight up, the idea of multidimensional dreams. You know, several Redditors within the mall world and around it have... discuss the idea that the mall world itself might actually be a physical location and that maybe we're visiting it via that astral projection or whatever happens when we dream, right?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We start to get into that fringe ideology, but maybe it's in another dimension that we can only access while we sleep. And you have users like MarkB9 who theorize that this is kind of like the upside down. You know, he shared his thoughts that, you know, maybe this is just, we all recognize malls and therefore we dream them.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Or maybe it's kind of like the upside down from Stranger Things and maybe this is just a place that we all get to escape to sometime and some of us remember it and it's kind of a shared memory because of that. Maybe it's a construct of our unconsciousness while we're asleep. I don't feel like I want to be that connected to someone or strangers.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, you block somebody on social and then you see them in the mall in your dreams. You're like, I'm sorry, I try to just disconnect a little bit, you know? Right. I mean, that's where my head's at. That's really interesting. The idea that like there's a shared consciousness I've always thought is fascinating, but I've never thought of it like that. The other side.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Maybe I need a little bit of privacy, you know? Like, what if I don't want to be tapped into like that? Yeah. Ooh, and what if the CIA through Project Stargate can dabble with that and start to scoop into your life a little bit? Okay, okay. I'm getting off the rails, but these ideas are out there.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Truly, truly. So this week, I want to shout out Haste, who has been super active in the Discord. He's a buff scientist. So flex that brain. And of course, here we go. We got the squonks. Get out the Hitler.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Well, this has been the interesting subreddit known as The Mall World. Any final thoughts as we come to a close on this really interesting topic?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
I think I'm going to carry this into the break room. I know we're live streaming that this Wednesday. It will come out here now in May as a VOD, the second episode. But man, yeah, I feel like we got to keep talking about this. It's so interesting.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Totally. All right, Task Force. Well, if you want to join us for any break room, we stream that recording every month. We post that on social media, so you know it's coming. But if you want to be part of the conversation, join us at redwebpod.com, where you can either join the podcast as it's streaming, as it's live, or you can listen to it after it's posted.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But either way, lots happening over there every single week, and it's the number one way to support us. You can also review us wherever you listen to podcasts. chuck us a five stars leave us a little message and maybe uh someday in the future we'll do a little fan mail show and we'll read those but with that said Fredo I'll see you right back here next Monday for yet another mystery
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
list get your water guns out zachary or tucker did it and brett omura this week thank you all so much head to redwebpod.com see all the bonus stuff you get every single week there's something else happening sometimes more than weekly so lots to digest over there but with that i want to dive into the endless halls of the mall world
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So r slash The Mall World is a subreddit community dedicated to the shared dream phenomenon and a place of the same name, The Mall World. You know, we've talked about strange dreams during the Happy Valley Dream Survey. Within that, there's a growing attraction to the idea of strange dreams, shared dreams, this... kind of outer consciousness, higher level of shared metaphysical realm.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And not a lot of scientific data, to be completely honest. But I have such a deep fascination with the potential of that. You know, we did a whole episode even on sleep paralysis where Fredo, you and Christian and others have shared their experiences with sleep paralysis, which is scientific. Yeah. Yeah. And what you've seen has been pretty crazy.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
It is scientifically understood kind of like what is going on there and why. But one of the elements within that is like shadow entities, demons, things like the hat man. Now that is a uniquely shared experience across the world and across cultures. And so that's what I love is that we have something that we kind of understand.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And then for some reason, people all around the world without knowing about each other's experiences are also experiencing the same image. Right.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
then after hearing about the hat man still haven't experienced the hat man knock on wood yeah bless that bless that but yeah so it's really hard to tell and that's i think going to be the crux of some of the theories here because this does land in the realm between some of the known and the unknown and i think what's really going to be the crux of this topic is beyond the fascination and the intrigue
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
is what is maybe explaining this? What is behind the scenes that we can scientifically evaluate that allows such a unique and interesting phenomenon to exist? And I think you're tapping into one of those, so keep that thread going as we explore what Mall World is.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
But as you dive into the subreddit, it's essentially a collection of thousands of people who all have shared near identical experiences and locations within their dreams. It was created on September 23rd, 2021 by Reddit user AndyW2014, and since then it has amassed over 23,000 members. When looking a little closer, it's also interesting to let the users themselves explain the subreddit.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And to them, it's kind of this dreamscape that many have visited or experienced in their dreams. And many of these accounts overlap with one another, like this very complex Venn diagram where, OK, we have very similar endless escalators and endless windows, but mine takes on a feel like this and yours is like this. And so we'll even talk about like there's a map that's been generated.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
that puts all of these posts together in one geographical place. It's so interesting, yeah. And to look at the original creator, now this isn't the person who invented this concept. AndyW2014 actually says, quote, I originally created this page to make sure I wasn't the only one experiencing this stuff. And they also said, just to be clear, mall world dreams don't have to be about an actual mall.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
They are any experiences that seem more realistic or more emotionally impactful than an ordinary dream or even waking life, end quote. So yes, it's definitely mostly focused on people seeing malls, but it's also kind of beyond that. It's also the shared dream experience. So I know we kind of started at the top with your reactions. Right. I'm very curious. Have you ever had dreams like this?
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Where is a mall? Or maybe you have recurring dreams of the same location? Or have you ever had a dream that you've shared with somebody else where you're like, oh, my God, we were both in the same place?
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Have you ever dreamt of being trapped in an endless shopping mall that feels oddly familiar? Well, you wouldn't be alone. In 2021, a strange subreddit emerged where thousands of users described the same surreal place featuring looping hallways, flickering lights, and unsettling rules. No one knows where it started or why so many remember it.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah. I think I've had a shared dream one time and it was with my late cousin who, when we were kids, we were having a sleepover at my aunt and uncle's house and we woke up, we shared the dream. He was filling in gaps and I was filling in gaps. And it's one of those things where I look back and I go, was it us being kids and being creative?
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Because at the time we were blowing each other's like, like minds going, uh, do we have this, the same very unique dream where we're, it was like,
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
constantly going through these various color portals and going down honestly this actually starts to sound like mall world a little bit but going down these various slides because that's one of the things that happens in mall world yeah but only like maybe once or twice in my life have i had recurring dreams and when you have those they really stand out you remember every detail and uh i don't know there's something unique about that and how they make you feel when you wake up
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So the specific details of mall worlds do vary from person to person, but it's mainly described as a large, ornate mall with seemingly perpetual floors, shops, attractions, and unsettling rules or kind of the way of the world, how things work. giving many an air of mystery, but also dread.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Good questions. You're laying the foundation for things we're going to explore today. But man, am I excited to be back on an online mystery. It is where we cut our teeth. It is our bread and butter. We love exploring online mysteries. It's one of our favorites. And this one is super unique. We've covered unique subreddits in the past.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
So when they wake up, a lot of people recognize that there is this feeling of dread or fear that overwhelms them.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And I can't wait to talk about Kat's experience in particular, because she very vividly shares that same thing, where in the dream, she's very curious, she's looking around, but when she woke up, and she'd had this multiple times, it sounds like, she was filled with dread or fear, like she was in a place where she shouldn't have been,
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
and it's only once you're awake where you realize that was really unsettling yeah that's weird um it's not a good feeling someone who's had sleep paralysis like to wake up with that kind of uh i don't know this feeling that those feelings as emotions it's very jarring when you wake up for sure so one of the most prominent shared experiences in the mall world are escalators that seem never-ending in addition to elevators that are entirely made of glass and seem also countless in their own ways
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
We actually have an image that somebody shared on the subreddit that tries to capture this idea of endless escalators. I believe they used AI to generate this image for full transparency. Not a big fan of AI generating art. Just going to put that out there. But for them to capture kind of what they were dreaming, this is what the user Great Psychology posted.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And it kind of, I think, helps capture what they're thinking.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yeah, I think I'll be honest. I think that's the AI part of it.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Listen, I'll address it. I know that is a very divisive topic. And I think my stance is I feel like AI has no business creating things for people. I want it to be mowing my lawn. I want it to be washing my dishes. But let's put the heated topic aside. But just for the sake of like what they're trying to visualize, they're trying to capture this idea of like an endless cycle.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
ceiling you know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of feet with escalators going up and up and up and up and up yeah it just keeps going vertically is what i'm looking at here yeah but this image in particular definitely a little cursed yeah but so those details are very much shared others have also stated that the elevators in their mall move very quickly like once they get into them it's like they drop or rise very abruptly they go in all different directions
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
and they take them to floors where they have this feeling that they shouldn't be and that's where people start to yeah they start to feel out these laws of the land so to speak like this just natural like oh i shouldn't be here feeling and similarly some have stated that they receive warnings against certain elevators or escalators
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And I've heard actually some of the users, like RealisticLaw1226, they posted in the subreddit stating, quote, Ultimately, the comments are all filled with users agreeing, sharing what they've experienced. Bougie Banshee, the Reddit user, also said that they try to avoid these.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
You know, in the past we did the Internet Files 1 and 2, where they're kind of like smaller bytes. R slash Martin was this really interesting city where people were experiencing all sorts of things. And, you know, when you do an online mystery, it's the question of, is it an ARG? Is it made up? Is there something else here?
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
They seem to be... The elevators at least go crazy fast, in their words, in that they tend to go on the escalators because they're more reliable. And so this is where it starts to feel like it's building out lore.
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r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
Yes. And I don't want to get ahead of myself. I think I did put this in the outline somewhere, but it makes sense here. Like some people have messed around with certain stores or escalators or what have you.
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And what's interesting is I always thought that these were completely empty spaces based on what I was seeing, what I was reading, but some people experience just somebody, a person being there. So maybe there's some entities in this arena, but
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
yelling at them telling them not to do a certain thing hey don't mess with that or don't go in there and so there almost seems to be some sort of guard or some sort of person or entity that kind of watches over this place right but they basically get this sense of getting trapped in the elevators and that's a shared idea and it starts to stoke the flames of an arg an alternate reality game
Red Web
r/TheMallWorld | Have You Dreamed of This Endless Mall?
And that's why I'm so fascinated by people that go, yeah, I've had this. I really hope you guys aren't doing that because I've felt this so vividly just on my own before I heard about this. And so that's the little sliver. That's that nugget I'm going for. Like, how are some people feeling this way? Is this an ARG built off something that is unique and is interesting? I don't know.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But I think it's just, again, that language is uncanny. It's a little off. Where it's just saying that bullying has a lot to do with gossip and vice versa. So I do think it is positive intended, but the way it reads feels like subversive. Like it's actually trying to be like, yeah, you should totally gossip. Who cares what it does to other people? This is good for you. Right. Yeah.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's kind of mixed.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's like, what is this site about? Yeah. Exactly, right? So one of the articles I was reading stood out, and maybe that's because 2020 was the year of quarantine, right? But one of the articles starts talking about the idea of gossip as, quote, viral marketing. I think we've all heard of what viral marketing is, if a video goes viral, all of that stuff.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And then they scan it, boom, virus on their phone. It's an unhinged world, and it's only been, what, four and a half years since we started, but this is going back to our roots, and it was so refreshing to hear you say, mm-mm, I don't mess with it, because I feel like I haven't heard that in a minute. Yeah.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But inside that, it then literally starts to use the metaphor of viruses, right? And it says that viruses are the best way to spread ideas, that this is the environment one should foster in order to get a viral idea. And it almost like, again, it's with hindsight, it feels like bad timing, but it's weird, again, that it feels like negative coded. Yeah. I don't know.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Like, of course, the broad message is, oh, yeah, viral marketing. I feel like that should be talked about. But the subtext is you need to create a virus. You must be in a toxic environment to get that virus to spread. And it is kind of like sinister the way it talks about that. Let me see if I can pull it up on the Wayback Machine.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
A little bit. It just felt weird. You must think of a virus as the best gossip marketing program. Viruses are smart. Viruses do not spread by chance. Viruses thrive in groups where people have many casual social connections. Remember Tupperware parties? That's a strange reference. Viruses do not become epidemics overnight. And again...
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. So I don't know. I don't want to lean too hard into it. I'm not trying to like get too heebie-jeebie about it. But I just think that reading it, it definitely has an interesting feel to it. And part of it, I think, could just be clunky writing. It could just be that reading. but it also does have that negative tinge to it.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So whatever the purpose of these articles were, I'll take it at face value. It was about workplace gossip, environmental relationships, how to better position yourself in the workplace and maybe safeguard yourself from gossip. It's kind of what it's all talking about. But all of these articles were written between July 8th and July 9th of 2018.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Because we're back in the saddle of an online mystery, talking about a thing that you can actually go do now. You can get hands-on with it. You can get, what do you say? Tangible. Tangible with it. It's very tangible. It's a little throwback episode, kind of. It really is. It's a throwback episode. We came down here to sub-level 128 to kind of kick around our old roots. It's very dusty down here.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Now, as you kind of pointed out, it does seem a little hollow. There's not a lot of flash to it. It's very basic. I'm sure they took a very simple template and started making these articles. And then after two days, it's almost like they stopped touching it. But there's no comments on any of the posts. They're all uncategorized.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I want you to remember that because of what we're going to talk about next. But there's no categories, there's no tags, as it were. And all of these posts were made just in those two days and written by the same person, whoever the site admin is. And the website doesn't even have ads, so it's not like they were trying to turn this into a business right off the bat.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And some of the images used on the page seem to be stolen from other blog sites such as WikiHow. And so off the rip, my gut check kind of says that this is maybe a teenager beginning their foray into making a blog. Everybody starts somewhere and maybe they're just spun out after, you know, two days of doing it and no web traction.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, but that's not really the crux of the mystery. Yes, it's a strange website. Yes, the writing's strange. But what really took Redditor attention was at the bottom of the page, the bottom of every page, I believe, was a huge list of two-letter prefixes, each followed by five asterisks. So this is going to be a little hard to describe.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I do have a visual of it for you, Fredo, so you can kind of see what I'm talking about as you pour over that visually. Again, we'll post this on social and the YouTube upload task force. This is essentially a comprehensive list of every possible two letter combination, of course, with 26 letters times 26. that leads to 676 of these prefixes, right? Jesus.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So in order, you'll have A, A, star, star, star, star, star, A, B, star, star, star, star, star, A, C, A, D, so on and so forth, all the way down to Z, Z. Does that make sense? Yes. So is the image A2? A2. Yes. So tell us what you're seeing. Jesus. It's kind of a mess. It's a mess. It's also very tiny. It's very tiny. That might be my fault. I opened it up on a 1440p monitor.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
maybe some prefixes in front of it yes yes yeah so it's it's got two letters and then five asterisks and then it repeats that okay yeah yeah that's what it is yeah and the letters are just every possible combination damn and how many said 676. so you'll have a b a c a d all the way through to like c d c e c f yeah all the way through to z x z y z z damn That's a lot. There you go.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Christian posted another image that's a little bit closer in, if you want to see.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
This is at the bottom of the page. Huh. Yeah. And as you can see, they're blue with the underline, which, again, ah, that's a hyperlink. Clickable? Yeah, they're clickable. Clickable.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Where are you starting?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, you click AD and it takes you to a picture of yourself. Alfredo Diaz.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I have some opinions on this, but I'll hold it until the theory section. Because again, this is what really drew people's attention. And if you click on any single one of these, it actually takes you back to the exact same page. It does put the prefix value up in the URL. So if you pick on, for example, DF asterisk, it'll put DF as the prefix.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
We haven't remodeled in a minute. And I think we got to tear these walls down, you know? We got to. I look for the squonks because I'm taking them out.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Then if you scroll down to the bottom, once again, you see all of the 676 possible two-letter combinations. But this time, instead of prefixes changing, all of the prefixes will be locked in at what you clicked. So they'll all say DF, DF, DF, DF. Oh. But in this case, it'll be the, it's called postfix. The last two letters of each of these tags now has all the different combinations. Interesting.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Take a look at the photo that Christian just posted. Yeah. And you'll see what I mean. Oh.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Right, it's like if you pick the prefix properly and then you pick the right suffix or postfix, then you pick the correct middle, does it spell something? If you then click that spelled word, does it do something special? Like that's what people started to throw around.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But unfortunately, this is what really sucks is because even in 2020, when Christian was like actively on that website, it seemed that nothing happened after the post fix. And so people were kind of wondering, well, is it because you don't find the right combo? Do you have to click the correct thing?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Option in the first one, option in the second one, because once you click the post fix, right, it just refreshes the page. Nothing really changes. If you go to the Internet Archive right now and then you can still kind of click these because thank God they've all been archived.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, swamp level, we'll never declassify what level that's on, but this man keeps hunting them down.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But when you click it, you'll still go through the same thing, but it doesn't have any of the after suffix click archived. I hope that makes sense. You click on the prefix, you click on the post fix, and then the website kind of blanks out with an error. There's nothing to be seen. Oh, so it's like, how can it be solved at that point? Right. So that's what's so interesting.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And that's kind of what the mystery ended up being. No one figured out what happened after this. If there was a proper combination to click, and at the time, that's almost where it was left. But then the website started to shift a little bit more. But before we talk about it, I just wanted to say I'm amazed at just how ephemeral this website appears to have been.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
There's essentially no record of it right now beyond a few mystery lovers who have talked about it on Reddit. One of my faves, the Reddit Bureau of Investigation, people that explore some of these online mysteries. And literally, it's only people asking, well, what happened with that? Where is it? Where is it gone? The website was down until I picked it up, right? It's all just gone.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So the internet archive has it. And I don't want to get ahead of myself because there is a Redditor that we're going to quote later on. But even that Redditor has since deleted their account. That happens. That's natural. There's nothing sinister there. Oh, yeah. But it just takes out all the history. Yeah. All the conversation. Yes, it does.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so I felt like this was a really interesting time to re-explore this pretty simple mystery only because it was sometimes we look at the lifespan of a mystery. We look how folklore becomes unknown, becomes mystery, becomes like this thing that permeates culture. Now we get to see almost like the disappearance or death of a mystery that once rattled the Internet. It's really fascinating.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, dude. That is a great point. Because you're totally right. I remember when we were young, again, going back to the idea of don't put your face on there. Don't put your real name on there. It's forever. Dude, I remember that. Uh-huh. The early days. Dude, and we've talked about that. And it was like... Weird and exciting and fun. You know, I talked to a, this is complete non sequitur.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I talked to a friend recently who's big into tech and he's doing a lot of really cool stuff right now. But, um, as I was talking to him, I was like, man, I was nostalgic for the nineties for being a kid. I was nostalgic for the early two thousands for the internet. Yeah. There was something Wild West about it. It was ugly, but it was filled with passion and interest.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I don't want to say that it's sterile now. We've talked about dead internet theory, but it's definitely different. It's almost like it grew up and put on a suit. Yeah, I can see that for sure.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
What is this? The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? We don't know if squonks are invisible because they aren't seen until they are seen.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. It was just, yeah, keep everything safeguarded. But it is interesting to see just how... almost readily things can disappear. Now, of course, I'm hearing my tech boys in the background saying, well, it's still forever because there are servers that hoard all this information and data somewhere that we can't access it.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So listen, if you tweet something and you decide to untweet it, it's forever. You might not be able to access it, but someone can.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So it's, it's stuff like that. Yes. The internet is technically for forever, but this is an amazing example to your point where, but sometimes it's not, or sometimes at least public facing it's super not. And it's like, I wouldn't be surprised if five years from now, people are going, was that a Mandela effect? Did that ever exist?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
This episode is to say, yes, it existed. Christian was there clicking on the active website and, ah, this is so cool to explore it now because I felt it just slipping away. Right. Right.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Absolutely. And I feel like early, early Red Web days, we were definitely like put a sandbox on your computer. So if you explore these websites, it couldn't bust out of it and tap into your actual system or not. You know, who knows? Calling phone numbers with our real number. Who knows?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But yeah, man, I mean, even if nothing else, just being nostalgic for the early Internet mysteries we've explored because like I want to explore so many and there still are some out there, but many of them. And it's kind of like the reason why we didn't explore this one. It's relatively shallow. There's not a lot of like depth to it.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I felt like if we covered it in the early days, it would have just fallen flat and been like, ah, all right. But now it's almost like it might still fall flat as a mystery, but now it's kind of like seeing the evolution. What comes after mystery sometimes is not fame and just like permeating society. Sometimes it's just disappearing gently.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. So come claim your robe. It's definitely not a trap. He's not like magnifying glasses on ready for you.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, yes, absolutely. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by EveryPlate. Have you been visiting the takeout apps more than you've been going to the gym? Well, hey, there's no judgment here. I've been known to do that a few times myself. Well, this is where EveryPlate steps in to help you feel good about what you're eating and also what you're spending on food and not blowing the budget.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's so much more healthy and so much more budget-friendly. I really enjoy it, and I haven't had a bad recipe from them yet. They're so tasty. Start with 50% off your first box with code REDWEB50, REDWEB50, at everyplate.com slash podcast. Every plate offer valid with auto-renewing subscription. 50% off Red Web 50.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So speaking of the Wayback Machine, if we look at April 3rd, 2019, this is the first occurrence of Face Famous no longer going to the website we've been talking about. Instead, it redirects to a different website.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So again, up until this point, it's been a self-contained website at facefamous.org, hosted the articles we talked about, but now, or somewhere between March 13th and April 3rd, it's hard to tell looking back, the website now redirects to a different website called foodpets.org. It's another site filled with articles, but this time it's all about pet care. And we do have a screenshot of that.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I think that this website and the next one we're going to talk about are both active. As always, the caveat that Fredo gave, tread lightly, tread at your own risk, but I feel like they're pretty simple.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Like a mousetrap, but instead a bunch of TVs and cameras spring out and boom, you're an instant puddle. There's eyes everywhere. You're seen. Yeah. Well, this episode, as you said, is definitely a throwback. I want to say that this outline is a time capsule, not only of this mystery, as you'll come to find out, but also of Red Web.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, absolutely. It just seems like another informational site. Again, if pictures are being stolen from WikiHow, maybe that's what they're doing. They're just trying to make their own WikiHow. But what was interesting about these articles is while you can search the article text and you won't get any other results, it does seem like it's unique text.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
A lot of people were pointing out that it feels like it was AI generated. And this is not 2025 me saying this, this is again, 2020, like Christian writing this down and saying, it kind of feels like it's AI generated. That's the feel that this language gives off. And it's so strange because even just in these short four or five years, AI has become so much more prevalent.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Large language models, predictive text, art for God's sake, like all of this stuff has come crashing onto the scene. I give no opinions here because that's not the point, but it does feel like early versions of ChatGPT in some way. So it's like uncanny language. Yeah, I could see that. What's also interesting is that
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Throughout, and I mentioned this in one of the articles I read before on Face Famous, but throughout all of these articles, you'll have sudden ellipses, right? The dot, dot, dot, and they'll appear mid-sentence. And then you'll just have a long pause or a long break in the paragraph before it then continues, which is another thing that people pointed out.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They thought it was odd, thought it was interesting. But I will read an example of one of the articles from this website. I'm cutting out some of it, but just so you can see how this ellipsis plays out. Quote, dogs are loved because of their companionship. Their cuddliness and cuteness is also a factor. And a great part of their charm is the luscious coat.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
This is why every owner should learn how to care for it. But how do you exactly take care of a dog coat? Dog coat tips regular bathing is needed. So make sure that you dot, dot, dot, huge gap, have the right set of tools for grooming. It's almost ominous the way, have the right set of tools. Yeah, this definitely seems AI generated. It's all just off. It's just off.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And it's like, again, if it's early AI, maybe they relinquished an early AI onto the scene to see what would happen. But dog coat being capitalized, sentences starting with and and but, not typically the way you would write, but kind of the way you would speak. Yeah. But dog coat tips regular was all capitalized. So strange, right? Just more strange language. It's very strange.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It doesn't really make sense. So this is where Christian then looked a little closer. Once again, going to the Whois to look up what's going on with this website and foodpets.org was registered on May 27th, 2018. And that would be, I think just two months prior to facefamous.org with its last update being June 5th, 2020, which is just almost exactly a month before Face Famous' most recent change.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
This outline was initially put together back in 2020, the early days of Red Web, and the research and the investigation was actually done during a phase when Christian, our producer who's online right now with us, was the one writing these outlines.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So there's a few connections here. Obviously one website points to another. So the activity being similar, not too startling, but while it was registered in 2018, the articles on the site do in fact go back earlier than that. They go back to 2015. So this website was also registered through GoDaddy, coincidentally on a server with the same location as Face Famous' which was in Amsterdam.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It was also to a registrant from Italy and out of curiosity, I wanted to see like, okay, are we connecting dots? Are we piecing this together? Because obviously one website points to another. So obviously there's going to be some sort of tangible relationship. But I also was just curious about GoDaddy. I used to hear commercials all the time. Yeah.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And they used to be a Super Bowl commercial champion, right? Yeah. But as of I think it was 2023, maybe last year, They were like the fifth largest domain registrar and they own over 82 million domains. Oh my God. Yeah. So it's not like, you know, it's weird that they have the same registrar, but it is something to think about.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So it was like the business essentially just scooping up domain names and then... Go buy it? Kind of. I mean, it's kind of like any of those domain registrars. They basically make it easy because early Internet and I'm speaking completely out of thin air here. I'm not well versed on this, but early Internet, it wasn't so easy, like a turnkey solution to just getting a domain name.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so they do all the work of like registering it for you. But otherwise, yes, they kind of park the names. You can kind of turn that on and now you own the domain. But now they also have web hosting services, server services, website building tools.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I'm assuming because of the registrar that we use for redwebpod.com, I assume that they also must have some of those services themselves just to stay kind of more viable. But yeah, that's kind of what they do. Yeah. I do.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I'm curious, actually, while I read ahead, Christian, if there's any way to figure out how domains were grabbed in the early days, like was it a really technical process or was it similarly easy and GoDaddy and other domain registrars just kind of swooped in? Yeah. Because I remember people used to just park websites and then like pets.com and then try to sell them or whatever.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, dude. I'm still sitting on butts.com. Nobody's wanted it. That would be good. Okay, Task Force 4. While he looks that up, I'm going. I'm going to butts.com. This could go real south real quick.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Don't go. It's taken.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Well, there was Usenet, right? We've talked about some of that early internet. But I think before the World Wide Web, those URLs we're talking about, yeah, they were like those. I think they're technically similar, like domain names or whatever, but not kind of the dot coms I'm referring to. Yeah. Like, did you have to set up some sort of like, did you have to code something? Yeah, right.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Maybe Task Force can let us know because they're so tech savvy and buff minded. Yeah.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. Well, I just imagine now that for redwebpod.com, we have some big daddy out there chiseling stone to get like, I got to get your domain name out of here. Some laborious effort. I'm like, thanks, daddy. Okay, well, this is where I want to talk about the Reddit user that I hinted at before.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I remember every single detail. If you have any questions, let me know, he says.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Reddit user Bingus underscore Bastardo said that when they posted about facefamous.org on Reddit Bureau of Investigation, which is a subreddit, again, big fan, shouted them out many times in the past, when they posted about it, it seems that almost in response to that, this is when the forwarding started to happen. So they posted about facefamous.org,
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And then it seemingly seems like a few days later, they started to forward to foodpets.org. It's hard to tell, right? This is where I love internet mysteries. I love when they react to people posting about it. When they get some attention, they go, oh, don't look here. Right? Very Lake City quiet pills, right? Yep. Yeah. Because it's like, I want it to myself.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Photographic memory. Your memory is actually pretty good, though, I will say.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
you found us now we gotta shift oh man that episode is still gnarly in my mind the way things changed when they started getting attention they went cryptic and then they went offline yeah but what stinks is this reddit user has since deleted their account but at the time we did look at it and we were trying to corroborate their posting history but we couldn't find anything thankfully christian put that in the notes because i mean maybe i should way back machine this person's reddit account but
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Otherwise it's, it's hard to find the post that they're talking about. Right? So it seems like they had two Reddit accounts and Bingus is the one saying I posted about face famous and then they changed the website. Well, Bingus at the time never had anything posted about the website. So we're assuming a second count is in play, but now it's deleted.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's immense, okay? But here's the thing, you know, we, we haven't hit the one 28 button in a while. So now we're down here, we're kicking it. We're seeing a lot of memories, a couple of puddles now, a lot of dust, but yeah, you printed this outline, set it on the research desk and then it just left it there. So now we have this perfect rectangle of dust free desk and, uh,
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so we'll never be able to deeply search if there is that second account. So it's, it's uncorroborated is all I'm saying.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
A little twisted. Let me know if that kind of lost you.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Okay. Man, we're back into the thick of it. These internet mysteries get twisty turny. I know, but they're good though.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They're very juicy. Yeah, juicy. So according to other Reddit users, Food Pets was at one point a phone lookup service. While this adds more twists to this breadcrumb trail that we're developing, we've only seen versions with the pet care articles. even less here in 2025. So again, I'm quoting Christian here.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
In 2020, we didn't really see any of this phone lookup service, and Wayback Machine isn't showing any of it either. So again, more uncorroborated Reddit accounts. Now, what's interesting is that the most recent Wayback Machine image of this website saves the redirect to foodpets.org, though this time, instead of the normal prefix of www, it had the subdomain www25.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so I wanted to look up what this was, why, why the straight, I've never seen this before, but there's all sorts of like WW3, WW5, all that stuff. And this prefix is typically used instead of WWW when the domain is being parked, redirected, or is up for sale.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So it could just be that, you know, these websites came online, pointed to one another, and then whoever was behind it kind of disappeared and said, let's just resale or whatever. Yeah. So from this point, the redirect fails and we can no longer see what the page looks like.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Now, kind of once again, looking back at 2020, the site was redirecting once again in late 2020, not to foodpets.org, but this time it would instead send you to a filled out Google search. And what you would see in the search bar was all caps. Who called you? Question mark. Find phone numbers. And then it would designate the search to search the site enigmatario.com.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So if you use Google and you want to search a specific site, you just say site colon website. So that's what it said. And obviously that would give you one very specific Google result. But enigmatario is interesting because it's Latin for enigmatic, which of course means mysterious, but it's also Greek for riddle.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Like people were saying that it's also a place slash thing with riddles, potentially a cipher. And so this is only adding fuel to this mysterious fire. They're going, okay, is there something for Face Famous? Now it's pointing to this new weird website. Is this still the original owner or is this someone else?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
no it's not the original owner it like left the owner's hands and then it just shifted around yeah it's totally possible we do actually have i'm getting ahead of myself but if you want to pull it up we do have an image of what enigmatario.com looks like this website is also live if you want to go check it out i would look at it through the wayback machine just a little safer but it's also a time capsule
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Anyway, grab your allergy medicine because it's going to be a dusty one. But since the time of researching this and talking about it, the website has disappeared, right? So when you research this, the website was still up in its original mysterious form, and the website's gone away.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. They're like, no, my blog now. No, my blog now.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I just don't know how prolific AI was at that time. You know, was it was it consumer grade yet? I don't know.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They're smart enough. Their brain is rippling with the veins and the muscles. They're the leader from the movie.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
You could probably put some Cheerios in there and hold them and just snack at your leisure. What a vision. The leader just holding some snacks up in there. What a rough direction they went with that. It's still throwing me. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk about numbers, okay?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Visit betterhelp.com slash redweb to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash redweb. But here's the thing, of course, when you go to facefamous.org at this point in time, late 2020, it sends you to the, who called you? Find phone numbers, and then that site. And so of course, people click on that site. This is what they see.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They see the website that you just looked at. Once again, just another collection of random articles, primarily this time about various health concerns and tips. For example, if you don't want to lose your memory, take care of your teeth. That's one of the articles. And in a recent post, as you kind of pointed out, this was from June 5th, 2020, a very familiar date.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But as we kind of went back to this research outline to bolster it, add new information, kind of strengthen it as you do, everything seems to be gone. So it's almost like looking at this is going to stand as a time capsule to the mystery. In fact, even the Internet Archive, as I was researching this, was struggling to show me what the website once looked like.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
The title is Acne Scars, the Imprint of Adolescence. Now this date's interesting because the first post on this website is the same day as the last update on foodpets.org. So I think it's again stitching the owner together. So we know at least at one point in time, the ownership was transcending each of these websites.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And then somewhere after 2020, I feel like that's when the ownership is up for question. Okay. Now, what's really interesting about this particular website is it gets off topic pretty quickly. So you can explore it now if you'd like, but as you scroll down, it moves away from health tips and acne discussions to politics and world news.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Other article examples include mental health disorders in children, dental tips, allergy information, and various then articles about Middle Eastern politics. Some have reported that various links on this website show a broken phone lookup similar to what is described for food pets. So now this is where one of the theories will start to spark and Kindle, right?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So now people are like, okay, this is what I'm seeing at face value. This is what the website is telling us it is. But the second website now pointing to this one is saying, find the phone numbers. And some of the links seem to point to a broken phone lookup. So, again, Redditors at this time are going, is there something behind the scenes here?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Is there a hidden link to click that can get me a phone number that I can call? Right. We'll talk about ARGs. That's always on the mind with these Internet mysteries. But that's what's really getting people intrigued.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Right. And what's weird, too, is that the names, except for food pets, the names don't have anything to do with the topic. And so if you're going to make a website like Face Famous or Enigmatario, I feel like either that's your brand name and you put all these genres of discussion under it and you categorize it where they don't have any categorization whatsoever.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But instead, what's happening is that they're making various websites. It's almost like, and I'm, again, kind of teasing one of the theories I have in a second here, but it almost feels like early... It's not early internet, but it's like early attempts at SEO, search engine optimization. Like you're just throwing things out there to get search results, to get traffic, to then build a website.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But again, though, we haven't really seen ads. No ads, no products to sell.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But honestly, though, this is stuff I was doing 10 years prior. This is stuff I would do in high school or college is start up a website. You remember texts from last night? It was like an old website, very similar to what a single subreddit would do.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It is there, so you can go check it out on the Internet Archive now if it's
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But it's like non sequitur, out of context texts that people would send into this website and they would post it and it would just be funny. It would just be it would give you a window into what crazy party somebody had the previous night or what they got up to or what happened. And, you know, throughout the teens here in the 21st century, a lot of websites popped up like that.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And a few of them went absolute gangbusters viral. And so, yeah, they would pour in the AdSense money until Reddit and other conglomerate, not conglomerate, but like amalgamation websites. Like Reddit is great because it's just all those communities in one place. Kind of like, what was it, Dig? Oh, yeah, Dig. Yeah. Yeah.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
up but this episode is going to serve two goals to discuss and theorize the purpose of this mysterious website of course but two to document the existence of facefamous.org its changes and its complete disappearance from the web why it disappeared is that part of the mystery or is it part of the mundanity if that's a word to this mystery we'll we'll explore all of that
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
so i don't know i can kind of see these websites just kind of doing that like let's see if i can get attention on my food pets brand i don't you know i don't know yeah but again like we're not seeing links to things that's that's very true i'll be honest though if i was starting a new podcast right now i'd probably just put it out there no ads to build an audience until it's ready to take that next mature step that i take with the audience you know true as opposed to trying to put ads on it immediately and really creating friction yeah that's a solid point
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I don't know. But that's just me. Yeah. Because like what you're pointing out is the same as what others have pointed out. It was definitely interesting to a lot of people that there were no products. There was no ads. The purpose became very, I don't know, mysterious.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, exactly. And I'm glad you brought that up because Christian looked into it at the time. Enigmatario.com was registered on November 13th, 2019. So like a year and a half after the other ones. And it hasn't been updated since its initial launch, despite these posts happening kind of later on. It was registered through DNC Holdings.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It was a tech company, maybe still is, based out of Louisiana. Now what's interesting there is that according to Better Business Bureau, they have been in business for 13 years, but according to their own website, they've been in business for 24 years. A little snafu there. It could be just a small typo.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But while most recently registered in 2019, it has changed IP and name servers multiple times over the last 15 years. And the registrant is from Mexico with a redacted name. But the organization is listed as a man named Babar Butt.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So this, the only result, right, when you search Babar Butt, right, and we're doing everything we can to kind of like find any answers, are articles for a Pakistani political leader who was murdered back in 2017. And then there's other articles, of course, too, about a Pakistani man in the United States convicted of fraud. So suffice to say that this might be a relatively common name.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
There's possible connections to the fact that Enigmatario.com did have a lot of Middle Eastern focused politics. So... Otherwise, it just kind of goes cold. There's not much else to say. The website's still up here in 2025, but that's where the trail runs cold. And and since then, nothing else has further developed and everything else is kind of evaporated. Damn.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Absolutely. Now, before we dive into the theories, and man, I thought this was going to be a shorter one, to be totally honest. Yeah, we always think that. We always think that. That's the meme here. But here's what's interesting, and I'll try to truncate this quite a bit, because the question remained, at least in 2020... Were there other websites like Face Famous, right?
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Of course, we found out about Food Pets. Of course, we're talking about Enigmatario. But it does seem that it's connected to several other websites. I have not checked these out, so please proceed with caution if you do. But you have... Jewelslove.net, nightparty.info, nightparty.online, goodflavors.net, nightlov.com, lovetravels.org, all these different websites.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Now, three of them, Jewels, nightparty, and lovetravels.org, are all very similar with that kind of empty WordPress feel, right? There's blogs, there's articles written by the site admin with no name. They're all uncategorized, no comments seen. And what's interesting is that JewelsLove.net was registered December 27th, 2017 through a different registrar, but still pointing to Italy.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It had articles consistently written up until May of 2020 and dating back to May of 2012. Oh, wow. And all of the articles were written by the admin. Then you have nightparty.info that was registered July 2nd, 2018. Also through GoDaddy, also pointing to Italy. It's the same day that Face Famous was registered. Has five articles. They vary slightly.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But before we do, of course, some business at hand. We're talking about Task Force. What is that? Well, it's a place where you can join us in our subterranean bunker. It's where we do all of our research on this. We have hundreds of floors underneath, reconstructing, deconstructing, but we have a lot of members. And if you'd like to join, you get a badge at redwebpod.com.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They talk about wedding parties, wedding DJs, pool lighting, something that I could honestly use right now as we're doing the final touches on our wedding planning right now. But all this is to say, right, lovetravels.org, that was registered mid-2019, also GoDaddy, also Italy. The main thing I think that this is important to point out is that, yes, these websites are strange. They're weird.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
They're early 2000s vibes. Yeah, they are. They point to things. They have cryptic elements to them. But now I'm stepping into the theories. I think, and I already kind of explained it. I I feel like these are just failed website launches.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I feel like it is a serial website entrepreneur who is developing a bunch of different ideas, cobbling up the URLs that he can, putting out articles that are kind of half thought, just word vomit just to get some material started.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Maybe some traffic, yeah. But it seems like none of them really took off. And maybe they got offended when Reddit started going, what's this weird website? And he goes, hey, I worked hard on that. And so he changed it, you know? Yeah, that's true.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, but I don't know. This could explain maybe the strange names behind it because it is tough to get a URL these days that is super, super clean and minimal. But I still go back to those prefixes and those post fixes. What were those tags at the bottom of the face famous, you know?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yes. It felt like, you're right, like a path. Like, I click on this one and I enter phase two. Oh, clicked on the wrong one. Got to start over. Right. It felt like a puzzle. And that's where a lot of people landed. They thought, okay, These are weird websites, and it's just filler text, because sometimes ARG just has filler text to create an ambiance, to create that environment.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so under the guise of an ARG, people were like, well, maybe that's what it is. Let's keep looking. Let's keep poking. But if it was an ARG, it certainly dropped the ball or was no longer maintained. Yeah. Nobody was able to progress. Nothing new came around. Nothing garnered intrigue.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And so that is a totally viable and honestly very believable angle is that this was a puzzle or an ARG that only just begun. And then something happened to the author. Maybe it was an Italian man and they just...
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Absolutely. It's totally possible. And, and what comes to mind too, is again, that SEO, like if you're trying to put out every possible combination of letters, and when you click those, you get every possible combination of the end of a word. Like maybe that was just a way to brute force, have every known seven letter word on your website. And so maybe that would help with search traffic.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
You got members like Vincent404 from the Task Force. You got Werewings from the Elite Team. You got Edith Urbina, part of the buff scientists, minds rippling like the leader from Brave New World. Now we got an image for it.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Right. True. But that kind of gives me like I said, I was doing similar stuff in my in my coding classes in high school. And so it does kind of make me think, is there something much more mundane here beyond just failed website launches? Was this coding exercises? Were these school projects or maybe even simply spam from somebody who was just practicing website development?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Like maybe this person now works at a high profile. Maybe they work at GoDaddy, you know, and they're just building out websites for you. Yeah. But there were some other theories at the time. Of course, you have the idea that there was something nefarious going on.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Were these websites networking once again together to build some sort of pathway to either like the articles being the front, but all the tags and the Google search and the phone lookup were ways for people that knew how to use the website to actually do something else, right? So it has this very nice facade like, oh, this is just a helpful website. Let me go on my business.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But actually, if you click, The wall opens up and it's Diagon Alley and there's wizards blasting things around. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But except it's nefarious, right? Maybe there's some sort of black market deal happening. Who knows? That's fun to think about, but there's not much else to point to. to say. And then of course, a more mundane one, domain hoarding.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's possible that even in 2018, that you can park a website that might be a compelling name in the future. This has happened for video games. It's happened for movies where people buy whatever.com. And then sometime 10 years on, someone's like, I really need whatever.com because my movie whatever's coming out. And so you're like, okay, 50 grand or, you know, whatever. I don't know.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
You Dr. Evil them.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. I mean, Face Famous could be an interesting name for like, I don't know, a social media platform. But Food Pets is like, it's just awkward. So they're definitely like the B tier superhero for domain hoarding.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the supernatural. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing about this mystery for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. I mean, I do think there's something cool about the idea of like a Greek website, Enigmatario. If that just means Enigma to them, then that's like grabbing Enigma.com or Mystery.com. That is kind of cool.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Okay, okay. How about the leader from the comics?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And could be valuable. But the last theory I think is super, super intriguing. And we did a whole episode on this topic, the idea of dead internet theory. And this suggests, right, we talked a little bit about AI. We didn't talk about bots. I mean, they're not necessarily the same. Bots can be hard-coded to go do very specific tasks.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And that theory, right, started as a meme, but in recent years has become a lot more prevalent on the mind. And that says that a majority of the internet, whether it be activity, traffic, content that's generated, all comes from bot activity and AI.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
There we go. There we go. A little smoother of the temple. But still just a little vascular. And then, of course, our squonks that Fredo is trying to hunt down, our monthly shoutouts, Andy Schrock, B. Wick, and Gavin Day, just to name a few. And there's a lot going on with your support. Last week, we piloted the video version of this podcast.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And over the years, statistically, we've actually gotten really, really close to it. I forget actually what the split was. We did talk about that, you know, at the turn of becoming indie, the dead internet theory. And in that we were forecasting based on statistics that we're about to hit that 50% threshold where a majority becomes bots or AI, which is wild.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I honestly, I kind of want to get offline more than be on it anymore. And for various reasons, but like maybe that's part of it. I see a generation in the near future that goes, wow, you went online.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Absolutely, yeah. And listen, algorithms are a double-edged sword. They can help people blow up overnight with their amazing creativity and storytelling. They can find you an audience like that, right? But at the same time, I fell out of love with that almost immediately because I always saw on YouTube, at least, right? I subscribe to people like a magazine.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I want that delivered in my inbox monthly, you know? That's what I want to read. And when it goes full algorithm, you start to fade that out and it goes to the background. I have to go manually find those folks again. Even though I've been subscribed for years, that felt weird to me. But that's the world I grew up in.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Some people grow up in the world where it's just constantly delivered to you and it watches what you watch and figures you out. And there's a value to that 100%. But It's just like not the way I would, I don't know, want it to be handled. That's just me. That's just me. I completely agree. But with the idea of dead internet theory, right?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It kind of goes on to say that maybe these websites were purely built by AI and maybe it was an early version of AI. And again, these theories come from 2020, which is pretty cool because it ended up being pretty prophetic. But the wrinkle here is, I did take some of these articles and put them into, there are websites that can check for AI writing and they're not 100% accurate.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And they all have, some can say it's 100% AI and some will say it's 2% AI, right? With the same text.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But I tried it in like five or six different checkers. And they all came up as pretty much 100% human. And so that would be a weird thing for early AI to fool these modern AI writing detectors. So I do think someone wrote these. I don't know if it's going to be dead internet, but I do love the idea that that came around on this one. But that is kind of it. Not much else to say as far as theories.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I feel like the story was getting so titillating and then it disappeared. I know.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
If you want to go check that out, that will be up only for Patreon. And, of course, we're in the midst of March Mystery Madness, where you can come in, Vote for free. There's a lot of free things to do with that. Vote on your favorite mysteries. We're doing kind of a bracket tournament NCAA style.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I read the other day that there are millions of YouTube videos just hanging out with zero views. Damn. And it really, yeah. And it just really, because there's countless. At this point, I don't even know what the stat is anymore. It's been years since I knew the actual stat. How many hours of content go up every minute? Oh, yeah.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And it's like three, maybe four or five digits now. I really don't know. Um, but all that is to say is again, dead internet or not, I don't know, but it, all that is to say is maybe this was just as exciting as it could have been. Just one of those things where someone puts some effort in and we, we criticize their writing. And then they said, you know what? I give up.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. You never know. Right. Every website that's popped off started somewhere. I love the idea that this could have been an ARG. I really wish that this was true, but we'll never know.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It feels very much like a failed website launch, but I think with that, you still have the questions of the strange names, the strange writing style, but specifically those prefixes and those suffixes and then that strange Google search page that said, who called you? Find phone numbers. Right. And that's it. I get we started to crack into something. I know. And then it went away.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. Man, I don't know what to do with this website now. I want to respect the mystery. I just don't know what to do with it. Cause like now, now I feel like there's a little pressure here. If I started my own ARG, I'll never live up to the hype. You know, I don't want to monetize it.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I don't want to turn this thing into some sort of like, I don't know, money vessel, but I also like, I just don't know what to do with it. And it was fun to do a little prank on you, but But beyond that, like some, someone's going to, what happened to facefamous.org? They're going to go there and be like, well, who's Alfredo? Like, I almost feel like it should just. Well, at least in the red web.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And each week we're going to do a quick blog, kind of dissecting your comments, your picks and everything. And then we're going to come down to the final four and we're going to figure out what out of these maybe 64 ish mysteries is task force favorite topic. It's going to be a lot of fun. Oh yeah. But with that, Let me take you all the way back to July 2nd, 2018.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. Yeah. It just says red web and people are like, what is that? I just feel like maybe it should just be this, this.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
podcast episode that dissects what it once was and so it can stand yeah that's you know that's a great default yeah like that way you like okay this is what was once here and and that's all we know and it's all we can know because it's all gone now period you know yeah maybe that's what i'll do damn yeah Well, Task Force, this was a wild one. This was a twisty tourney.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But Fredo, I'm very curious on your final thoughts here. I feel like we kind of aired it all out, but I'm also curious on your final thoughts on just kind of jumping back into the deep end of an internet mystery. I think it's fun.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Right. Yeah, no, I'm totally with you. I agree that the internet is still the next frontier. What do they say in Star Trek? They say the internet, the final frontier is, And I feel like for mysteries, whether it be true crime or just unsolved stuff that is super intriguing, I do feel like we're still in the early stages of the internet opening up to be that new vessel. Right.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And we're going to see new mysteries come and go. We're going to kind of watch it in real time. But it's a really fascinating place for not only, like you said, new tools and developments to study past crimes and try to figure things out from the past, but also it's a new platform to see... whether it be crimes or just mysteries happening now.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Again, I always point back to Lake City Quiet Pills, but you also have websites like Mortis and Captain Coochie's Key Lime Pies. That was another strange one. Markovian Parallax Denigrate. You know, all sorts of, we've done a lot of internet mysteries, some small, some big ones. But yeah, lots of internet-based mysteries.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Oh, right, Erratus, the word that you can't Google because if you Google it, people started disappearing from the internet as soon as they would talk about it. Oh, that was really cool. But like, I love the internet mysteries because regardless of how few and far between they are, I love how interactive they are. Right. And even if they are just an ARG, it's cool.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Like that's that early Blair Witch marketing thing. Yeah. That was just like so cool. I mean, even Cloverfield did it, but yeah. With that, we come to a close on facefamous.org task force. Let us know if there's anything more clever or more intriguing we can do with Face Famous out of respect to the mystery that once was.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Facefamous.org was registered on this date through the domain registrar known as GoDaddy. Now, according to a Whois lookup, the registrant was from Turin, Italy. Now, this is simply a way to identify the owner of a domain name, a website, along with usually their contact information.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But with that said, Fredo, I'll see you right back here next Monday for yet another mystery.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
But with that said, as I was kind of digging into this, this was actually the year that the EU's General Data Protection Regulation went into effect. You might have heard it as GDPR. It was one of Europe's privacy policies, a blanket thing that went into effect on May 2018. And because of this, registrars had to redact most personal information such as names, emails, addresses.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So it is possible, just as a caveat here at the top, that the location of the site's owner may be different. Some of this information could be hidden. There is definitely ways now to hide the IP ownership
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. I mean, man, this was only seven years ago, but it still somehow feels like old-ish internet. But yeah, in the wild west of the internet, the early 2000s, maybe turn of the century, if you had a domain name that you were parking or whatever, yeah, people could just go to a Whois and be like, I know exactly who you are. It's like a license plate. You can figure it all out. Right.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And that's kind of weird. So as the internet got normalized and everyone had an online presence, you know, we had killed the idea of don't put your name online. Now everyone's putting their face all over the place. Privacy came to play, which I do think that there's a need for that, right? Oh, 100%. So the last known official update to the site was on July 4th, 2020.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
There have been updates and IP changes since then, I do want to say. We just don't know if these were the original creators who left, if somebody else picked up the URL, what have you. In fact, before we dive in, it is safe, I've checked it in a... What do they call it when it's removed from the internet? It's like an island computer.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's actually built in a Faraday cage with one small strand of internet cable that then plugs it in. I checked it on that, so I know it's safe. Oh, okay. But you take your business computer, Fredo, and you go ahead and type in facefamous.org for me. Yeah! Yeah, I'm doing it right now. Oh, it's called an air-gapped computer, by the way. Air-gapped? Yeah, it's air-gapped.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It's got a buffer of air around it. Interesting. No, but seriously, though, it is safe. Please go check out facefamous.org. I want to hear your thoughts as we dive in.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Listen, I could have buried the lead on this. I could have gotten through the entire mystery. I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait. So as we were looking at this, Jillian pointed out, because we're talking about registrars, we're talking about the original owner coming and going, maybe staying around, whatever. It has transferred ownership several times.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And I know that for a fact because I now own this website for at least the next year. Wait, what?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
In 2018, a strange website appeared online, seemingly mundane at first. Over time, it began forwarding to other bizarre sites. Online, rumors began to spread about its purpose, but both the website and the discussions surrounding it have since vanished. Today, we discuss the mysterious website known as FaceFamous.org. This is Red Web.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
We own a mystery. And I'm not kidding. This is still a mystery, and we're going to talk about it. I thought that this would be such a fun surprise. And wouldn't you know it? I can post the receipt. It was genuinely, for the next year, $6.66. Wow. Oh, my God. What a great business expense.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
This is HTML code. I typed this out just to speak to you like Neo in the Matrix. If you look at the title on the tab, it says Face Famous has you.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
rules that rules all it was all it was initially was wake up alfredo and then i then i wanted to go how can i make him freak out oh i see that you're recording red web yes and then it then it then the rest is just kind of i don't know filler so it was like oh you think there's something mysterious about this website is that what you're talking about you talk about me well you also you also wrote there's something mysterious about this website i thought you're talking about the website like red web for some reason oh
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I just wanted to be like, how meta can I get?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. That is so cool. Awesome?
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
We own a piece of a mystery. Listen, and this, if nothing else, is out of respect to what this mystery was. We'll get into all of it, but I don't know if I'm going to keep this. I don't know if I'm going to put up a mirror of what the website once was. Maybe I should. Try to reconstruct what it was just so it can live for people to look at it again. But confirm now, you heard it here, Task Force.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
It is owned by us. It is not owned by the original owner. I know it went through a couple of hands, potentially, in theory, as people were tracking it. They didn't know if it was still with them or not. So I'm here to go ahead and say, nope, it's not with them. I'm not going to try to milk this mystery for anything else. But it is, again, time capsuled now. But yeah, so there have been updates.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
There have been IP changes. The website's gone down and it's forwarded to other places. It's taken some changes since 2020. But when it was first created, it showed that it was a WordPress page filled with articles about behavior in the workplace. And so that's where I have the first screenshot of it for you, Fredo.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
So these screenshots are available by way of the Internet Archive, which is an amazing place. Basically archives the internet for free, but you can look at the Wayback Machine and explore this website a little bit. That's wild. Yeah.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah. Just like a standard website. Nothing stands out too much. You know, it's got recent posts to the right side. It's, it's very much of a 2010s Tumblr WordPress blog type. Even that doesn't even have the flash.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Yeah, absolutely. So if you don't know, WordPress was known for being a blogging platform and it helps with website creation. I'm sure they're still around kicking it, but they were a huge name in the game at that time. Now you're looking at the most recent article. It's called, as you said, dealing with negativity in business. And a lot of these articles are like this.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Out the gate, be careful. Yeah, these webs, some of them that we're going to talk about are still up and around kicking. I'm not saying that they're going to do anything, but you're totally right. You got pop-ups that happen. You got malware that forces its way in. There's QR codes now that show up in people's mailbox and they go, I don't know what this is.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
I'm going to read you a blurb of it just so you can get a sense of what the language on this website looks and feels like, because we'll talk about it. So here's the first article, like a snippet. In the network marketing business, you must learn to deal with all types of personality types inside and outside of your business. At the beginning, this can be extremely challenging.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
dot dot dot you feel a natural shock against the personalities that do not favor and resist slash feed the conflict etc eventually you begin to enjoy the challenge of reaching these offensive personalities or you take a step back and realize that some people simply cannot be helped until they are truly prepared and you should not put any energy into those people
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And it kind of goes on like this, but as you can kind of see, I read it verbatim. It has some clunky language to it. Yeah. But when scrolling down, I'm curious if you pick up a trend. I want to hear your gut check here. So I'm not going to read any more of the articles, but I will give you a handful of the titles of these articles. So as you scroll down, you'll see how to stop a rumor.
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FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
Do not let your reputation suffer. The next one, gossip can cause big losses to companies. How to deal with insecurity in relationships. How to treat difficult people with pleasure. Use of gossip for your professional advantage. Gossip plays an important role in bullying in the workplace. Oh, I mean, it all seems like good and positive. I feel like it does.
Red Web
FaceFamous.org | The Strangest Internet Mystery That Suddenly Disappeared
And maybe I'm reading between these lines, but it talks about how gossip is bad and like leads to losses in the company. But then it starts to say, but you should use it for your personal advantage. But then it starts to say, yeah, it plays an important role in bullying, which makes it sound like bullying is an important thing you should do in a company.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
In a cold December in 1946, a Bennington College student embarked on an afternoon hike in Vermont, but never returned. After an extensive search for the 18-year-old, the case ultimately ran cold. Today, we discuss the disappearance of Paula Jean Weldon. This is Red Web.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So ironically, coincidentally, the last person she sees and talks to that we know of alive is a watchman. So we immediately have the police able to investigate a specific area.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
curious about these missing persons cases is because it feels like it's just right there like right at your fingertips I agree but out of reach what would be your top three oh god moments to go back to yeah I guess like overall like what would they be an overarching genre wise if you could genre them the top three Okay, it would be like huge historical moments.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's a little dark. Maybe she lost her footing. Maybe she just got turned around. It is an interesting area. And there's some confusion, which is why I wanted to make this map. And again, for those listening, I'll try to paint a vivid picture when we get to it.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But there are two trails, and this is where I'm not sure if reports or if sources have things confused, if Weldon had things confused, et cetera, but we'll dive in.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So, now the university is aware of this, local investigators are now aware of this, and from here, an extensive search ensues for Weldon, and Bennington College even closed for a couple of days so that students and staff could aid in the search efforts.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Now, while there was no statewide police force, Mr. Weldon, who was a well-known engineer, seems like he was quite connected, used his influence and connections to bring in police from both New York and Connecticut. However, Vermont did have a state investigator, Almo Franzoni, who was assigned to this case.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So while the team worked hard to pull everything together and find her, it has also been speculated that due to the lack of a statewide police force, the investigation for this case was unorganized and lacking in resources and maybe disorganized from the very beginning, especially with these two interstate police forces now coming into this picture. Now, this part I find very sweet.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Those who were volunteering in the search for Weldon also raised money to serve as a reward for anyone that could find her. And this reward totaled $5,000, not a measly sum by any means. Accounting for inflation, that would be about $81,000 in today's currency. Ooh. So that's how much they raised. I mean, in a town for maybe 8,000 people in a census of 1950, they had 8,000 people.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And I do hope that that at the time, I mean, we know this is a cold case, but I do hope that that helped close some of the gap for the potentially low resourced police officers, right? To provide such a substantial reward might incentivize, like you're saying, get some other people to help. Now, of course we know, unfortunately, these searches came up empty, and no traces of Paula were ever found.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
She seemingly disappeared into thin air. By December 16th, Mr. Weldon had returned to Connecticut to be with his wife, though it is reported that searches for Paula continued into January. In November of 1947, nearly a year after her disappearance, Franzoni was quoted in the Bridgeport Telegram saying, quote, I don't think we ever had a good clue. It is always before us, end quote.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Essentially saying that they didn't really have much to go off of. They had the last sighting. They had her destination. But other than that, there's not a lot of clues. And so any information kind of stayed ahead of them. They were never able to uncover anything.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Wow, that I mean. Dang, dude. And that opens up, as we talk about, right? The longer somebody is missing, the more vectors of disappearance they have. The more possibilities they went this way, that way, the other. The more opportunity for them to go missing in the wilderness. But man, I never thought about somebody else, a ne'er-do-well, picking her up. Yeah. And she getting disappeared that way.
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I got to see a Colosseum battle, especially when apparently they flooded that thing and they put ships in there. That's good. That's good. I want to see that. That's good. Let me get like 30 seconds in the Dinosaur Times. You know what I mean?
Red Web
Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I mean, and you brought up the idea of bobcats or other predators in the area. And actually, I'm very curious. We're right now at the point where we're going to talk about some suspects. We're going to talk about some theories. This might be a good opportunity. Christian, if you don't mind... What kind of apex predators are in this area?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
If we're looking at the Appalachian Mountains, we're talking bobcats for sure. But I don't know if they extend all the way north or not. But this would be a really interesting thing to hear.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Vermont! Man.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I thought that was a chill getaway, you know, like a cabin in the woods, not horror movie style, just like chill, relaxed, peaceful nature. Read a book. No, dude. Oh, man. All right, well, that's a theory I'll be honest, we're not going to explore, but I think it's entirely viable. You know, your inclination to say that an animal, a predator, it could have gone that way.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
The other inclination being that maybe her hike was finished and on her way back, an air duel disappeared her from there. That's another interesting angle. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash red web. Huel Black Edition ready to drink is a meal in a bottle. One bottle contains 35 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and is low in sugar.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Now I want to talk about Huel because I have used this. It is so tasty. And as somebody who tries to stay fit, stay working out, I'm trying to gain that muscle mass. You know, I want to be buff like a scientist. I use Huel to set up a robust foundation for my nutrition. It's got amazing macro spreads. It's got all the micronutrients.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I want to see it. I want to see that guy. And I'm like, I'm counting down on my watch as it's approaching me. I'm like, all right, buzz me out. You're running.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's not something I rely on for every single meal, but man, is it convenient. I throw a scoop of that into my protein shakes or into my fruit smoothies. And it really helps make sure that I'm getting the vitamins, the nutrition, the protein, the carbs, everything I need to recover and grow my muscles, but also just stay full and stay fit on the go. I really do enjoy Huel.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I think it's an amazing asset for my nutritional background. But whether you're lifting or just a busy person that needs to make sure they're eating enough in the day, I think you're going to enjoy this. And if so, new customers, visit Huel.com slash Red Web today and use code Red Web to get 15% off your first order plus a free gift. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Shopify.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Task Force, when you think about businesses with those criminally good sales, you know I've talked about them. Magic Spoon is a good example. Sure, you think about that in-demand product. You think about premeditated branding. Scary good marketing.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And of course, the often overlooked secret, it's actually the business behind the business, making the selling and the buying simple for the, what is it? Business. And for millions of businesses, that business is Shopify.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not-so-secret secret with Shop Pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning that way less carts go abandoned and way more sales going. Let me hear it. So let me put it this way, Task Force. If you're into growing your business or your commerce platform or whatever you got going on,
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. On the web, in your store, on their feed, everywhere in between. Maybe like down here in the bunkers, in the subterranean floors of the HQ. We've got a farmer's market that happens 24-7. You just gotta find what floor it's on, but then you can set up shop with Shopify, okay?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Because ultimately, businesses that sell more, sell on Shopify. upgrade your business and get the same checkout that Magic Spoon uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash redweb, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash redweb to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash redweb. Let me hear it.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But first up, we're going to talk about her father, William Archibald Weldon. Because around the time of Paula's disappearance, some pointed a finger at her father, citing him as the possible cause of her disappearance. In the days following Paula's disappearance, a tip came from a waitress in Massachusetts regarding the potential citing of someone that looked like Paula, right?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
This woman was seemingly distressed. It was a young woman that very much resembled Paula. And after this, Mr. Weldon disappeared for 36 hours and didn't tell anybody about his whereabouts, what he was doing, where he was going. Now my inclination says, once again, father hears rumors of daughter maybe being somewhere, goes into action.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But a lot of other people that are kind of perpetuating this theory say that raised suspicions, right? Especially around his community. Why would you disappear like that? Why would you not tell anybody? Right. It just feels odd.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Now, while there's no motive or concrete evidence to prove that Mr. Weldon had any involvement in this case, a lot of people point to the fact that it seems that Paula and her parents had a strained relationship.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
When being interviewed by police, Mr. Weldon stated that there was nothing off about his daughter's recent demeanor, any indication that something was strange, and that she seemed happy in her letters that she sent home. In fact, he even went so far as to say that he didn't think that there was any problem with her wanting to stay at school during the Thanksgiving Day holiday.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You know, that's when kids can come home or what have you. She didn't. And he's like, that's fine. That didn't seem to be a problem. However, Paula's roommate, on the other hand, recalls that Paula and her father had a recent falling out over that very same decision for her to not come home for Thanksgiving, and that Paula had recently seemed all out of sorts and depressed.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And so this juxtaposition, right? The dad saying, no, everything was fine. There was no strained relationship. And then Paula's roommate saying, I don't know, she did seem a little distant, maybe out of sorts, maybe depressed. Yes, there was some friction with the family over her staying at school and not going home for the holidays.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You know, it could be an innocent father just saying, that's a misdirect. I know that that happened, but it's going to point the finger at me and I don't want that. Or it could be a guilty father, once again, trying to cover trails. Yeah. It doesn't lock anything in, but it is suspicious.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You know, if you smell something suspicious, maybe take a closer look, see if other things line up, other evidence. I can see it both ways. You know, I can see why people might be like, hold on a second, that's suspicious. And I can see it, on the other hand, being like... Yeah, that's just bad timing, right? That we had this friction, but that has nothing to do. Listen, this is my daughter.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You know, I can see both sides. And this is really not substantial evidence enough at all. So suspicion, yes. Evidence, no.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But what is interesting is that as investigators continue to interview the people in Paula's life, there were other friends outside of her roommate there at college who did in fact report that she had become noticeably, in fact, increasingly depressed in the days leading up to her disappearance.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Though some of those reports say that she wasn't depressed enough that she would intentionally put herself in harm's way. And I'm reminded now that other sources were saying that she was looking for company. Right. People to join her on this hike.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's a fascinating thing to think about, and I think you're onto something. Now, this particular case, there's not a lot of detail going on, and it's really fascinating. There's some interesting theories, some interesting suspects, but I will say... that, you know, we covered the missing 411 cases.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But also, it's very tough, to your point. Highly sensitive moment. After the fact that she's disappeared, now we're looking back on it with a different lens. Yeah, fine-tooth comb. Right. So you might start to recast, well, yeah, her missing coffee at 9 a.m. starts to look a lot more dramatic. Right. A lot more suspicion here and there.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So I think the thing about this theory is that, yes, there's definitely suspicion. You got to look at where you got to look. But honestly, I come out of this one going, I feel like we got nothing of substance. No. Yeah, I agree. And it's not going to be unfamiliar as we go through these theories.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
That's the unfortunate part is that we have a young woman who's just beginning her life, excited about botany, wanting to hit this trail. And then it's just the period at the end of her life, the end. And we know nothing.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
People are searching, they're digging. And there's some interesting stuff. I will say there's a man named Fred Gaudette we're going to talk about as a suspect. And it adds a little bit of new insight, but just a drop. But before him, I did want to talk about the idea, a theory that was being circulated around that time that Weldon may have run away with a boyfriend, an unidentified boyfriend.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So her parents had stated that she had not been in any serious dating relationship at this point, but Mr. Weldon reported that there was a boy from her hometown that was in fact interested in Paula. He thought maybe this person could have something to do with her disappearance. Maybe it was unrequited love and it turned into something more sinister.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But either way, there's no evidence or details to really push this theory any further.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You know, alibis. Let's see your communications. It's tough. We're in the 40s. There's no Internet. So you got to see, like, is there any post happening here? Have you been out of town lately? All of that stuff. Now, some speculate that her reported depression at the time could have been due to troubles, maybe not at home, but instead of a potential boyfriend.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's kind of a categorization of missing persons cases in North America, like the entire continent, where people go suddenly missing in these wild nature preserves, national parks, things like that. And I would say this would firmly qualify as one of those cases. We did, by the way, Task Force, an entire episode breaking down what missing 411 is. So go check that out.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But once again, this was never confirmed, right? This idea that maybe she was having friction with a partner that we didn't know about. So again, it's just more speculation. And that's where I start to think it's maybe worth mentioning, but it does cloudy the idea of let's find the evidence. Let's figure out the path here. Interesting theory, very, very thin. a lot of speculation.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But this leads us now to a man named Fred Gaudet. According to the police, there was a lumberjack by the name of Fred Gaudet who told two separate people, and we've seen this before, that he knew where Weldon was buried. Of course, police immediately approach him and Gaudette goes, oh, I was just joking. Terrible joke. Don't just don't do that stuff.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And also when talking to police, it seems that he lied on several occasions, giving them different answers when they asked about his whereabouts that night, when Weldon disappeared, what his alibi was. That's another thing you don't want to be doing. Have a flaky alibi on the day of the incident.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, I know what happened. I was kidding. Just kidding. I don't know where I was that night, though, but I'm kidding again. Right. Come on, man. So the alibi he ultimately leans on, and this is the one where I think if he's telling the truth, we can glean a little bit more insight. It's also why it's the definitive moment where I made this map, and we'll see why.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So he claims he was arguing that night with his girlfriend when he saw out the window Weldon walk by his home, and this was on Old Harbor Road.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
again i'll reference back to that second image for you if you want to take a look uh the pink area is where ernie whitman saw her that's kind of the last known sighting if you follow that pink line up that's old harbor road that then dead ends into a trail that's not long trail but confusingly the other name for old harbor road is long trail road
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And so maybe this is where I'm like, are sources confused? Was Weldon confused? Did she go up this path? Well, if we're to trust Gaudette, she did. And so up this road she went, there is a path at the end of that road. And that path, it has no name to it, but if you follow it up north for about four and a half miles, it eventually connects to Long Trail. Are you following? It's a little foggy.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
but i think that this might have been completely yeah i think this is the path she took no it makes perfect sense right the question that i have is like if have we established that she likes to go on hikes so that's we don't have a whole lot of information about that it seems she has been on long trail before as part of her botany course okay it seems that yes she did have some interest in this which is why she wanted to do this recreationally but that's kind of as far as we can glean
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But yeah, this case is very intriguing. This isn't like in the wilderness, right? I mean, you were saying it's not. Oh, we're getting in there. Yeah. We're in Vermont. We're kind of in the sticks of Vermont that they might say, you know, the backwoods. So it's further removed from your urban suburban territory. We're going on a hike and we're not coming back.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah. Because if you follow Old Harbor Road down the way, there are some houses alongside it and then it dead ends into the trail. But if you go to the actual trailhead, which I marked on the map and then in green, I traced out Long Trail. If you go to the Google Street View, it's literally a trailhead. It says Long Trail. and it's just a trail that comes off the road.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I believe there might be a small parking area unofficially on one side of the road.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, well, it's different. It's different enough.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I'm thinking it's totally easy that someone says, hey, I know a trail down this road. Maybe it's safer for you. It does eventually connect to Long Trail. So if that's all you're looking to do, this one will be safe. But either way, that's where some of the confusion lied, which is why I made that map. But suffice to say, if Godet's telling the truth and he is living along this purple route,
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
This now really confirms that this is where she went and this is where she last was seen. So now he is arguing, sees her out the window. Now, shortly after seeing her, he claims that he storms out of this argument. He can't have it anymore. He goes outside. And as the story goes, he either drove along this trail or went to his shack just kind of on his property.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
This is the inconsistency in the story that he told police on separate occasions, you know, so is his alibi flimsy or is it just a minor detail? I'll leave that to you to decide, but either way, police looked into Gaudet's claims and when they could not find any evidence that pointed to his involvement, they stopped looking into him as a suspect.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So again, like I said, drop of more info, but no conclusions.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Just a minor thing. You know, you never know. But if you suddenly get your door knocked on and you're suddenly, hey, you're the last person that saw somebody. you're on your back foot. Right, yeah. And I'll be honest, maybe this is just me. I'm a nervous little Nelly, but I've talked to police in kind scenarios when they're helping me out and I'm flustered, you know what I mean?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Because they're an authoritative figure, right?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Sure. Yeah. And you and you don't want to like fumble your language. You know, like if they're trying to help you out with something that went missing, got taken, which is my case. I don't want to, you know, misposition of facts because I don't want to waste their time. But I also don't know the repercussions of, you know what I'm saying? And that's a low stakes environment. That's just me.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, absolutely. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk about numbers. Traditionally, in-person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. But with BetterHelp Online Therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah. Or, you know, come up with some sort of biodegradable, environmentally friendly neon orange spray can so you can kind of like Hansel and Gretel spray paint your path and be like, this is where I'm going. Yeah. Just in case, you know, or just tie a really long piece of yarn to yourself.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Plus, you can switch therapists at any time, which I think is very important. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash redweb to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash redweb.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And so this is where I want to recognize there's a coming tone shift with this last theory. So I want to shake it off because at the end of the day, the disappearance of Paula Jean Weldon is deeply upsetting. I mean, there's not a lot to go off of. There's only suspicion and speculation. And the fact that she just disappeared into thin air, I think, is kind of the genesis of this final theory.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And it's part of the lifeblood of this podcast where we talk about the paranormal. We talk about the supernatural. And you know me... I'm like, I desperately want there to be something out there. I would love to see a Bigfoot cuddle in his arms and then call it an evening and say, I'll never tell anybody, but I'll know, you know? But do we have the evidence? Not yet.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So again, tone shift, we'll shake it off as the energy changes here. But I want to talk about the idea of what's been referred to as the Bennington Triangle. And this one's actually kind of interesting.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So this term was coined by an author named Joe Citro, which he used to describe at least five different disappearances that all occurred in Bennington or the surrounding areas between 1945 and 1954. Five disappearances in five years, including the one we're talking about, where people just disappeared. And at the center of this supposed triangle is the Glastonbury Mountain.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So, Citro theorized that there was something amiss in this area, where the disappearances ranged from an eight-year-old boy all the way up to a 74-year-old man. Now what's further interesting about these disappearances is that from all of these missing persons cases, only one body was ever found.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So five people missing, one body found, and even then the cause of death was debated because the state of decay altered the ability to get a clear answer on the one that was discovered. Now within this theory, there are several theories about what caused these strange disappearances in the area. Of course, there is the Algonquian legend.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
We talked about the Algonquians in the Pukwudgie cryptid case. Get a little bit of folklore and some history and culture in there. But Algonquian legend warns of a stone that will swallow whomever stands on it. And kind of making a more ambiguous claim in broader Native American lore, the mountain at the center of this triangle, Glastonbury Mountain, maybe is that stone.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It has been both said to be sacred and cursed, which is a pretty big stereotype of much of the Native American lore in the country. But that's where some people go. Now, others theorize that there is a Bigfoot-esque creature who lives in Glastonbury Mountain and is the cause of these strange disappearances. And you know me, okay? We got ourselves a West Coast Bigfoot.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I would love me an East Coast Bigfoot. What kind of East Coast flow will this maybe Biggie Smallsfoot have?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Well, hold on. We don't know that, though. You ever see how tall these trees can be? You ever see camouflage of cuddly, perfect brown fur hidden in the foliage of an autumnal Adirondacks?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Sniff it and pull it apart. Damn it. All right. So before we dive in, as always, I want to give a huge shout out to the task force members over on our Patreon page. Genuinely, it is the number one way to support this podcast. It is why we are able to run. It is how we bring you mysteries every single week. And if you want to support us directly, you can do that at redwebpod.com. Lots going on.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I mean, that's out there. If you look close enough, there's always someone filming a tree with nothing in it. And they're like, you see it? It's up there. And I never know what they're filming. They never describe what they see. Yeah, that's true. So I don't know, man. Like, do I think that there's a giant prehistoric man walking around with giant feet? Definitely.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Bigfoot, though, would be a heck of an apex predator.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, that's what I think. You know, we need our SEAL Team 6 to become like Bigfoot 6. Yeah, BF6. The BF6. They're hiding in plain sight. We need to learn these tactics. Yeah. And we will become a greater force than we could ever imagine. Amazing. Hide and seek champions. Maybe we just enlist them. You know, we get the big feet on our team. Yeah. Listen, I think that there's a viability to it.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
There's a small inkling, but I'm like, but you're right. How do they stay hiding? Yeah. Okay, but the other idea behind this triangle, right? And there's not much else to go off of because again, there's no evidence, it's just speculation.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But when you look at all these disappearances and you try to link them together, some believe that a serial killer might've been terrorizing the area during this time. which is entirely viable. You know, people can disappear in these woods very easily.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And if you don't know where to look, because it's just wilderness, somebody could go out there, bury them under God knows whatever tree, and then they themselves never know where it was. And so if you have some sort of sinister person just snatching people up, disappearing them into the woods, and just end, right?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
This is the final round of Mystery Madness, which means this week we reveal who wins it all. We don't know who it is, but it's recorded right now. And it's coming out on Thursday, so check that out. We also have Break Room Episode 2 coming to you live next Wednesday, April 16th at 6 p.m. Central Time. Check out our Discord. That's where it's going to be. Those are recorded and released later.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. There might be a type of serial killer case that is just never known to be a serial killer because they stopped before they got caught or they stopped before things got strung together.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I mean, I don't know all five people, but if we're talking an eight year old boy, a 74 year old man and an 18 year old woman, I think like we're talking, you know, people that are a little bit more on the helpless side, a little bit more on like the smaller, I don't know, I don't want to say weak, but can't fight back as easily. Right.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And so, I mean, if you're looking at the idea of there being a serial killer, this could be somebody who themselves might be kind of meek and is looking for people that they can easily outstrength or whatever.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Well, you know, if you if there was a serial killer with an M.O. that they hounded jujitsu courses, martial arts classes and gym bros like asses kicked that or we would just figure out that there is there is a very fearful serial killer out there.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Listen, I'll just say it. Okay, I'll be brave. A person coming out of a gym is going to be a little stronger than an eight-year-old boy, okay? Yeah. And there are differences in play, okay? But we talked about that.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I mean, even the I-70 Strangler case, right, where the killer that we're very, very likely to be this person, they're one of the suspects, much slimmer in demeanor and the way they went about things. We talked about how size can play into these things and how different people have different MOs and how they attack people. It's wild.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But coming back to this theory, ultimately, you know, like I said at the very top of the episode, this reminds me of the missing 411 topic where former police officer David Polites attempts to link a large network of disappearances across national parks in the North American continent. It is interesting to say the least. Is it substantial? Is there one solid answer for all these cases? No.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Can people go missing in the wilderness more easily than an urban environment or suburban environment? Honestly, I don't know that answer, but my inclination says maybe because there can be sinkholes, caves, uncharted territory, treacherous terrain. All of those things pepper the missing 411 cases. But I do think there's something fascinating about the idea of
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
finding a commonality between all of those.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, and it stands as a theory, right? Or maybe even a hypothesis, pre-theory, where, well, this is what I noticed, there's a pattern, let's look at it, and maybe on the other side we'll find some new evidence, or maybe we won't. And I feel like that's kind of where it lives.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But if you want to be part of the conversation, come out to Break Room live. And then, of course, next week, Fredo, you know, video podcast. We beta tested the thing. We had a pilot last month.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But in closing, you know, Paula Jean Weldon's disappearance remains to be a cold case, and no concrete evidence has ever been found regarding her whereabouts or what happened that day.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
her disappearance led to the invention of a statewide police force in vermont and the outcome of different agencies being involved is widely regarded as a mistreatment of this case remember new york getting involved connecticut getting involved the father activating some of his connections to make that happen and some reports even state that no records were kept regarding this entire case and all these different police departments for the first 10 days of the investigation jesus
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So I don't know if that's malpractice, if that's the right word for a case, or if that's a symptom of the lack of resources. But either way, it is an upsetting fact or an upsetting report. We don't know it for sure, for sure. But it is widely reported and just honestly, just a bummer to cap this case off.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
We don't know what we don't know. And I think your inclination might be right. You know, if you have a small force of people, not, you know, not like you don't have an army, right? And you're combing the woods, you're doing that thing where everyone's standing about six feet apart and moving through. Yeah, you're physically out there looking. You're doing whatever you can.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So I don't want to condemn anybody for how they approached it. But, you know, it's one of those things with hindsight that you start to go, man, if I could time travel, I would go back and maybe re-approach, reassess. Right. But that's one of the toughest parts about these cases is the hindsight.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, yeah. Well, with that, Fredo, this has been the disappearance of Paula Jean Weldon. Task Force, as always, we want to point you to redwebpod.com. It is the number one way to support this show if you can do so. But if you would like, you can also support this show for free.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Simply reviewing us wherever you listen to podcasts, giving us that luscious five star helps bolster us in an increasingly algorithmic world, helping us share this podcast with friends that you know, people that love mysteries, people that love the macabre and want to explore the unknown, people that you can chat about the mysteries with. I got my boy Fredo. I got Christian. I got Jillian.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah. I get to see Fredo bounce around in his room.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
He's got his rippling muscles out. I'll tell you right now, I can see him.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
If you want to see Glistening Fredo next week, that's the time to do it. But of course, we have Shailen Imler and Brian Findlay also as two buff members of the task force with that buff mind. There you go. You know, buff scientist members. And then, of course, the Squonks, which are still strong. They're still going strong against that Fredo armada.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But we have Broman, Tucker Did It, B-Wick, and Brett O'Meara with those monthly shout outs, just to name a few.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the supernatural. I'm your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Listen, I don't think they're running scared anymore, Fredo. I think they're coalescing. They're teaming up and coming after you.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's a game of chess or checkers, probably more so checkers. All right. Now let's take you all the way back, Fredo, to December 1st, 1946. Paula Jean Weldon disappeared from her small town of Bennington, Vermont. Right out the gate, we have a visual for you. This is Paula Jean Weldon. So if you're going to take a look there, as she was. Wow. That's a great photo from what, the 40s?
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
That's from the 40s. It might have been, as they call it, colorized, where they bring color to an old black and white photo. That's what it looks like, yeah. It's well-posed, like a model.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yep, they knew how to do it back then. Now, she was born on October 19th, 1928. Weldon was the oldest of four daughters at 18 years old and a sophomore attending Bennington College, a women's college at the time, but I believe in the late 60s became co-ed.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Now, she had just finished working two dining hall shifts and she came back to her dormitory where she chatted with her roommate, Elizabeth Johnson. She told Johnson that she had finished her studies for the day and was going to take a long walk, kind of in her words. Around this time, I believe some sources say that she was also looking for other people to join her on this hike.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It was something that she was going to go do. And again, per various sources, she didn't find anybody to join her. Hence, she went alone. So Weldon left her dormitory around 2.45 PM wearing a red parka, blue jeans, and a pair of sneakers. While this outfit is not unusual for a brisk walk, several people have noted that this outfit would not sustain cold weather that would come by nightfall.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And we'll hear a little bit more about this, honestly, not too far from here. Now, as I begin to dive into the details of her journey, I actually wanted to create a map to help visualize the area and the conversation. So go ahead and take another look at that image there, the second image.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And Task Force, as always, these images will be in the YouTube upload of this podcast, as well as on our social pages. I'll try to post a full resolution of this in the video and on Patreon and everywhere, just so you can really look at all the details. But We're looking at a color-coded map showing the main routes. One, where she was picked up. We'll talk about it. Two, where she's dropped off.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And three, where she's kind of last seen.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Oh, my goodness. We're up in Vermont, you know, New England territory, not too far from Canada. This is the south side of Vermont, but there is a lot of wilderness to your point.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah. So we're looking at Bennington. We're looking at Vermont Route 67A. We're looking at Vermont Route 9 and a hiking trail that is known as Long Trail. Now, we'll pull up this visual periodically if you need this. I'll try to paint a verbal image for those of you listening on the podcast, of course. But with this image in mind, let's take a look at the timeline.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So again, she leaves her dorm at 2.45 p.m. At 3 p.m., a local man named Louis Knapp picked up a hitchhiker that matched Weldon's description along Route 67A. This is a four and a quarter mile stretch of highway running east to west in Bennington County, Vermont. So I do want to say hitchhiking nowadays maybe has kind of a I'm not into that sort of energy vibe to it.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
That's what we're kind of after. She's hitchhiking to see if anyone's heading that direction. She can maybe hop in their car, get some distance because she's on foot. It's going to be a heck of a walk from where she's at.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
No way, dude. I've done this podcast long enough to know that I put my thumb out there. I might disappear. Genuinely, that is a concern I have. And it's well founded over the decades. But what's interesting, and it's of note, right? During this time period, especially the 30s and 40s, it was a lot more common.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It wasn't without danger entirely, but it was a lot more ordinary for people to do, a lot more supportive. So Lewis Knapp picks somebody up that looks like Weldon. He says, like, listen, I'm heading that direction. Once I get to my house, because I live on the way to that path, I will drop you off. You'll have to figure it out from there.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
It's kind of a rough idea of where it is. So to paint a more vivid picture, she then, when entering the vehicle, says, hey, I need to get to the entrance of Long Trail. This is a hiking trail that Weldon had been briefly on during a botany course here in college. Knapp later told authorities that he did agree to drive the girl as far as his house along Route 9. I've marked that roughly.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But to give you a good idea of how far it is from the trail entrance, it's about two and a half miles short. So now we know that she's dropped off around this area. and she has two and a half miles to cover on foot before getting to that entrance.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
But then also is not going to take like all day. A two and a half mile walk, depending on how fast you go. 40 to 50 minutes.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
You don't want to like hitchhike in the dark. True 100%. And we're going to get into that, too, because sunset is quite early this time of year in the northeast. So now we know that she was somewhere around two and a half miles short of the entrance. And the last confirmed sighting of Weldon was by a man named Ernie Whitman.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So Whitman told police that a girl matching Weldon's description stopped by his cabin very close to Long Trail and then asked how far that trail extended. He told Weldon that he had only hiked five miles himself, but he believed that it went all the way up to Canada. Which indeed it does. I actually tracked it on Google Maps. I scrolled for like 30 minutes up the path to keep an eye on it.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
I could Google this, but I had to do it by hand. The long trail meanders across Vermont for 273 miles or 439 kilometers. So if she was inclined, she could certainly take that hike all the way up to the border. I also want to say that this trail is not a very difficult trail, but depending on where you are on it, it is rated somewhere between moderate and strenuous as a hiking journey.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
There's something darkly intriguing about it. And I think you're onto something because there's always some sort of hindsight where you're like, God, if we only knew that this, that, and the other happened at the moment when we were investigating, maybe we would have found them. So I feel like you're right.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
So coming back to Whitman now, you know, he's having this conversation. She's looking for the trail. And by all estimates, this encounter is happening at around 4 p.m. And Whitman warns Weldon that her clothes would not be warm enough for the dropping night temperatures. And she went on her way. They said goodbye.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
And what's interesting is that he is near the trail entrance or one of the trail entrances. And it's 4 p.m. He's like, listen, it's going to get cold quick. Sunset, by the way, that day is 15 minutes later at 4.15 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. So she's kind of like sunk cost fallacy. I made it all the way out here. I'm going to do my hike. But it's about to get dark.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Yeah, it is. You're far east. You're up north. It is getting into the dead of December. So we've got some short days on our hands. Now we know the drill. This was the last that Weldon had been seen. But we didn't know it yet. And it wasn't until Weldon did not return that evening that her roommate Johnson figured, well, maybe she's studying for exams in the library.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Maybe she has something else going on in college. But the following morning when she woke up on December 2nd and Weldon wasn't there, she decided to contact the university and say, hey, my roommate might be missing. Officials at Bennington College then reached out to the Weldon family when they confirmed that she had not gone to any of her morning classes.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
They asked if Weldon had returned home for any reason, if they had any idea where her whereabouts might be, but this would be the first that her family would know of the situation. Now, it's reported that Weldon's mother, Jean Douglas, fainted upon hearing this news and then was confined to her bed after hearing all of this.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Her father, William Archibald Weldon, immediately set off for Bennington from their family home 174 miles away, right? He's 280 kilometers south in Stamford, Connecticut. So he's immediately out the door, heading up north to figure out where his daughter is and help find her. This is not an unfamiliar trend that we see, right? When a kid goes missing, one of the parents, if not both, on the scene.
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Like a lot of people would want to go back because we feel like with that hindsight, we could have solved it. And I think that's what's so...
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Disappearance of Paula Jean Welden | Vanished Without a Trace in the Bennington Triangle
Coincidentally, Ernie Whitman was a watchman for the Bennington Banner, which is the town's local newspaper. So it's interesting that he was the last to see her because when he saw a photo the following day of Weldon while cleaning up the press room, he recognized her as the girl he spoke to. And so he was immediately able to point investigators to the long trail.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Like a little drive by, like blast them with a little confusion, knock them out and then leave. All right. Hit them with it. Yeah. A little boom bop.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Spread your brand's word with built-in marketing tools and email tools as well to find and keep new customers, which is incredibly important. And again, that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world. Well, it is why Shopify is the best converting checkout on the planet and your customers already love it. I have a lot of experience with Shopify.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It has been so easy to set up and use. And in the past, the Red Web store was run by Shopify. So I got that hands-on experience of exactly what they're talking about. And it's very easy and simple to run your business behind it. If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash Red Web. Go to Shopify.com slash Red Web. Shopify.com slash Red Web. We'll talk about pesticides in a second, but I want to start with a different type of poisoning. Because as soon as the Holland Well incident occurred, food poisoning was initially suggested as the possible cause of illness. It's true, yeah.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Perhaps a treat was handed out to all the students as they entered the field. I know when I played soccer as a youth, people had the orange slices, the Capri Sun, the Squeezies, those like plastic beer bottle looking things. Yep.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
You know. Oh, yeah. That was about three sips worth, but it was delicious.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Oh, yeah. Listen, you need it after a hard day of soccer. But also people were talking about water on site being contaminated. So once again, I want to talk about the 14 Times. They are a British magazine. And since 1973, they're very similar to Red Web. Yes, they talk about a lot of mysteries, fringe cases everywhere. but they pride themselves on having that analytical forward mind.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Listen, there's something about the unknown, the unexplained that the people always got to bring an alien into the picture. It's not always a robust theory, but we got to mention it when it's on the table. There's not a whole lot to be said, but there's there's an element there. We got to talk about it. We'll talk about, you know, the background of this incident because it was real.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
They don't want to just blindly believe all this stuff. They do want to come with at least some level of critique and analysis. So, you know, they do lean into the unknown, but there is some level of analysis there for the sake of understanding that source. But according to them, witnesses heard an announcement that urged visitors not to eat the ice cream or drink the water.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
However, it's uncertain if this announcement occurred before or after the incident or always this happens, whether it even happened at all. So it's just got to be flagged. You know, we don't know. We don't know. But this has been reported in a few sources that this announcement happened in some way.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So here's one of the elements I like so much about this case is because they took it seriously and they immediately got tangible with it. There was no stone left unturned, and because of this theory, health inspectors arrived with police that day.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
They took samples of the food, took samples of the water, and the Severn Trent Water Authority actually said that there was no contamination that they found in the water. And then the tests on the food itself also seemed clear of contamination. I like that. I like that there were tests conducted.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And now we got to go. Wait, but why?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah. We looked into it and we shredded the documents. I don't know. Lost the skull in the mail. No, they went to the local gym. They said, stop slanging and banging, you scientists. Get over here. You know, test the water. They flexed out of their lab coats, put on a new lab coat, and then they assess the situation. That's how it's done. Yeah.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So the wrinkle here, beyond the obvious negative test results, and this is the one that kind of came to mind immediately, is that some of the affected children only, by document's sake, ate what they brought or what the school brought. And so mass food poisoning doesn't really make sense if they're not sharing in the communal water or what have you.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
At least of all the babies, if they're two or three weeks old, they're not drinking water. They're not eating, you know, cookies and whatnot. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. So I think, to me, food poisoning can be ruled out for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is where we want to move into the pesticides. This is a more popular theory.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Again, it's one of the leading theories that some sort of pesticide caused this. So farmers nearby the Hollandwell showground were immediately questioned. Again, we're getting that tangible information, baby. And they were questioned about the use of pesticides or even insecticides. Hey, we know you've been here for decades. We know many of you are using the same product over many years.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But what are you using? Let's keep investigating. We want to kind of figure it all out. And the closest farmer to the showgrounds actually said that they didn't use any pesticides, nor had they for several years. And then, according to the Nottinghamshire Fire Service, quote, the wind was in completely the wrong direction, end quote.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
This did happen and it happened suddenly across this one event. And there are a few cases that happened a few days after. But really, this particular case will live in the theories and conspiracies behind it. What happened? Because we know something happened. Police investigators got their hands in, started to investigate all these different theories.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So if there were pesticides from this farm or from the farms they were talking about, it actually would have been swept up and carried by the wind in the opposite direction rather than right to the kids. Damn. Damn, I really thought...
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
We're still, hold on. We're still in there.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But there's a, it is a admittedly big wrinkle, but there's still some floaters here. Some, some things settling on the table, so to speak. Right. Okay. Okay. So the BBC released a documentary in 2003 and they found that a pesticide called Calixin had been sprayed on the field, right? That the children were at the day before the event. Right. Okay, so now we're not talking about the farmers nearby.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
That wrinkle might not matter. We got something on the field. Yep. This pesticide was known to contain tridomorph. I hope I'm pronouncing that properly, but it's a fungicide, and it's used to prevent mildew from forming on grasses, basically keep the grass healthy.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And it is worth knowing that the World Health Organization designated this chemical as harmful in 1999. Okay. So this was 19 years after the event. And when looking into this, I was like, all right, well, what kind of harm? Is it similar to what we experienced? Tritomorph is found to cause skin and eye irritation, and it actually has been banned in the United Kingdom ever since the year 2000.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Additionally, under the WHO's five-level pesticide classification system, it's labeled as a class two, meaning it's not super hazardous. It's not like carcinogenic perhaps, but they do label it as kind of moderately hazardous. Now, all this said, there's a different governmental entity here that we want to talk about, and that's the Environmental Protections Agency, the EPA.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And in 2006, here's what they said. Quote, the agency has evaluated the human health risks associated with tridemorph residues on commodities and has determined that there is a reasonable certainty that no harm will result from exposure to these residues. End quote. What you feeling?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I'm torn because then it's like yes and no. You know what I mean? It's kind of where we're at. Exactly. So you have the World Health Organization saying, hey, it's harmful in the sense that it can cause skin and eye irritation. Right. You don't even want that.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
On the other hand, you have the EPA saying that residues on commodities, we're not talking about being directly in the field where it's sprayed, but it might be as a residue on a commodity, which is technically slightly different. It's not enough to maybe cause harm. But at the same time, the harm that we're hearing from the World Health Organization isn't passing out. It's not vomiting.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It's not smelling or tasting anything. It's not causing blisters. Well, maybe the skin irritation can cause blisters. So it's not fully in line. And so to me.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And I think that's the most confusing part is that so many of these theories are realistic, actually give you a proper answer. And then it turns out, based on how everything went that day, that it was debunked. And so how can you debunk all the things that make sense and have no answers left? It's just so weird.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
yeah it's tough i i mean i feel like there's something there right but again there's that big wrinkle in there and so it's kind of open it's still open but it still makes sense This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Aura Frames. This Mother's Day, hope you didn't forget it, you can give your mom a phone call and an Aura digital picture frame. I have so many of these in my own house.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
My mom's got one in her house. So anytime I want to send photos to her or my whole family, it's the same house, but I'm talking about mom because it's mom's day, okay? I send photos their way. I just got married. Boom, photos on the frame and she can see that anytime. Sometimes I goof around and I send little prank photos and she'll send them back to me.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
That's right, you can upload videos as long as 30 seconds and your favorite live iPhone photos will play right in the frame. The embedded speaker can play audio on demand and it's so simple to set up. Your mom will have no problems with it. I could figure it out. And it only takes about two minutes to do so using the Aura app. By the way, there's no hidden fees or subscriptions.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Boom, set it up, get your pictures in there, share the love with your family. And by the way, Aura has a great deal for Mother's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off plus free shipping on their best-selling Carver Matte Frame. That's A-U-R-A frames.com. Promo code REDWEB. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Terms and conditions apply. This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they have avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It can also impact families, workplaces, and sometimes entire communities, depending on what's going on. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Let's encourage everyone to take care of their well-being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy. One thing I appreciate about BetterHelp is just how approachable it can be.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
The privacy of doing this in your own home can kind of help you conquer the stigma, so to speak, but also it can be very difficult to talk about your own needs and finding the right therapist can be difficult and BetterHelp is a wonderful tool to begin that journey.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Visit betterhelp.com slash redweb to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash redweb. This then leads us to the next theory, which is so interesting, though it is also a little thin, right? So multiple news sources at the time have mentioned a theory that radio waves potentially caused this illness.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah. But I do love the idea of somewhere in the government, there's a room, right? We always picture a conspiracy board with the red string strewn all over the place. Maybe their theories have gotten so convoluted that the webs start to leap off the board onto a board across the room. And so it's a three-dimensional web.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So according to the Fortean Times, there was a Scottish man who contacted the police suggesting electromagnetic waves could have caused whatever this was. And I think as I read from other reports and other sources, they called the news and said, hey, I saw this mysterious box at a nearby gas station. So please go to check that out.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And the 14 times actually claimed that this high frequency transmitter was found nearby the Holland Well showgrounds, though it was immediately dismissed immediately. After being found, no deeper investigation was necessary, says the police. So we know that there was something kind of pointed at. We know the police went and got it. And so now you can kind of get conspiracy with it.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Oh, maybe it was a secret device and they just went mums.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Right. The British men in black showed up. Hey, this podcast has done me. It's exactly where my mind went.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah. Someone with like a two foot tall badge showed up and they whipped that out and they said, this is my jurisdiction. Right. And the police put their smaller badges away and they said, okay, we didn't see anything. But I don't know. They basically said, I don't know if this is what you think it is. This this seems to be a little bit silly. So they kind of dismissed it and moved on.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But we have talked about this concept, some of it proven by science, some of it a little bit more fringe. But this idea of waves, both in the form of radiation, but also in the form of sounds, having demonstrable impacts on people, specifically in the episode on Dyatlov Pass, we mentioned infrasound. And that is where there's a lot of complexities here.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I'm going to simplify, but extremely low waves, right? Sound waves like this inaudible one, one, one can create this uneasiness in the body. It can lead to panic attacks. It can lead to other psychological impacts.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And beyond that, you know, there's other high frequencies like ultrasound, ultraviolet light, x-rays, other things like that, that yes, can be dangerous to humans, can cause tissue damage at high levels. But again, that takes high levels. It also takes a little bit of time for that to manifest. So I'm not writing it off.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I'm also not subscribing to it, but it is an element that people have talked about. So ultimately, yeah, it's unclear kind of what sort of waves would have impacted the children, what they would have been exposed to, if anything at all. So overall, this theory, as interesting as it might be, right, it starts to dabble in that conspiracy a little bit. Yeah, it does.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
You're like, there's just one guy in there with a bunch of cigarettes and he's just, he doesn't know what to do. Yeah.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It does lack fundamental backing information and grounding science. Like we just don't know enough about whatever that mysterious transmitter was. And speaking of the fun stuff, but also lacking evidence, we got one more to talk to before we get to the next leading theory on this case. And of course, another mention of the 14 times we got aliens. We got UFOs in the area.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Right. What's the twist? What's the angle? And listen, Task Force, you know me. Do I want it to be aliens? Every single time I do. Am I going to just blindly subscribe? I can't. And I won't. I have to analyze it because if aliens are there, I want to know how and why. Yeah. I can't just go, they are and that's it. You know, not every bump in the night can be a ghoul, even if I want it to be.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Okay, so in past episodes regarding some pretty vivid UFO encounters, we've had people encountering strange smells, strange tastes, especially the metallic taste in the mouth. But beyond that, this theory is a little thin. There was, a week after this incident, a report in the Daily Telegraph that police were investigating a UFO that had been spotted landing in a nearby field.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Now, this could be a separate incident. It could be related. I also remember reading about some reports of people seeing a mysterious aircraft days prior to the event. I think in some sources it was quoted as airplane, but it was like a strange airplane. So was it a UFO alien or was it truly an unidentified flying object, but of man-made kind?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
If it looks like a plane and it tastes like a plane, it might be a plane. Yeah.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Absolutely. That's maybe the fundamental difference. And that's one way to look at this. I know I'm cutting out a lot of nuance. We talked about these in other episodes. So the nuance is there in our backlog. But cutting out the nuance, right? Maybe that's the difference between the mid 50s UFO explosion because of these classified aircraft being seen.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And last December's drone scare where we got New Jersey drones and German drones. and California drones and all these drones because they're all shared on social media. Now we're starting to look at them and question them. And yeah, maybe that is a fundamental difference in how we imbibe and interpret these strange things in the sky. But yeah, I wanted to mention it because it is on the table.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Right. All of it. All of it from the beginning, but I love it. All right, now as we dive into this case, as always, I want to give a huge shout out to our supportive task force members over at redwebpod.com. Of course, we got this week's buff scientist of the week. We got Zakeem Johnson and, of course, Alfredo's hit list, the Squonks. We all love them, but he wants to melt them.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I'm fascinated by it, but it does feel very thin for this particular case.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Which now brings us to the other leading theory, and honestly, a bit divisive at the time. The idea of, and this was proposed at the time, hence the nomenclature of mass hysteria. In modern times, we refer to this as mass psychogenic illness. We talked a whole lot about this in the episode on the dancing plague, where people were literally dancing themselves to death. Right.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
They started dancing, and this happened. They were dancing, they couldn't stop, and many of them would collapse. And as reports say, many of them then died. So, according to Healthline, MPI, if you're not familiar with the term, it refers to, "...an outbreak of unusual and uncharacteristic behaviors, thoughts, and feelings, or health symptoms shared among a group of people."
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So this theory simply posits that one or two kids might have actually been sick or passed out. Maybe the stress of the day, you know, maybe it was actually hot and the heat got to them and they passed out. Maybe anything else could have happened. Maybe localized food poisoning, right? It could have actually happened to one or two people.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And that their fellow students also standing for an hour and a half might have seen this and it might have led to a kind of panic and a spread of these symptoms. So now other kids and parents are all falling prey to this. Yeah.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And I think what adds a lot more color to this picture is the Daily Telegraph's report on this. They said that there was a sporting event that was held the very same day later on in the same field. So we talk about that localized pesticide happening in that field. And at that event, no one got sick.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So that indicates to me, despite the pesticide, which still sounds interesting, that this is very much a localized cause or a localized incident rather than something in the field or something happening around the field.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Now, regarding the pesticide, this kind of again, it adds more context here. But Professor David Ray of the University of Nottingham actually told the Hucknall Dispatch that tried morph can smell similar to bleach. And maybe this sickly smell was present in the air. but maybe tritomorph wasn't the cause of the other symptoms.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So he's basically saying, what if one or two students, in combination with standing up for an hour and a half, smelled this sickly smell from the pesticide, and it was a combination of them smelling that and then passing out, but then mass psychogenic illness is what stepped in to spread it from there, right? Maybe it's a little combo hit here.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
dang yeah yeah and that would make it a mystery that would make it very difficult to pinpoint because how do you really ever pinpoint that you know what i mean right especially with it being apparently so divisive at the time people didn't want to believe that that was the cause they were like well we have to be able to point at something some causal thing mass psychogenic illness that doesn't ring a bell psychology nah it's got to be poison right right dang
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
We got Azrael, Heather Stalkup, Clint from PS3, and Zarathustra, just to name a few. They're all scurrying now through the hallways. Follow the puddles.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Totally. So adding more to this, he said to the Nottingham Post, quote, the weather, the fact that some children had been awake since 3 a.m. could all have been factors. It would only have taken one or two of the children to react by panicking, and that reaction could have spread very quickly. It's usually the smell of the pesticide which triggers the reaction, end quote.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So, yes, maybe pesticide was part of the picture, but more as the trigger to, again, this idea of dominoes, right? And to me, having been a young boy, stood in a hot field for long periods of time before, I know that kids are prone to maybe locking their knees, right? Even as an adult, I know you have a standing desk.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
There's a healthiness to it because it works your back and your legs and there is effort there. And so I was like, listen, what happens if a child is locking their knees for like an hour and a half?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah. You're stood upright. I'm doing some simple Googling and this is the power of the 2020s versus 1980. But some of those symptoms were like feeling lightheaded, maybe passing out, feeling weakness, all of those things that are very similar to what a lot of people experienced and
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And so maybe it's a combination of everybody being tired, everybody standing still for a long period of time, especially if they're carrying a heavy instrument and locking their knees. It doesn't explain that numb limb feeling, feeling like you lost the control of your arm. It doesn't explain the taste. But again, maybe the smell or the taste was the pesticide. It's hard to say.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But combining all of this, others theorize that perhaps the announcement was the thing that really set it off. This idea that, hey, don't eat the ice cream. Don't drink the water. You're feeling sick. You're smelling things. Trust me, I've been there in some way. I can see all of it lining up to create this perfect storm of, I don't feel good, Mr. Stark. And you collapse, right?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It doesn't really even need to be hot out if you're just stood under the direct sun. Right. Or stood still at all, man. Yeah, it's enough. We had to do the thing where if you moved, you lost points. And so a fly comes by and tickles your nose. There's a psychological torture to this thing, man. Yeah, that's true.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But I look back both fondly on those memories and also, man, I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. Exactly. But it all just stands to me as like, okay. Maybe this is simple explanation, just like the dancing plague. Maybe it's more intrigue at the top, but easily understood once you dismantle it and kind of start to dissect it.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But the only wrinkle I can think of, and this is trusting sources, right, is that, again, I don't know if babies, least of all babies that are two to three weeks old, are cognizant enough to go, they're all passing out. I better grow some blisters on my legs. Right. Yeah, that's no, that doesn't that doesn't work like that.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So ultimately, yes, to me personally, it seems like the perfect storm of small things that led to a wild headline grabbing phenomenon, right? That can likely be explained by mass psychogenic illness. Though again, the cause officially remains technically unexplained and the world is filled with mystery lovers and conspiracy lovers alike that want to fill those gaps with intriguing answers.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And sometimes the answer is more boring than you want it to be. But it doesn't stop it from being an intriguing mystery.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Listen, he's making a divide. You are either against the squonks or you are for the squonks. We all love the squonks, but some of us just like them in a different form, the puddle form. But anyway, there's so much happening over at redwebpod.com. Head over there to check it out. Support us directly. We have weekly stuff happening at this point. Break Room is a new show.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I mean, even if the task force abroad wants to subscribe firmly to the mass psychogenic illness theory, which is totally valid, it's so interesting that our minds work like that. I know we're built as a social entity. We have societies as far back as we can recall, and we were... The cavemen, so to speak.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But I find that so fascinating that we're so in tune with one another that this is something that can happen. So even if it is answered by that, there's something so deeply fascinating even by that answer, I think.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah, but this has been the Hollandwell incident. And I want to say the red web stamp of answered can be stamped on this one and we can file it away. But as always, week after week, we have to file it back into our thick, thick folder. Listen, we have so many filing cabinets now of unsolved.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Just warehouses filled and then one small dusty desk. Damn, that's a solid mystery. It is a solid Mystery Task Force. As always, we want to hear your theories over in our Discord. If you want to know how to join, head to redwebpod.com. Support us directly over there. Get some exclusives, some bonus. We have things rolling out at least every week just for you guys supporting us directly.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So thank you all so much for that support. And if you want to know other ways to support us, you can review this show five stars wherever you listen to us. It boosts us. We have seen the fruits of those reviews. Someday we'll we'll look at those reviews and maybe I don't know. Fredo and I have talked about doing a little show where we read your reviews almost like a fan mail kind of thing.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Head in your way every month. Come join the conversation. All that said, go check it out. We are diving into the Hollenwell incident. So Fredo, this took place on July 13th, 1980. There were 11 marching bands from across the East Midlands region of England, and they all gathered in Kirkby in Ashfield for the annual event called the Holland Wells Show.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So Kirkby in Ashfield is about 200 kilometers or 120 miles north of London. And that day, there were around 500 students. So a lot of people in play, a lot of parents, and some of them were as young as seven years old. They began arriving at Hollinwell Showground for the 9 a.m. start time.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Now, at the beginning of the competition, the judges would inspect each school's members and the students would stand at attention for this. So they would assess like how their ranks looked, what their outfits were, you know, basically just doing a broad assessment so we can kind of judge them all together. But around 1030 a.m., these inspections were still going on. So an hour and a half.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the paranormal. I am your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me, hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
I want to earmark that. I mean, 500 students, you said?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
500 is a lot to go through. But as a kid, I did a summer camp at Culver, Indiana. It was a wonderful time, but there was a military school aspect to that. And so every Sunday we would do parades and you have to stand at attention, sometimes in the heat for quite some time. So let me tell you, as a child, seven years old is as young as they get here. Right. To stand still.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
yeah like i just yeah i can see how maybe a ton of them just kind of fell to the ground passed out how hot was this day i did look into that and i don't have the specific historical data for that particular day there's just not a lot of information around 1980 and july specifically but on average looking at july in england the temperatures are honestly not too bad they have some humid days some hot days that is true this is the dead of summer
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
But historically, in temperatures being of Fahrenheit, I believe it's pushing 70 on average. And nothing in any of the research that we saw indicated that this was a particularly blustery hot day. This was pretty average. But I love where your head's at, though, because that's kind of where my gut went. But none of the theories really talk about, you know, heat stroke or anything like that.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Wonderful question. Let's continue to explore. It's 10.30 a.m., the inspections are still going on, and this is when students begin collapsing on the field. Now, according to Terry Bingham, one of the adults alongside of one of the marching bands, "...we were ready for the display when one or two children collapsed. Then a few more went, and a few more."
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And as they continued to reflect on the scene at hand as these kids are falling, he almost likens them to bowling pins, saying that they, quote, fell like nine pins, end quote. So it started to become very dramatic as it seems like by all accounts, one or two children passed out. And from there, it was a domino effect across the field.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
That's a great clarifying question. So it sounded like it more it's more that they fell just directly to the ground that they didn't like catch themselves, nor did they fall into one another. It's that it was kind of localized to one or two. And then from across the field, almost maybe with an eyesight of one another, they then began to fall. Interesting.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So it was across the whole field, not like emanating from an epicenter outwards or into one another. Just double clarifying that because then that would be like a whole new... Right, you're like, what happened right there? Yeah, a whole can of worms. Yeah. Okay.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
So of course, soon hereafter, both children and adults begin collapsing on the field itself where the marching bands are, but also on the sidelines where the spectators are. One of the affected adults actually went so far as to say, and this was Margaret Pailthorpe, one of the parents, she said, quote, "'I collapsed and then lost the use of one of my arms.'"
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
In 1980, dozens of children suddenly collapsed during a marching band event in a quiet English village. The symptoms were real, but the cause was never found, leading to theories of toxins, radio waves, aliens, and more. Today, we investigate the mysterious Holland Well incident. This is Red Web.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And so I'm trying to figure out through all these accounts, as they are fainting and collapsing, are they fully going unconscious? Are they just falling? And it's really hard to tell. It seems that some people are truly fainting and some people are collapsing, maybe out of sort of weakness, but still conscious enough to be like, well, I can't feel my arm or I can't move my arm.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And pretty quickly, it seemed that more and more children were collapsing, some even as they tried to help up their friends. They're saying, oh my gosh, Timmy, you fell. And they themselves fall prey to whatever is happening. But then also adults too. And adults. And it doesn't stop there.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Exactly. And new symptoms started appearing as people began to vomit. They said they were suffering from sore throats, dizziness, watery eyes, and then general weakness across the body. And less commonly, there were reports of people being inflicted with, like I said before, Mrs. Pailthorpe had limbs going numb.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Others were saying that there was a metallic taste in their mouths and in the air there was this smell of bleach. And so it started with what seemed like just straightforward fainting, things that we can explain from our gut inclinations, right? But then suddenly it really started to spread into, okay, now people are vomiting. Now people are smelling stuff. Right.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And it wasn't a shared, like, synonymous symptoms ring. Like, some people felt something, some people had the taste, some people were vomiting, some people were passing out. So it was just this ultimate collection of odd things happening on the field all at once.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
A hundred percent. We're totally going to talk about that. That is one of the leading theories on this particular case. But there's some frustrating elements to that as it was being investigated.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Absolutely. I love where your head's at. We're totally going to explore that top to bottom. But the symptoms don't stop here. Enid Holmes, who was a secretary for one of the schools, actually said when reporting on this incident after, she said that she, quote, noticed some children had blebs on their backs and legs, end quote. What are blebs? Great question. So blebs...
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
The English have all these fun terms and slang and lingo. I had to look this up myself. Yeah. I was like, what the heck is a bleb? It doesn't sound good. I was like, what are these blobs you're talking about? So blebs are a simple way to talk about blisters. Okay. Like watery blisters, things like that. Again, ultimately, not every victim experienced every symptom shared across the crowd.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Some were fainting, some were vomiting, some had these blebs, etc. And the marching event, of course, had to be called off as many of these victims began needing direct medical attention. So, you were kind of getting at it before, here's the number. In total, 259 children were taken to four different hospitals. Nine of those children had to stay overnight.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
And outside of the children, there were 15 adults who suffered from this sudden mysterious sickness, as well as, unfortunately, two infants. And it was really hard to figure out the age of these. So it was by one source in particular, the 14 times that we found the ages, but one was two weeks old and one was three weeks old. So these were very young babies also impacted by whatever this was.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Let's blast these kids here with this. Maybe we can make some superheroes out of this radio wave blast to these kids.
Red Web
Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yep, that's one of the popular ones. We'll get into all that. But kind of in closing this background, because it really isn't a whole lot more. There were rumors at the time that even nearby horses were affected by this unexplained illness, but there's not been a lot of evidence to prove this particular point.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Additionally, it was reported, again, depending on the source, that on the 16th, just a few days later, four workers just a few miles north also collapsed with similar symptoms. All the while, we're talking about these nine students who had to stay overnight at the hospital.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
A couple of them, I believe it was like four or five, had to be re-emitted to the hospital because they once again re-experienced these original symptoms even days later. And so there are a few echoes of whatever happened here happening later on in this timeline, whatever it was.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
Yeah, it does. Okay. A lot of obvious answers come to mind, right? We've already addressed two of the loud ones. I think toxins is certainly one of the leading theories. We'll talk about the wrinkles that show up in the investigation. But of course, like the gut instinct of, okay, is heat stroke to blame? Is it because these kids are standing for a long period of time?
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
It feels easily understood, but there's a lot of evidence demonstrably debunking these otherwise simple and straightforward theories. So with that, I want to explore all the theories behind this strange affliction and get your thoughts because there's a few other ones that do uncover some interesting thoughts. But again, they all have wrinkles. So let's dive in.
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Hollinwell Incident | What Caused 200+ Children to Suddenly Collapse?
This episode of Red Web is sponsored by Shopify. Task Force, if you shopped online, I'm just gonna say it, chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify. And if you've ever seen that purple shop pay button when you're checking out, you know, the one that makes buying so incredibly easy, well, that's also Shopify, baby.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es ist der Anfang der Forschung und Entwicklung der ersten Adopter. Ich denke, du hast es am besten gesagt. Aber zurück zu diesem Flugzeug, weißt du, die meisten der Flugzeuge gingen wie erwartet. Und wiederum, sie wurden um 5.45 Uhr angekommen. Und um 5.41 Uhr, nur vier Minuten vor dem Landungszeitpunkt, der Radio-Operator an ihrer Destination. Richtig. Also das ist in Chile.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das ist der Los Rios Flughafen. Sie erhalten eine Botschaft von diesem Flugzeug in Morse Code. Die Botschaft sagte folgendes, Quote, ETA Santiago 1745 Stunden, Stendek. Richtig, also 1745 Stunden, Stendek, alles selbst. Stendek. Nun, natürlich, der Radiooperator am Flughafen war ein bisschen verwirrt, was das letzte Wort bedeutet.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und so haben sie die Flugzeuge wieder gefragt, sie haben gesagt, hey, kannst du die letzte Wortmeldung dieses letzten Messages wiederholen? Und das, denke ich, ist das, was viele der Mysterien hier resolidiert. Wiederum kam der Morse-Code zurück und sagte, wiederholen, Quote, Stendek, Period. Stendek. Sie sagten also nicht nur Stendek, sondern sie haben es wiederholt, sie haben es wiedereröffnet.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und ich möchte, dass Sie daran denken, wenn die Theorien ankommen, denn es fühlt sich definitiv so an, als ob das das Intentionale ist, was sie versuchen, zu sagen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Genau, genau, wie SOS ist kurz. Ich weiß nicht, ob sie das für Flugzeuge nutzen, um ehrlich zu sein, aber SOS ist kurz für diesen Grund, richtig? Aber der Fakt, dass sie sagen, hey, ETA, wir kommen in vier Minuten. Ja. Ich meine, Hilfe. Ja, richtig. Ja, genau. Stendeck ist nicht das kürzeste Wort.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Glaubst du, das ist Superman's größte Angst? Er nimmt auf. Er ist so, ich höre einen Jungen in einem Wellen irgendwo. Weil das ist mein Verständnis von Superman. Und er nimmt auf, um den Tag zu retten. Er windet irgendwo im Pazifik. Lost at Cthulhu's grip. He probably lasered Cthulhu's arms off with little tentacles. Wir wissen das nicht, okay?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Richtig, Hilfe, Hilfe, schreien, ja, generell. Aber ja, das wäre die letzte Kommunikation, die jemand von der Flugzeuge Stardust erhalten würde. An official investigation by his majesty's stationary office in England was launched on this.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
And the investigation took into account several different factors, including the pilot backgrounds, the weather, the route taken, the plane model, all of those good things that you would expect. And ultimately, his majesty's stationary office concluded, quote, End quote.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Aber ich bin mir sicher, dass wir uns in das Government Cover-Up befinden werden. Oh, wir werden alles darüber reden. Ich würde sagen, dass dieses Flugzeug in der Verteidigung begonnen wurde, in den frühen 40ern, ich glaube, 1943. Und es wurde also ein paar Jahre lang versucht und getestet. Und um ehrlich zu sein, haben wir an diesem Punkt für mindestens ein paar Jahrhunderte geflogen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und einige bedeutende, wie... Propeller oder Jet Propulsion Art und Weise, äh, nicht zu sprechen in den Wright Brothers Art und Weise, wie wir ein Airfoil haben und wir können für 100, ja, Buzz Lightyear gliedern. Aber ja, ich meine, absolut, wenn du sagst, dass die frühen Adopter, es werden definitiv einige Dinge sein werden, die Flugzeuge an dieser Zeit mehr gewohnt waren als Flugzeuge jetzt.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und ich würde sagen, die Instrumentation ist, wo ich deine Meinung gehen möchte, weil das ist, glaube ich, Wo die größten Fehler sind, weniger physisch mit den Ailerons und Wingen und so, aber aber ehrlich gesagt ist Eisung immer noch ein schweres Problem, richtig?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das ist der Grund, warum Planen gedelayt werden, sie werden de-eist, all diese guten Sachen, weil du all die Teile benötigst, um zu bewegen und zu funktionieren, wie erwartet.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, absolut. Instrumente, die immer wieder geupdatet werden, neue Technologien. Und ich glaube, eine der Flugzeugverluste, die wir vorhin gesprochen haben, richtig? Wir haben sogar, dank Christian, es auf dem Flugzeug angeschaut. Wann hat Sonar angefangen, mehr Teil der Bildung zu werden? Weil das ist etwas, was wir jetzt nicht wahrnehmen. Oder DNA oder X-Rays oder all that sort of stuff.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das war's für heute. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Ja. So, if you are growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever the customers are scrolling and strolling, whether it's on the web, in your store, or on their feed, you know, everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more, sell with Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout that Magic Spoon uses.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Er ist ein interdimensionales Wesen, er könnte... Wahrscheinlich! Könnte er ein Kryptoniter werden. Ein reiner Kryptoniter. Nun, dieser Geheimnis, dankbar, wird nicht über den Ozean geschehen, weil... Mann, äh... Gehend am Meer zu verlieren, ob du auf einem Boot, einem Flugzeug oder nur einem Mann mit einem Paddelbord bist, wäre tieflich furchtbar. Was heißt das? Thalassophobie?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash redweb, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash redweb to upgrade your selling today. shopify.com slash redweb This episode of Red Web is sponsored by BetterHelp. Think about all your favorite mentors or leaders and idols, right?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
They don't have all the answers all the time, but they do know when to ask questions or seek support from their community. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget that we're all better when we have a support system behind us. Therapy can be a source of support for any area in your life.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
It's time to shift focus from doing it all to knowing that we're better when we ask for help. I appreciate BetterHelp's ability to make therapy more approachable because therapy is a helpful tool for learning positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, learning about yourself and how to accommodate for all of life's curveballs.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
And BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. Das ist BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash RedWeb. So at this point the plane is disappeared. We have this mysterious message and the plane, I need to re-emphasize, it is gone for 51 years. This plane is, we don't know where it is until 1998. 51 years it's gone.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
So I think that's another reason why the foundation for this mystery has been so strong. Im November 1998 treckten zwei argentinische Climber den Mount Tupungato in den Andes, also 50 Meilen oberhalb von Santiago, Chile. Wie man erwartet, wenn man den Flugweg platzt, geht es so nahe.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich musste auf die Maps gehen und begannen zu triangulieren, um zu sehen, ob das mit dem Zeitrahmen zusammenhängt, ob das mit ihrem Flugweg zusammenhängt, und es funktioniert. Und es scheint, dass diese Climber den Berg hochladen. Das ist nur etwas, was sie normalerweise tun.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und während sie das tun, stürmen sie auf zerstörte Teile von Kleidung, endlich ein gestorbenes Motorrad und dann Teile von gebrochenem Metall. Also denken sie, das ist seltsam. Ich weiß nicht, warum wir Kleidung und Metall in einem Motorrad sehen. Und sie haben dann diese Erkenntnis gemacht, als sie den Tupungato Glacier erreicht haben, der an einer Höhe von 15.000 Metern ist.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Jetzt, als wir kurz zurückkehren. Die Andes-Mountain, wie gesagt, sind ziemlich hoch. Und diese Mountain, über die wir reden, ist einer der höchsten in den Andes-Mountain. Sie steigt auf 21.560 Meter. Und noch einmal, um zu erläutern, die operative Fläche von Stardust war 25.000 Meter.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Die Angst vor dem offenen Ozean und der tiefen Wasser? Ja, ich meine, es ist furchtbar.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also, du weißt, wenn wir vor Ort radioen und sagen, dass wir in etwa vier Minuten landen werden, musst du dir vorstellen, dass wir in einem Raum sind, in dem das Flugzeug jetzt nach unten kommt. Und wenn sie an diesen Bergen nahe sind, kann man bereits anfangen, die unfreundliche Umstände zu beschreiben.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Absolut. Und ich möchte, dass du darüber nachdenkst, denn als wir in die Theorien gehen, werden wir eine mehr vividere Bildung darstellen, was dort passiert ist. Eine der Theorien, die ich glaube, wirklich auf die Grund, weshalb sie zerbrachen, einbezieht. Wieder einmal, wir werden über Stendeck-Theorien und Zerbrach-Theorien sprechen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Diese zwei Climber haben ihre Erfindungen den Behörden veröffentlicht, aber initiale Suche musste durch verschiedene Gründe gedelayt werden. Natürlich haben wir das schon gesehen, aber es ist eine remote Location. Das Wetter damals war besonders unklimatisch. Es gab einen Eis-Sturm, also hat das einige Beläufe verursacht.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und natürlich gab es einige initiale Ängste über die Authentizität dieser Erfindung. Nach 51 Jahren werden die Behörden nicht sagen, lasst uns auf die Spitze springen, gehen wir zu dieser remote Location während eines Sturms. Also gibt es einige Gründe, warum es gedelayt wurde, aber es war nicht wegen der Unwahrheit, um zu investigieren. Ich würde sagen, oder nicht. Ja.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Wir haben ein Flugzeug gefunden.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und versuchen zu finden, Ist das das Flugzeug, über das wir reden? Welches Flugzeug ist das, richtig? Entschuldigung, zwei Jahre später? Es hat zwei Jahre gedauert, um das Wetter zu öffnen? Es hat ein bisschen Zeit gedauert, um das Wetter genau richtig zu machen, für diese remote Expedition, glaube ich.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Nein. Nein. Also, das hier geht stark über den Boden. Aber das ist, wo der Boden auf die Flugzeuge kommt. Das wird eigentlich sehr ähnlich sein wie das, was wir vor ein paar Wochen, im Januar, besprochen haben. EAL-Flight 980. Es geht in Südamerika um. Wir arbeiten immer noch mit den Andes-Mountain, die, wie Sie vielleicht wissen, die westliche Küste des gesamten Kontinents läuft.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Hör auf, hör auf, wenn du warten musst, bis die Titanen schlumpfen, musst du tun, was du tun musst. Das ist wahr, aber... Verdammt, zwei Jahre?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, ich meine, fair genug. Ich fühle mich, dass mein Instinkt das gleiche sagt. Ich sah das gleiche in EAL Flight 980.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es scheint nur zwei Jahre lang zu sein. Ja, ich meine, wir haben es auch in EAL Flight 980 gesehen. Da ist viel Gefahr und du willst nicht, dass mehr Leute weggehen. Also Januar 2000. Sie gehen da raus. Nun, die Armee-Expedition hat Propellern gefunden und eine geflaggerte Schraube des Landungsgerätes von diesem Flugzeug. Das ist, wie sie es helfen konnten, es zu identifizieren.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und ich habe ein Bild davon für dich. Es ist ein Bild, das sie von der Schraube genommen haben, als sie es gefunden haben. Und du kannst sehen, dass es ähnlich ist. Ja, zu den anderen. Verdammt, das Ding hat sich gehalten. Ich weiß, richtig?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es sieht ziemlich gut aus. Ich hätte erwartet, dass es flat Rubber und all das ist. Du weißt, gebrochene Rubber, aber es sieht voll inflatiert aus. Aber in Bezug auf diese beiden Items haben sie auch menschliche Erwachsenen gefunden. Und weil wir hier am Ende des Jahrhunderts sind, konnten sie ein paar DNA-Testungen machen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und es wurde in der Jahre 20, ich möchte immer noch sagen 20, 2002 bestätigt, dass die DNA aus den verschiedenen Bleiben von fünf der Leute an Bord gehörte. Also, von all dem konnten sie bestätigen, dass, ja, das ist der Crash, der zu Stardust gehörte. Ich liebe es, dass wir das bestätigen können.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, ja. Das wird nicht passieren. Es meldet sich hinunter und wächst in einen Planeten, der Planeten wächst. Ja, ja. So, as I kind of hinted at up into this point, as we approach the theories, I want to break it into two halves, which is kind of abnormal for us. There are two different angles to look at. Of course, we have a plane descending on approach as mountainous terrain rises to meet them.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
So this does set up a difficult position for any pilots, whether they're unfamiliar or not. We'll talk about that in the second half of the theories. Why did they crash? Aber natürlich haben wir das mysteriöse Radiosignal, Stendek. Was bedeutet das? Was versuchten sie zu erläutern? Was war der Radio-Operator, den sie zum Flughafen senden? War es etwas Normales, erwartet?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Oder war es etwas ein bisschen mehr furchtbar? War es ein Broadcast, etwas, was man für furchtbar ist? War es eine Erkrankung, wie Sie es bezeichneten? Und weil das der größte Teil der Geschichte ist, möchte ich zuerst darüber nachdenken, was Stendek ist.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
So now that we've gone over some of the information, stenciled December in our rearview mirror, does anything jump out at you knowing a little bit more about this plane's route, maybe other things that they had said that it gives you, I'm setting you up for failure a little bit, but do you have any inclination just as like some virgin eyes on this mystery?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und es ist ein sehr interessanter. Nun, ich werde sagen, direkt aus der Tür, so wie wir es in der Hook gesprochen haben. Wenn wir zu den Theorien kommen, werden es zwei Angeln geben. Wir werden über den Unfall sprechen, von dem ich denke, dass wir eine klare Verständnis haben, was da runtergegangen wäre. Aber das, was noch das größte Geheimnis ist, ist, was diese Radio-Message war.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Hundertprozentig, weißt du, wenn ich es anschaue und ich bin froh, dass du es ausgetauscht hast, weil ich denke, es ist wichtig, es zu sehen, um wirklich zu helfen. Mein Gehirn fühlt sich so nah an etwas, richtig? Und ich denke, ich habe gerade geklopft, was ich denke, mein Gehirn will es sein. Ich denke, Stand Deck macht mich fühlen, als ob es sagt Standard Descent. Oh. Oh, yeah, I like that.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Let me give you some background. Just a few weeks prior to the Stardust crash, the world was made witness to the Roswell incident. I think that's important to know. So this occurred in New Mexico in July of 1947, just a few weeks prior.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
And coupling the recency of this incident with the strange nature of the disappearing flight that said Stendeck and disappeared, rumors at the time of this incident began to swirl, right? That aliens might have swooped down and abducted this aircraft, leading to the completion Man, that's that is the NFL scripted or not kind of logic where you go, well, that makes sense.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
And you start to get like super deep on it. Ich liebe es, diese Debatten zu hören. Und ich habe kein Pferd im Rennen. Aber ja, was, wenn sie verabschiedet wurden und Aliens nach 51 Jahren sagten, wir müssen es zurückziehen. Es gibt einige Hiker da. Legt es direkt vor ihnen. Legt es direkt da. Und dann schauen sie einfach, oh, sie haben es gefunden. Sie haben es gefunden.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und dann sind sie so, warte, sie investigieren nicht für zwei Jahre. Die Aliens warten darauf. Aber es gibt keine andere Beweise davon, dass es ein extraterrestrisches Event ist. Und der Fakt, dass es seitdem gefunden wurde, zieht ein bisschen Öl aus der Theorie. Aber es ist eine lustige.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Wir sind hier, Aliens sind da. Welchen weinenden Weg oder geringen Weg nehmen wir?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
How did we get there? Stitch this together for me. Yeah, listen, I love me a good juicy theory and Task Force, you know I'm desperate for the goodness that's going to prove it, because, you know, let's just face it, we want them to be out there. We don't want them to be vicious. No. We want them to be out there.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Was ist S-T-E-N-D-E-C und was bedeutet das? Und es gibt einige wirklich kompelte... Ich muss das auswählen. Auswählen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Okay, now, moving on, this is one of the most popular theories around Stendek, and it's the Anagram Theory, and Oh, die sind alle so kompensierend. Okay, also diese Theorie zeigt das Wort Stendek. Wenn man Tom Riddle-Style wiederholt, bekommt man das Wort Descent. D-E-S-C-E-N-T. Oh. Warum schreibst du das so? Ich weiß, ich weiß.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Der Grund dafür ist, dass die Crew von Hypoxia verletzt werden könnte, wenn sie 24.000 m lang fliegen würde. Hypoxia ist ein Verhältnis, das auf hohen Höhen stattfindet, wo das Körper nicht genug Öl in seine Tissue bekommt. Es kann zu allen Arten von Dingen führen, aber primär für den Zweck dieser Theorie sind Dinge wie Schwierigkeit beim Atmen, Verwirrung, Verlust des Bewusstseins.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und wenn du in diesem träumenden Zustand bist, kannst du stattdessen... Ich sage Dissens als Teil meiner normalen Botschaft, aber ich sage eigentlich Stendek. The crew did have their own supplies of oxygen and so that should have been able to solve any sort of situation having to do with hypoxia if it occurred.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
But in addition to that, what stands out to me is the fact that they then reiterated that same message twice. If this was confusion and they scrambled it by accident, the fact that they scrambled it the same way two more times does... It's a good answer. I love it. But I don't know if it's clicking with me.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Er hat es nur einmal richtig geschrieben, weil dann der Radioleiter einfach sagt, oh, ich meine, er fragt, was es sagt. Ich sage es einfach wieder.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Jetzt ist das, weshalb ich aufgeregt werde, weil das Theorie wirklich kompensierend ist. Ich mag es. Richtig. Der nächste ist nur so kompensierend. Und dann der dritte ist, weißt du, es ist interessant. Aber okay, lasst uns einsteigen. While it's unclear exactly what the pilot might have been trying to say, Stendeck is very similar in Morse Code to other messages.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
So remember, Morse Code is a series of dots and dashes that represent Latin alphabet, as we know it, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, all that good stuff. And it is a series of beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, right? And I don't know what I just said, but spaces are important.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und wenn man die Spiele umdreht, könnte eine Karte für eine Karte nicht zu der vorherigen Karte verabschiedet werden, oder eine Karte könnte sich wechseln, oder was auch immer, was dich mit verschiedenen Karten verleihen würde, als was du vielleicht geplant hättest. Und so ist die Idee hier, dass es eine Ververstärkung gab zwischen entweder dem Sender oder dem Receiver,
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
What jumps out to you? Stendek.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Denn Stendeck ist ähnlich, wenn nicht nahezu identisch mit dem Wort S-C-T-I-dash-A-R im Morse Code. In der Tat benutzen sie die gleiche .dash-Sequenz, aber sie benötigt eine andere Spannung zwischen den Charakteren. Stendeck equals SCTI dash AR. Why is this important? What is this theory asking for here?
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Well, SCTI is the airport code for Los Rios Airport in Chile, which would have been the final destination of this aircraft. Und AR ist Morse Code für Over. Also wenn du eine Radio-Gespräch sendest, kannst du das K-K-K-Over hören, das das Ende eines Textes signifiziert, richtig? Also mit diesem in der Hand... Oh, das passt sehr gut zusammen. Das passt sehr gut zusammen.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich hoffe, dass ich das richtig erklärt habe. Morse Code ist mir nicht bekannt, aber im Grunde genommen, wenn man die Späße bewegt, wird Stendeck in S-C-T-I-A-R. Also war die erste Botschaft ETA Santiago 1745 Stunden Stendek und jetzt, unter dieser Theorie, wird es ETA Santiago 1745 Stunden Los Rios Flughafen. Das muss es sein, oder?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
It could be that the person receiving it just heard a space where one shouldn't be. It could be the person that was sending the radio signal was, I'm just guessing, maybe put the space in the wrong place, which gave them completely different letters. Therefore it scrambled it. But I'm surprised that somebody who is fluent in Morse Code didn't maybe...
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
We're in. We're about to crack this case, Task Force.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
pick that up and shift it in their mind into something that makes more sense. Because I don't know what the standard call would be on something like this, if it's normal to end with Los Rios Airport over. But Stendeck doesn't seem to be a standard call, right? No.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Richtig, sie schlafen nur für einen Sekunden und der A wird ein F, weißt du?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
I think it's just getting really good at it. I watched a video and maybe I was incredibly bored or maybe I was incredibly interested, but I watched a video of this man who taught himself Morse code. And the idea was, you know, you start out slow, you start out trying to memorize each of the patterns. And so the beep, beep, beep and the beep, beep, beep, they're different and more obvious.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
So when you get to the point where you can recognize them, you can speed it up, right? Because I didn't start talking like this as a two-year-old.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
It wasn't until 3 that I started reading Shakespeare, but language speeds up and so I imagine the same happens with Morse Code, but it does seem to be a flaw in the plan when a beep can move this way or that or be a dash.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Okay, we got Stencil in December. Listen, if you just crack the case at the very top, Wir werden alle sehr beeindruckt. Ja, ich glaube es. Aber halten Sie sich an, denn das ist der Krux dieses bestimmten Geheimnis. Es ist der eine, der am meisten unbekannt bleibt. Und ehrlich gesagt, wird es wahrscheinlich nie bekannt sein. Aber es gibt einige sehr kompelte Theorien dahinter. Es ist Morse-Code.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Richtig, richtig. Lass mich das noch einmal sagen. Ich denke, ich war zu kurz, weißt du, auf der Klammer, auf dem einen Teil. Mit dem in Gedanken, aber in dieser Theorie gibt es noch einen Missverständlichkeitspunkt. Und das sagt, dass Stendek, überraschend, nur ein Charakter von der Worte V.A.L.P. ist.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und warum das wichtig ist, ist, weil das der Flughafencode für den Valparaiso Flughafen ist, der 58 Meilen nach Westen von Santiago. Und vielleicht waren sie die Veränderung der Locationen. Aber wiederum sagten sie ETA Santiago. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob VALP einer ist. Aber es macht mich Fragen. Wenn Stendeck ein Typo entfernt von zwei ziemlich bedeutenden Antworten ist,
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es ist entweder eine verletzte Sprache, oder es ist nur wirklich ungeheuer, dass Stendek einfach so nah ist. Oder vielleicht suchen wir Antworten, und wir haben die zwei naheste Möglichkeiten gefunden.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Einerseits denke ich, dass der Los Rios Flughafen am besten Sinn macht. Es ist ein gemühtes Raum. Es ist der einfachste Unfall. Wir mögen den Occam's Razor. Wenn das hier angepasst wird, dann boom. Es nimmt die meisten Überraschungen aus der Equation. Das ist die einfachste Antwort. Aber mit dem gesagt, gibt es noch eine Theorie.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und das Problem mit dieser Theorie ist, denke ich, ziemlich offensichtlich, aber wir gehen weiter. Es wurde also spekuliert, dass Stendeck, anstatt ein Anagramm oder ein Miss-Type, wie wir es schon gesprochen haben, eigentlich ein Akronym für etwas ist. Und hier kann man vielleicht sehen, dass alle Art von Akronymen hergestellt werden können. Wir haben am Anfang unsere eigenen angefangen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Aber einige der populärsten sind Stardust Tank Empty No Diesel Expected Crash. Ein weiterer ist Santiago Tower Emergency Now Descending Entering Cloud. Und letztlich gibt es einen, der vermutlich ein Code war, der während der 2. Weltkriege genutzt wurde, obwohl andere gesagt haben, dass dies in keinem Fall der 2. Weltkriegs-Era-Code ist. Aber egal.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das Akronym ist Severe Turbulence Encountered Now Descending Emergency Crash Landing. Also, du kannst sehen, wie viel Vielfalt du mit einem Akronym machen kannst, um den Fall zu finden. Ja.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also, du weißt, es gibt... A few different ways to cut it. But before we dive into this episode and all the information that might clarify what Stendeck could mean, I want to give a huge shout out to our Task Force members over at redwebpod.com, supporting us directly on our Patreon page. We have Kat Stirr from the Task Force. We have Hannah Banana from the Elite Squad.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, es fühlt sich wie eine Manual-Sache an, richtig? Aber ich weiß nicht, ich denke immer noch, Missinterpretation, ich denke, es schafft es. Ich denke, das ist die eine. Ja. Okay, also gehen wir jetzt zu den Crash-Theorien. Es gibt zwei Hauptgründe hier und ich wette, ihr könnt einen auswählen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Aber während des Crashs begannen einige andere Gerüchte, dass das Flugzeug für verschiedene Gründe für die Passagiere auf dem Flugzeug verschwunden war. Manche spekulierten, dass die Verschwörung mit den Dokumenten zu tun hatte, die der Königsmessenger damals mitgebracht hatte.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Andere begannen zu glauben, dass es vielleicht etwas mit dem palästinensischen Mann zu tun hatte, mit den Geheimdiensten, die in seinem Jackett geschnitten wurden. Und dann, natürlich, gab es die deutsch geborene Frau, die auch an Bord war, und viele begannen zu spekulieren, dass sie ein Nazi-Kriminal war, der die Krieg flieh. Einerseits...
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
All of these little pseudo theories or sub theories start to build a story based on a lot of assumptions. We don't know anything about a diamond. We don't know anything about secret documents. We don't know anything about Nazis fleeing the war. Because none of these were confirmed. But these are rumors that were spurred on at the time and have since... Und das ist die letzte Theorie.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und ich denke, dass diese eine viele wichtige Informationen erläutert. Diese letzte Theorie kommt von Experten, nachdem sie das Verbrechen von Stardust zurückgebracht haben. Diese Theorie sagt, dass das Flugzeug in einem Jetstream gefangen wurde. Und nach der Erfahrung von schlechten Wetterbedingungen, hat es die Piloten nicht gewusst, wo sie waren.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und sie begannen tatsächlich, in eine Position zu landen, in der sie nicht bereit waren. Also, im Grunde genommen blinden sie den Schneesturm. Sie verlangen auf Instrumenten. Das Wetter spielt mit diesen Instrumenten. Also, Forscher haben sich seitdem die Wetterbedingungen des Abends angeschaut. Und es wurde herausgefunden, dass ein Schneesturm in diesem Bereich stattfand.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Dies hätte die Piloten in extrem dünnen Flüssen mit wenig bis keine Sichtbarkeit verletzt. Dies führte dann Experten dazu, zu glauben, dass die Piloten dort in der Luft waren, weil sie die Erde nicht sehen konnten, um diese Location zu beurteilen oder zu verurteilen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es wird weiter theorisiert, dass die Piloten wegen des Sturms in eine so genannte Jetstream-Zone eingestiegen sind, in der sie stärkere Winde verursachen. In den 40ern, in der frühen Adopter-Ära, waren diese Jetstreams nicht so gut verstanden, wie sie die Instrumente angehen würden. Es gibt viele Pito-Türen und andere Dinge auf der Außenwelt, die Druck messen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Von der Druck kann man die Geschwindigkeitsinformationen und andere Daten, wie die Höhe und so weiter, sammeln. Und wenn sie einen Hechtwind gefunden hätten, einen besonders schnellen Hechtwind besonders, würde es das Instrument, das die Grundgeschwindigkeit zeigt, eine langsamere Geschwindigkeit erzeugen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Wenn sie das gemacht hätten, wenn die Grundgeschwindigkeit langsamer als normal war, dann hätten die Piloten vielleicht gedacht, oh cool, das ist gut zu wissen, weil wir jetzt die Andes-Mountain beendet haben und jetzt können wir unseren Abflug beginnen. So basically this headwind blasted them, made the instrument show an indication that they were past the mountains.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Tay McLean, a buff scientist, rippling brain muscles, you know. And of course, our monthly shoutouts from the Squonk tier. We've got Broman, Clint from PS3, and Tucker did it, just to name a few of our illustrious melty Squonks. And I also want to give a shoutout to Krob1290, because Fredo, as you might know, we have a submission form, and anybody in the Task Force can submit a
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Now the ground speed, as you can kind of imagine, it's essentially the speed of the aircraft in relation to the ground, not the air, not the airspeed. And pilots tend to know the ground speed for different legs of the flight. And so they go, okay, cool, the ground speed is what it should be, let's start descending.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das hätte sie zu einem frühen Abflug in Santiago geführt, das wäre das, wo die Berge waren. Die Berge waren immer noch auf Höhe. Die Bedeutung des Landungsgerätes, als das Flugzeug gefunden wurde, als dieser Unfall beurteilt wurde, zeigte, dass das Landungsgerät noch nicht geöffnet wurde.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und so, jede Theorie, wenn es um eine emergency Landung geht, um auf dieser Berge zu landen, geht aus dem Fenster, wenn du dein Landungsgerät nicht verlassen hast. Ohne, dass sie versucht haben zu landen, und sie waren gefroren oder so. Diese Theorie geht aus dem Fenster.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Außerdem, wenn das Flugzeug in einen vertikalen Glacier fliegte, würde das sofort ein Avalanche triggeren, welches dann das Flugzeug besitzen würde, welches dann jede Beweise des Flugs für eine Weile verstecken würde. Vielleicht ist das, weshalb wir nicht alle Beweise haben. Wir haben nicht alle Flugzeuge und vielleicht werden wir es sehen, sobald die Dinge weiter melden.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, ich meine, egal ob globaler Erwärmung oder nur natürliche Veränderungen im Eis, das Eis wächst und wächst zurück und forth mit den Saisonen, wie du weißt. Aber bis 2021, ja, hat sich nur 10 Prozent dieses Wachstums entdeckt. Und so sind Experten Ja, also Experten beweisen den Fakt, dass ja, wir denken, dass vielleicht einige davon gebürtigt ist.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und sobald die Dinge weitergehen und die Glacier bewegt, meldet oder so weiter, werden wir vielleicht mehr Aufmerksamkeit bekommen. Aber ja, das Jahr 2000 war das Jahr, in dem die argentinische Luftwaffe ihre offizielle Befragung beendet hat. Sie regierten, dass der Grund für den Unfall wahrscheinlich wegen des schweren Schneesturms an der Zeit war und dass es schwierige Flugbedingungen bietet.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also, wie gesagt, wir haben hier eine Antwort. Es gibt einige Theorien rund um die Antwort, aber wirklich ist der Krux der Frage, was ist Stendek? Und für mich, ich fühle mich, als wäre es die Missverständlichkeitstheorie. Aber ich bin gespannt auf deine letzten Gedanken hier, Fredo.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und dann Stendek zu sein, ich weiß nicht, nur ein Typo, weißt du?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, ich denke, wir haben das in einigen anderen Fällen gesehen, ob es der Bermuda-Triangle ist, wenn wir über das ganze Platoon von Flugzeugen sprechen. Wir haben über Dinge gesprochen, die am Abend fliegen. Wir haben darüber gesprochen, dass wir jetzt in hohe-Altitude-Terrain crashen. Wiederum, Stendek ist interessant.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich denke, es ist das, was das wirklich in mehr der Mysteriesphäre geäußert hat, in Zuge dessen, dass es nur für mehrere Jahrhunderte nicht entdeckt wurde. Aber ich denke, wir haben eine Antwort hier. Und ich denke, was... Ich denke auch, dass wir eine Antwort auf das Stendek-Ding haben. Das ist meine Meinung.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
movie for movie club a topic for us to cover here on the podcast or things to do in the discord events but krab submitted this one via the poll it then won in front of uh i think we did an aviation themed poll so a bunch of different aviation themes after eal everyone was like you gotta do more planes and uh so we're doing it and task force voted on this one so submitted by task force voted by task force
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Aber ich denke, was das so schrecklich macht, ist, dass es fühlt sich so an, als würde es jederzeit passieren. Aber es ist auch viel mehr passiert, als wir viel mehr von Instrumenten fliegen, als wir es brauchten. Und wir sind es immer noch, aber wir haben mehr Instrumente.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und du siehst das in vielen Plane-Verlusten, wo Piloten ihre Instrumente vertrauen, die sie entweder nicht sehen können, weil es nachts am Ozean ist, wo die Horizonte anders aussehen können. Wenn man in einen Todsspiral fährt, kann man denken, man fliegt horizontal und direkt und, weißt du, versucht und wahr, aber man ist tatsächlich gedreht und fährt nach unten und man hat keine Ahnung.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und ich denke, die einzige Leidenschaft in einem Moment wie diesem ist, dass das Flugzeug hart und plötzlich fliegt. Und so ist es wie eine Zwischenzeit.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und so, weißt du, wenn es passieren wird, hoffentlich ist niemand furchtbar oder in Schmerzen. Aber gleichzeitig kann es sehr furchtbar sein. Und ich denke, es gibt viel mehr Aufmerksamkeit bei solchen Fällen. Leute, die Angst vor dem Fliegen haben. Leute, die denken, es fühlt sich so an, als würde es jederzeit möglich sein. Natürlich. Aber es ist einer dieser Fälle, die ich denke,
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
wirklich in die Zeitgeist gesunken und ich denke, was wirklich, wie ich gesagt habe, es in die Mysteriessphäre gefeuert, war der Fakt, dass es so bald nach Roswell geschehen ist.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Die Leute wollten, dass sie Aliens waren, sie hatten dieses mysteriöse Message, aber jetzt, seit vielen Jahrhunderten, denke ich, und das ist einer meiner Lieblingspunkte über Mysterien, ist, dass man nach einem Zeitpunkt anfängt, mehr Informationen zu kohlen, man macht Erkenntnisse, man hat stärkere Theorien und ich denke, dass dieser hat eine Antwort, die es hilft,
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich weiß nicht, du erfährst die Erweiterung eines Geheimnisses in eine Lösung.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Richtig. Richtig. Wie wenn du denkst, was ist das? Und dann klingst du einfach wie Looney Tunes oder so. Ja. Nein. Nein. Die Antwort war sehr einfach. Sehr einfach. Oder, weißt du, es gibt Zeiten, wo der Summerton-Mann, ich denke, da ist eine Identität für diesen Mann jetzt. Und es gab nicht viel, worauf man hinkommen sollte.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Einige der Episoden, über die wir reden, haben Updates und es gibt einfach nicht viel, worauf man hinkommen sollte. Aber manchmal ist es so, oh ja, es war der Mann, den viele Leute gedacht haben. Oder manchmal ist es so, nein, ein völlig anderer neuer Mann, aber der Fall ist geschlossen. Aber das ist es, ja.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Well, with this said, thank you again, KROB 1290 and the Task Force at Large, not only for submitting it, but also for voting on this episode. You can do that over at redwebpod.com. We'll post about the submission form to remind you how you can do that. And then hang out with us in the Discord. That's another way to submit that and get a hold of that submission form.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
And now it's time to dive in. You want it, you get it. You're gonna get it. We're also in the midst of March Mystery Madness over on redwoodpod.com. Anybody can go get engaged. So if you guys want to go over there, vote for your favorite mysteries. We're gonna do kind of a March Madness bracket of mysteries we've covered before.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Anything from cryptids to disappearances to things like The Watcher, just like creepy... unscheinbare Dinge, über die wir gesprochen haben. Und wir werden sehen, welches von ihnen das Beste ist. Wir werden sehen, wie das Verteidigungssystem funktionieren kann, weil sonst wird es ein Schmuck sein. Aber kommt da rein. Wir werden alle frei wählen.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
In 1947 fuhr ein kleines Flugzeug aus Buenos Aires, Argentinien, aber es erreichte nie seine letzte Destination. Die Verlustung würde die Welt für Jahrzehnte kümmern, aber die amüsierteste Teil dieses Geheimnis ist die Bedeutung der letzten Worte, die von der Radio sendet, Stendek. Heute diskutieren wir die Beweise und Theorien des Stardust-Anschlags. Das ist Red Web.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das ist nur ein Weg, um mit uns zu hangen und zu unterstützen. Und dann für die bezahlbaren Teile, für alle, die hinter dem Patreon-Wall sind, werden wir einige Bonus-Videos machen, wo wir die Verteidigungsmöglichkeiten des Jungs sind und die Kommentare lesen, um zu vermitteln, um zu vermitteln,
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
pilot beta version of the podcast for years we've wanted to do a video version you've wanted it and now we're doing a video version over on patreon right now uh to see how it goes it's going to change some of the post processing so we need to kind of knock some of the rust off figure things out and so as a thank you for supporting us directly you're going to get to see kind of how the video version goes but with that said fredo you are very close
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
We are going to dive in to the Stardust accident. On August 2nd, 1947, a British South American Airways plane named Stardust departed from Buenos Aires, Argentina. And right out the gate, Fredo, we have an image for you. An image of this plane. So you can know what we're talking about.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich glaube, wenn jemand mir fragt, wie man ein Flugzeug nennt und es cool macht, wie ein Super-Hero-Name, würde ich nicht so nah an Stardust kommen, aber jetzt kann ich nur an Stardust denken.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Dieses Flugzeug landet überall. Du hast eine Backstube, die groß genug ist, hier kommt sie.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Es ist. Es ist das 40er Jahre Flugzeug. Du weißt, wenn du über Leonardo DiCaprio sprichst. Geh' und mach' den Zeit-zu-Film-Ratio hier.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Aber im Aviator, du weißt, wir müssen diese Panele schmutzig machen. Es ist wie in dieser Ära. Du weißt, wir müssen all diese Nuts und Bolzen aus diesem Flugzeug holen. Es muss komplett schmutzig sein.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
I mean, we just did the Jason X Movie Club today to date this. And the only way to convey what was going on in that plot was to pull from like five other films. It's just, it's how I speak, you know?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, jetzt hat Stardust einen sehr coolen Namen. Und der Grund, warum es Stardust genannt wird, ist, weil der BSAA Avro-Lencastrian nicht so lustig klingt oder vielleicht so kommerziell. Aber das ist der Art von Flugzeug, über den wir reden. Und ich glaube, die britische Südamerikaner Flugzeug-Nomenklatur benutzt Star blank.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also gibt es Star Pixie, Star Mentor, Star Monitor, Star Master, was ein bisschen wie ein Workout klingt. Aber es gibt Star was. Und das sind die Namen, die wir suchen. Das Avro-Lencastrian-Fahrzeug fuhr nach Buenos Aires um 1.46 Uhr. Und es war in Santiago, Chile, in 5.45 Uhr lokales Zeit. Also etwa eine Vier-Hour-Fahrt. Nicht zu schlecht. Das ist nicht eine lange Fahrt.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Das Flugzeug führte insgesamt 11 Personen an. Wir hatten sechs Passagiere und fünf Crewmitglieder. Letztendlich hatte dieses Flugzeug eine Führungskapazität zwischen 17 und 19 Personen, also ist es nicht komplett voll. Es ist ein kleiner Flugzeug.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und als wir ein wenig näher geschaut haben, weil wir bemerkt haben, dass viele der Geheimnisse, über die wir gesprochen haben, größere kommerzielle Flugzeuge haben, Aber größere Flugzeuge wurden nicht wirklich bis in die Mitte der 50er-Jahre popularisiert. In den 60ern wurde die Flugzeugtechnologie mehr online. Ja, die Dinge wurden kosteneffektiv.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Die Preise gingen runter und es wurde mehr zugänglich für größere Flugzeuge für mehr Leute.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also 17 bis 19 ist die Kapazität, die es hat. Aber wir haben sechs Passagiere und fünf Crewmitglieder.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich werde sagen, ich bin verletzt von einer domestischen Flugzeuge. Du sitzt da unten, du kriegst ein paar Päckchen, du kriegst ein paar Prezeln. Es ist nicht so, als würdest du dich auf die Hand und den Fuß bewegen. Du hast den Pilot, den Co-Pilot, meistens jemanden, der die Technologie läuft. Wir haben auch jemanden, der im Radio arbeitet.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also glaube ich, dass mindestens drei, vielleicht vier von den Crews auf den Cockpit beteiligt sind und die Sicherheit der Flugzeuge. Und wie wir es in der Zeit kommen, sprechen wir auch über eine Zeit in der Aviation, in der sie wirklich auf ihre Instrumente und was sie sehen müssen. Sie haben nicht so viel Sonar und advanced technology wie wir es jetzt haben, ohne Autopilot.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Nowadays, what's a pilot? You know what I mean? They hit go. Listen, a baby could sit in there. A baby could sit in there. Listen, that's not true. Pilots are incredible, but planes are also very advanced too.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Willkommen zurück, Task Force, zu einem weiteren Red Web-Episode, dem Podcast über Unsolved Mysteries, True Crime und das Supernaturale. Ich bin euer Residenz-Mystery-Enthusiast, Trevor Collins, und ich bin hier, um über diesen Fall zum ersten Mal zu sprechen, Alfredo Diaz.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, und sie arbeiten auch große Stunden, weil ich denke, dass es eine Pilot-Schwindel gibt. Ich weiß nicht, ob das eine Welt-Sache ist oder eine amerikanische Sache. Oh, wirklich? Ja, ja. Also haben sie diese Stunden gebraucht. Danke, dass du Pilot bist, wenn du einer bist.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Nun, der Pilot dieses bestimmten Flugzeugs war ein Mann namens Reginald Cook, der für seine Zeit eigentlich ziemlich erfahren war. Und er hat früher in der britischen Royal Air Force gearbeitet und hat in der Zweiten Weltkrieg gespielt. Das war Cooks erste Reise über die Andes als Kapitän eines Flugzeuges.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich wollte das bemerken, nicht weil er komplett neu war, um Elevationen zu verändern, aber es gibt ein bisschen eine Lernkurve, einen Crew zu kapitänieren. Es gibt definitiv andere Faktoren, über die wir sprechen werden, aber fliegen über die Berge, wenn du ein Flugzeug hast, das eine Oberfläche hat, eine operative Oberfläche von ca. 25.000 Meter und Berge, die bis zu 22.000 Meter hoch kommen,
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Weißt du, Dinge können passieren. Erinnere dich an das EAL-Flight 980, als der Berg mit dem Flugzeug eingefahren wurde. Das wird hier ziemlich bekannt sein. Nun, es gibt konfliktuelle Berichte über seinen Alter. Es ist glaubt, dass er um 29 Jahre alt war, als der Unfall stattfand. Und er hat, wie ich gesagt habe, in der Royal Air Force für etwa sechs Jahre gearbeitet.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Also hat er die bessere Hälfte seiner Zwanzigstundung mit Flugzeugen beteiligt und sich sehr mit den Instrumenten und dem Flug im Allgemeinen kennengelernt. Einer der Passagiere war eine Frau und fünf Männer unterschiedlicher Nationalitäten.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Sie haben einen britisch-palästinensischen Mann, der später verurteilt wurde, einen Diamant in seinem Jackett zu haben, einen Mitglied des Königs Messengers, der ein diplomatischer Kurier wäre, der handgelieferte wichtige Dokumente an britische Embassien handelte,
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Und innerhalb davon ist es offensichtlich, dass er für Arbeit reist war, mit einem Art von vitalen Dokumenten oder so etwas mit ihm auf diesem Flug. Und obwohl es nicht klar ist, was genau diese Dokumente waren, ist die Warnungsschleife immer noch schüchtern. Es wurde erwähnt, dass es mit den steigenden Tensionen zwischen Britannien und Argentinien zu tun hat.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Zudem haben wir ein Paar Freunde, die nach Südamerika reisen. Wir haben einen südamerikanischen Mann, der vermutlich der ehemalige Täter der rumänischen Gerechtigkeit ist. Eine deutsche Frau, die nach World War II zurück in ihr originelles Wohnzimmer in Chile zurückkehrt. Und nochmals, ihr habt das Wort Rumor oft gehört.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ich möchte beobachten, dass es viele Rumore in diesem theoretischen Passage manifestiert sind. Wir werden herausfinden, warum in einer der Theorien. Aber es elucidiert die Geschichte, die ich denke, dass die Leute nach.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Ja, ja. Was? Natürlich. Habe ich gerade einen Audible-Buch gehört? Es redet total wie ein Heist. Wir haben den Anfahrer. Wir haben die Gehirne der Operation. Von den sechs Passagieren auf diesem Flugzeug, vier von ihnen sind irgendeine Art... High-Level Someone or other who is connected at the seams to some great country-level conspiracy.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Absolut. Nun, ich möchte sagen, eine Sache, die mir kommt, ist, ja, der Rumormill liebt es, es anzuschütteln. Aber gleichzeitig sprechen wir über die 1940er Jahre. Commercial flights are not as frequent as now. They're maybe not as affordable now. I don't, again, I don't know the price of an airline during this time, but I would imagine that because it's more rarefied, it maybe has more cost.
Red Web
Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
It does seem to indicate that, yeah, maybe there are more VIPs per capita of people flying. You know what?
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
I did not even think about that. Right? Yeah.
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Star Dust Accident | Missing Flight’s Mysterious Last Message: STENDEC
Well, I was talking to a colleague of ours, turns out that's off. Really? They stopped doing that? Planes are so expensive. Oh, wow. Unless you want to fly, I want to be a Spirit Airlines, which I've done before. And it gets the job done, but there's definitely a lot of, you know, I've seen people run into issues, but you know what I'm saying.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Saw (2004)
Right. The saws are flimsy as hell, and those chains look like they lock up like a werewolf or some shit. So I was like, I mean, yeah, I'm sure you're going to give it a try, but I was like, that's not going to do anything.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Saw (2004)
like to play a game that's it that's the voice that was pretty good that was pretty good bro all i can say okay it says my my probably mentioned this before and i'll say this again when i pass it will not be the end of me each one of you receive little tape a series of games will unfold series of games will start and i will not Be gone for years. Pass my passing.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Saw (2004)
The number of things I'm pre-recording right now, insane. Golly.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
What is up, Task Force? This is Trevor once again with another preview of this week's Movie Club. Of course, we had to do it to you. We watched the classic Jason X. It was a crappy good time. I gotta be honest with you. We had a great time covering this one. So enjoy the preview of this week's episode and check it out over at redwebpod.com. Our journey begins at Crystal Lake Research Facility.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Favors and blackmail, a Jason X story. Okay, so this part is kind of interesting. I do like this element. It appears that they want Jason, they want to study his ability to regenerate new tissue. This man is a tank and he doesn't die. A lab tech named Rowan actually tries to stop him, implying that he's too dangerous to move. Do you think you can handle him if you unchain him and all of that?
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Well, she was right. When they removed the blanket from Jason, it appears that he's already broken free and swapped his body with the dead body of the poor sap who insulted him.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Yeah, yeah. Again, I don't know what Jason's plan was, but he let himself get captured, it seemed. You know, we'll just have to gloss over it. But Jason then readily dispatches the entire group in, and I timed it, 16 seconds. They're all gone. Oh. Yeah, I rewatched it because I was like, that was fast. Anyway, they're gone. We got to get to that budget. Got to get to the budget.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Rowan is then startled as the last man is thrown through the door, lands at her feet. She then turns to see Jason's done a little bit of his Jason magic and ended up behind her in the hallway. And she then takes the shotgun from the guy and runs off. as Jason stalks behind her. Somehow she manages to shotgun blast Jason, which pushes him back into an open cryogenic chamber and locks him in there.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
As he's freezing, she does the hero ego thing and steps right up to the window to look at him. And he stabs through all the metal of this door, manages to pierce through, stabs her. And then there's some sort of cryogenic leak as the entire room is then frozen in a lockdown. And they're both cryogenically frozen.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Yeah. Well, have a nice sleep. So at this point we fade to someone opening the lab door that we saw during the chase and the place is filled with cobwebs. So it's clear that either some time has passed or they have a severe spider problem. Well, it turns out it's been 455 years and earth is now uninhabitable.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
to Earth 2. It's just called Earth 2. We have a professor, an android named KM14, and a class of mostly morons who fumble into the crime scene and take a frozen Jason and Rowan up to space with them for further study. And even while frozen, Jason manages to de-limb one of these students when he causes the frozen body to fall and the raised machete just slices his arm off.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Did you know that the camp had a research lab? Dude, that's the first thing I said. Research facility? Oh, yeah.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
Now, as the team begins to reanimate our hero, we see that the nanobots are doing their thing, healing the student's arm, attaching it back on, and they then use this tech to reanimate Rowan. And let's just say the CGI looks incredible. We get some really clunky dialogue, some very advanced video calls, but we get to find out about Jason Voorhees from their perspective.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
He's on record as killing 200 people before disappearing completely, and it looks like Jason's body might be the professor's big ticket to getting a bunch of money. After all, his only motivation that we know of is, quote, and I'm quoting him, I need money. Yeah. That's his motivation. That's fair.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
And Jason Voorhees is chained up. He seems to be awaiting a cryogenic suspension. God only knows how they got him in the first place. And despite treating him like a lab rat, they do give him his dignity by letting him keep his hockey mask on before some lab technician dude calls him ugly and throws a blanket over his head. We know things are about to go south quick.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
We cut to the head doctor who's storming into the place, Dr. Wimmer. He's rolling in with his armed associates, and he's here for Jason, an unfrozen, soft Jason. Not, you know, cryogenic or whatever.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Jason X (2002)
All right. Look at me ball. Maybe this movie was just made on favors, you know?
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(Preview) Movie Club | Battle Royale (2000)
oh okay i read that like it's partially because like takeshi katana it was like a game show host so it's kind of like reminiscent of takeshi's castle like castle that's awesome because that's a great show just how silly and yet i don't know there's just a juxtaposition yes exactly and i feel like that's how the government would take it like it's something serious but they would try and be like that
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
Hey, Task Force, Trevor here with yet another Movie Club preview. This time we're spinning it up, and instead of doing a horror movie, we're doing a heist movie. It's been a long time since we've covered a heist, but it's one of our favorite topics, and this movie is absolutely brilliant. It covers the heist genre so perfectly. So let us know what you think.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
I mean, like this whole movie was planned out. I think that's what is fundamental to a decent heist movie is that it feels like it earned it. It feels like it was clever because that's what you want. I feel like when you watch a heist movie, you want something that's going to outsmart you that has a deep, intricate web.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
And this movie has that and shows it rather than telling it, which I think is added cleverness. You can see all these things be laid out.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
or you can miss it and be completely blown away but there's a lot of subtleties and i'll highlight a few of them along the way but yeah i i really enjoyed this scene too like christian said you know they they move this group but he holds one person back and we're confused is this another hostage or is this one of the robbers she changes her kind of face takes off the sunglasses whatever she begins to cry as he's yelling at her it's wonderful to watch this confusion happen
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
Check out this preview and listen to the full thing at redwebpod.com. Inside, the robbers appear to be drilling or excavating somewhere behind closed doors. Meanwhile, Russell moves about calmly. He gives orders to the group of Steves, we find out. All of the robbers have nicknames for each other. Steve, Stevie, Steve-o, things like that. He's not ransacking the vaults, though, we notice.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
Outside tensions begin to rise now that Captain John Darius, played by Willem Dafoe, who I forgot was in this. Oh, my God. Yeah, right. He arrives on the scene. He wants a very gung ho approach, not this very patient, very gut feelings forward approach that Frazier has. You know, he's so far. He said things like, I don't it doesn't feel right yet. I don't know. I don't want to do that yet.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
I'm going to let them come to me. Things like that. Eventually, Frasier decides, okay, I'll break the silence. I'm going to call inside. Russell eventually picks up. Their call feels less like a negotiation and two clever minds trying to suss each other out a little bit. Sussy. A little suspicious.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
Russell calmly asks for things like food, obviously, a bus, safe passage to a fueled 747 of all aircrafts. And Frazier suspects all of this is kind of window dressing for a bigger con. Like he keeps saying, I don't know, it doesn't feel right, but I don't know what exactly I'm feeling yet.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
yeah yeah fraser will point this out a little bit more obviously later on but yeah these criminals are in no rush and we'll kind of see that ultimately the police respond to the need for food obviously for the hostages by sending in pizza not sandwiches something that everybody can kind of surround themselves by because they're going to tuck microphones into that little center table thing that they put in the pizza they want to mic up these pizza boxes
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
And again, glossing over some really fun details, we later find out that what they're hearing through these microphones, the robbers are playing an Albanian political speech and propaganda because it's such a niche language. It causes them to go on a wild goose chase to figure out what the language is, what is being said. Oh, it has nothing to do with this case. So it just wasted more time.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
Yep. Same with the 747. He's like, what a specific aircraft. That's going to take some time. So eventually he starts, you know, getting into it and be like, yeah, the plane's ready for sure. You know, he's trying to jump the gun and make things speed up a little bit to play a counter game here.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
He's not pulling out all the drawers. He's not shoving cash into bags. Instead, the crew is investing their time over the course of this movie doing odd tasks. They're rummaging through documents. They're shuffling hostages around.
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(Preview) Movie Club | Inside Man (2006)
They're isolating individuals, moving them to different groups, sometimes swapping themselves out with the hostages to really create confusion and deepen the web of alibis for whatever comes after this heist is over.