Vera Bergengruen
Appearances
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
The most important thing to know, I think, about him is that he has an advertising background. He comes from a wealthy family in El Salvador and his image has been all about rebranding. He wants to rebrand himself. He wants to rebrand his country. And when he was elected, he went about that by trying to change people's perception of El Salvador.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
He wanted to move away from this dangerous country that was being completely overrun by gangs. Now, when you walk into the airport, it says, you know, the land of surf, volcanoes and coffee.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And for him, one of the best ways to do that was building up this image that is very appealing to right wing Americans, to MAGA Americans, this tough on crime guy who was brave enough to take on the courts, take on his own country, take on corruption to great effect. I mean, it is very safe now. And it's been very effective at earning him a lot of allies in Trump's inner circle.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
Correct. It's the highest incarceration rate in the world. And yet, again, it is something where he's able to say, you know, I mean, he said this at the Oval Office this week. He said, we imprisoned this many people, but we liberated millions. That's part of his message. I think we underestimate how appealing all of that is to a lot of Americans, to a lot of right-wing Americans or Republicans.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
We see them echoing a lot of this, and I've said this before, but it really struck me in years of reporting on this, on how much of what Bukele is doing is kind of a MAGA fever dream. You know, he gets rid of judges. He swaps out lawmakers he doesn't like.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
He's basically running a one-party state because the other party exists is just completely weakened because there isn't really a real opposition. And because there's so much popularity for his measures.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
You know, there's two things. Number one, he helped the U.S. solve its own problem. Because by making El Salvador safer, by allowing people to go back, you know, there was less of a migration pressure. You know, Salvadorans weren't fleeing the gangs. And, you know, the U.S. saw something that was benefiting them as they were dealing with a crisis at the border.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And for them, in many ways, a stable El Salvador, even if it was something that they would consider approximating a police state... was just not worth fighting in that particular way. And the other thing is just that he does have a real 90 plus percent approval rating. And this isn't a Vladimir Putin sham approval rating kind of thing. It's real.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
I've spoken to so many people who have family members in jail who still prefer to live this way because they can live, they can work, they don't have to be worried for their lives. I think it's hard to overestimate just how horrific life under the gangs was. Mm-hmm.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
I think, again, if we put ourselves in his shoes, the leader of a country of 6 million people, a poor country, a country that has given him more visibility than it has ever had except for wars, basically. You know, the fact that people consider this a success story and someone who had so many human rights groups and the U.S.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
itself, European countries, going after him from human rights violations for anti-democratic norms and having the world's most powerful country court him, give him the honor of one of the first Oval Office visits, constantly praise him. And it's kind of a victory lap, but he's clearly hoping to capitalize on it. And what's in it for him, he's already gotten what he wanted.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
Beyond his wildest dreams, when I interviewed him last year, he could not have imagined that the US would be paying him to deport people to his own prison and then praise it and retweet his videos and, you know, which show pretty harsh treatment. It's almost like he feels like all of these countries are coming around to his model.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And not only that, but again, I mean, there's obviously a financial benefit. He's hoping to kind of become a penal colony for the U.S.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
That's a great question. I think it's a completely new world out there. I mean, even legal experts, they say it's technically unconstitutional, but we've never really had this happen in this particular way. The idea of deporting U.S. criminals to a foreign prison, there's a lot of questions about the long-term feasibility of this.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
But in terms of what recourse there is, I think we're finding not much. You know, I think a lot of focus will be on the money that the United States is paying. So far, we know of $6 million for one year, but of course, that's going to be more if they sent more people. Where's that money coming from? Is it legal to pay a foreign country to imprison people in this way?
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
That could be one way that lawmakers have to do that. They could also maybe hold up or try to question different kinds of foreign aid to El Salvador that is not tied to the prison. But all of this is just new. I don't think there's really a playbook for this.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
When I wrote this last year, it was a big worry and concern in the region because we've seen Honduras and Ecuador, for example, both try to start building these mass prisons as well. They are trying to institute their own state of emergency, which basically allows them to suspend due process for people in order to put them in.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And I think what can be underestimated is in a region struggling with security issues, just again, the question is really, what do you do when something is that popular? Because it is, you know, he's broadcasting this. He's the most popular world leader on TikTok. And he has these very cinematic TikTok videos showing the harsh treatment in his prisons.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And when you look at the comments, it's comments from all over the world, from Europe to Asia, Africa, all of them are saying... We need our own Bukele in Ethiopia, in Netherlands. It is overwhelmingly positive. There's a simplicity to what Bukele is doing that is difficult to fight. Like the idea that if somebody is a violent criminal, you should just lock him up.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
And if somebody is an alleged violent criminal, you should still lock him up because even if a couple of innocent people get caught in the process, it allows millions to live a safer life. And it is such a simple message that is really difficult for human rights concerns to process concerns to fight in this moment.
Apple News Today
The foreign leader helping Trump defy the Supreme Court
El Salvador is an extreme, but I think we're going to see a lot of countries just experiment with that and see where it goes.
WSJ What’s News
China Has Been Building Influence for Years. How Will Trump Respond?
When Rubio arrived in Panama City, he came with an ultimatum from Trump. And he told Panama's president, José Raúl Molina, that his country either had to curb China's presence around the Panama Canal or face some kind of unspecified response from the U.S. But behind closed doors, we were told that it was actually a very productive meeting.
WSJ What’s News
China Has Been Building Influence for Years. How Will Trump Respond?
And Panamanian officials were really eager to show the Trump administration that they were willing to curb Chinese influence and welcome all kinds of U.S. investment in the country.
WSJ What’s News
China Has Been Building Influence for Years. How Will Trump Respond?
And it was a big concession for his government. But it's important to remember that Molino is a very pro-U.S. president who's very eager to align his country with the U.S. over China. And this kind of strong-arming tactic may not be as productive with leaders who have a warm relationship with Beijing.
WSJ What’s News
China Has Been Building Influence for Years. How Will Trump Respond?
Biden officials in Angola were very clear that they had heard from a lot of Republican lawmakers. They had heard from Trump officials that they are very interested in continuing this. There's a high level of interest because it's a lucrative business opportunity, but also because it's a blueprint that can be replicated across many other continents as well.