Tristan Redman

Nyt päivän jälkeen sotilas on rauhoittunut. Se on hyvin rauhoittunut, rauhoittunut ja rauhoittunut. Järjestelmä Bargoonin yli. Yhdysvallat yrittävät rauhoittua islamilaisen valtion pahaa. Sitten sieltä tanssia ihmisiä on tullut. Heidän rauhoittuminen on vaikuttanut miljoonaan. Nyt he eivät ole paikalla.

Eikä kukaan tiedä, mitä heidän kanssaan tehdä. Ne olivat ihmisiä, jotka olivat liittyneet ISISiin. Ehkä heidän perheensä olivat saaneet heidät sieltä tai he olivat syntyneet sen sisällä. Tai he olivat karttikarjaajat, jotka olivat käyneet ja heidän perheensä olivat syntyneet ryhmään. Silloin lapset ja lapset olivat laitettavissa yksityiskohtaisissa kampoissa. Ja miehet olivat laitettavissa todella horiittisissa kivissa.

They've largely been there ever since. There's been no universal global policy about what to do with these people. Today that's created a great tension.

Josh, you mentioned these camps for ISIS fighters and their family members. You've been to them, I understand. What's it like? A lot, substantially. What's it like? It differs depending on whether you're a man or a woman. And if you're a man, you tend to end up in these very grim prison facilities where you are completely shut off from the outside world. For years, a lot of them weren't even sure whether the caliphate had truly existed.

Ja niin he ovat hieman valkoisessa kohdassa. Kaikki naiset ja heidän lapsensa, he yleensä loppuvat näissä valkoisessa kohdassa, jolla on melkein ajattelua, että ne ovat rauhassa. He ovat hyvin rauhassa paikassa, mutta heillä on hieman enemmän tilaa ulkopuolelle kuin miehet. Ja minulla on tällainen hyvin vihreä muistinen, että juuri sitten...

Kalafaitin jälkeen olin puhunut tekstistä näiden kaupungin naisista. Heillä oli telefoni, jonka he käyttäisivät myöhemmin. He olivat yhdessä ja kysyivät minulle kysymyksiä. Se oli niin mielenkiintoista ja myös histerinen, koska he halusivat kysyä minulle kysymyksiä, mitä bitcoin on.

What is gender neutrality? Are gay men all good looking? And there were all these concepts which are funny on face value, but it shows you how isolated they've become and how they were wrestling with this world that they'd emerged back into. Were these women you're referring to, Josh, were they Western women? Were they women who had grown up in Europe or the United States? Or are they from Iraq and Syria?

There were a couple there that were from the region specifically, but predominantly, you know, there were Canadian, there were English, there was Dutch. I think there was a German lady there at one point. There were women that had either traveled to be with the group with their families, or they were women that would argue that they were taken there against their will.

How are these prisons managed? How secure are they? You describe a situation where there's kind of refugee tents, essentially. And is the vision that these tents slash prison camps will exist in perpetuity? Like, is there an eventual plan for what to do with these people?

These facilities were always meant to be a temporary solution, right? And it's not just adults that live in these facilities, it's children as well. Some of these children were born inside the caliphate, some of them were taken there by their parents. And so they're surrounded by this sort of dominant ideology of extremism. And the longer they're kept there, security experts will tell you that the further they get from easy de-radicalization, if you will, because they don't know an outside world beyond that.

They are, as I said, meant to be temporary facilities. Therefore, they are largely insecure. We do see prison breaks. We do see people paying to be smuggled out of these camps. ISIS themselves smuggle money into the camps as well. So the dominant sort of group inside are pro-ISIS supporters. There's one in particular called Al-Hol.

Se on tällainen suuri kampi, josta näyttää, että olet menossa Mad Maxin kautta. Puhutaan, että olet yleensä rannassa ympäröivällä koneella, jossa on iso kone, koska se on niin epävarmuuskohtainen. Ja se on vain, kun puhutaan ympäröivällä.

Hold up, Josh. You see, ISIS is running the camp on the inside. What do you mean by that? So whether they would admit it to you or not, if you are a Syrian soldier at this moment, and you wanted to walk into certain parts of this camp, you would be taking your life in your hands. I mean, when I was there a while ago, in one week, I think there were two people murdered inside this camp. They are camps where they have found makeshift weapons, knives, but also guns. It is very lawless in these parts of these camps.

Kuinka monia ihmisiä puhutte sisällä näistä kampoista? Se riippuu siitä, missä menetetään. Konservatiiviset arvot käsittelevät, että noin 10 000 ihmisiä, joilla on noin 52 kansaa, pysyvät edelleen Syyliassa. Ja näistä ihmisistä teemme paljon erilaisia asioita. Puhutaan tästä enemmän, Josh. Tämä asia, mitä pitäisi tehdä sisällä ihmisistä. Olet sanonut, että sisällä on niin monia ulkomaalaisia, joiden sisällä on noin 52 kansaa.

Joten tässä on suuri ero siitä, mitä on poliittisesti hyväksyttävää ja mitä turvallisuusasiantuntijat kertovat, että se pitäisi tapahtua. Kukaan ei käsittele, että nämä ihmiset ovat vaikeita. Mutta jos meidän ajatus ja tavoitteemme on turvallisuus, niin tämä ei ole seuraavaa. Ja turvallisuusasiantuntijat kertovat, että se ei ole seuraavaa. Ja tässä on aika iso ympäristö.

America has been quite good at repatriations. I followed the story very closely of a lady called Sam Sally, which is our series one of our podcast, who is an American woman who says she was tricked into going to ISIS.

So you knew in 2014 that Musa wanted to join ISIS, categorically? Yes. I knew that he wanted to. I thought I had him talked out of it. I thought his family had him talked out of it as well. Then after that, although you think you've talked him out of it, you begin a process of smuggling tens of thousands of dollars of gold and cash out of the country to Hong Kong, making multiple trips. Yeah? Right. Yes.

So you have supported terrorism then? Yeah. You know, America took her and her kids back, put her in prison, rehabilitated the kids. What's the best thing about being home? Everything. Just everything. Like, there isn't a best part. And they have had great success at doing that with her and others. Yeah, there isn't... It's just being here is nice.

I was texting with a former ISIS woman by the name of Noelle just before coming into this studio. She's back in Holland. She was brought back, put into prison. Her case went for review, and it was found that she was likely a victim of a coercive relationship, and the charges against her were dropped, and she's now back with her kids. Then there's England. And England has brought back...

Some people quietly, often children and women. But predominantly what the view has been is that we leave them in Syria. Where this gets interesting is that is the status quo that's been maintained to now. But in just the last few weeks, Damascus under President Al-Shara has been trying to reconcile the country after, you know, more than a decade of civil war. Mm-hmm.