Vincent Cunningham

It was a cinematic metaphor, but not real.

If you could, and I know it's an elementary question, but it's crucial to understand it if we're going to get at your work in a deeper way. But we know the New Testament, and we know that there are four Gospels. Right.

If you could, and I know it's an elementary question, but it's crucial to understand it if we're going to get at your work in a deeper way. But we know the New Testament, and we know that there are four Gospels. Right.

If you could, and I know it's an elementary question, but it's crucial to understand it if we're going to get at your work in a deeper way. But we know the New Testament, and we know that there are four Gospels. Right.

Before Gospels emerged and somehow became canonical in what we know as the New Testament, there was a discovery at a certain point of a gigantic jar by somebody who basically came across it. And broke it open, and inside were texts, some of which were used as, I hate to even think about it, half of them seem to have been burned up most likely, right? Used as kindling for the fire, yes.

Before Gospels emerged and somehow became canonical in what we know as the New Testament, there was a discovery at a certain point of a gigantic jar by somebody who basically came across it. And broke it open, and inside were texts, some of which were used as, I hate to even think about it, half of them seem to have been burned up most likely, right? Used as kindling for the fire, yes.

Before Gospels emerged and somehow became canonical in what we know as the New Testament, there was a discovery at a certain point of a gigantic jar by somebody who basically came across it. And broke it open, and inside were texts, some of which were used as, I hate to even think about it, half of them seem to have been burned up most likely, right? Used as kindling for the fire, yes.

But what survived are what's called the Gnostic Gospels. What are they, and how do they compare to the book of Mark and Matthew?

But what survived are what's called the Gnostic Gospels. What are they, and how do they compare to the book of Mark and Matthew?

But what survived are what's called the Gnostic Gospels. What are they, and how do they compare to the book of Mark and Matthew?

Why did they emerge and become the canon and the others fell away?

Why did they emerge and become the canon and the others fell away?

Why did they emerge and become the canon and the others fell away?

But why would they be considered heretical?

But why would they be considered heretical?

But why would they be considered heretical?

I'm talking with the religion scholar Elaine Pagels, and we'll continue in a moment.

I'm talking with the religion scholar Elaine Pagels, and we'll continue in a moment.

I'm talking with the religion scholar Elaine Pagels, and we'll continue in a moment.

One part of your new book that's already received some, let's just say, attention in the Catholic hierarchy long before publication is your investigation of the narratives of Immaculate Conception. Tell me... How this is still controversial and uncertain 2,000 years later.