Wendy Zuckerman

So as for the question of why he did it, John actually got, when I asked him, the cop, you know, what do people get wrong when they report this story? And he got quite passionate and he just said, you know, this case has been reported as an angel of death case that Ephraim was trying to reduce their suffering. Mm-mm.

But for this case, I mean, John says that they were specifically looking for victims who were getting better. You know, like you said, who were toasting New Year's, who wanted to live. And in that confession room, Efren told John that there was a completely different reason for doing what he did.

But for this case, I mean, John says that they were specifically looking for victims who were getting better. You know, like you said, who were toasting New Year's, who wanted to live. And in that confession room, Efren told John that there was a completely different reason for doing what he did.

What? Yeah. He told the police that, quote, it was not something that gave me joy. And then he said, quote, only when I was only at my wits end on the staffing, I'd look at the board, who we got to get rid of. What? So callous. We talked to Sarah, our science journalist, about the victims.

What? Yeah. He told the police that, quote, it was not something that gave me joy. And then he said, quote, only when I was only at my wits end on the staffing, I'd look at the board, who we got to get rid of. What? So callous. We talked to Sarah, our science journalist, about the victims.

Efren was sentenced to six consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole for the murder counts and 15 years to life for the attempted murder of Jean Coyle, who was the woman who survived. And there is this extra weird twist to this story, Ashley, because if Efren had gone to trial instead of taking a plea deal, he might have been faced with the death penalty.

Efren was sentenced to six consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole for the murder counts and 15 years to life for the attempted murder of Jean Coyle, who was the woman who survived. And there is this extra weird twist to this story, Ashley, because if Efren had gone to trial instead of taking a plea deal, he might have been faced with the death penalty.

And at that time, if he got the death penalty, do you want to guess? They would have used the same drug. Yes. One of the drugs that they would have used to kill him was Pavalon. Wow. So, Ashley, that's the case of how some nerds used some smooth and beautiful moves to catch a killer.

And at that time, if he got the death penalty, do you want to guess? They would have used the same drug. Yes. One of the drugs that they would have used to kill him was Pavalon. Wow. So, Ashley, that's the case of how some nerds used some smooth and beautiful moves to catch a killer.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for joining the show, Ashley. Thank you for having me. If you want to know more about this case, then go check out our transcript. So in the show notes for this episode, there's a link to our transcript and it's fully cited.

Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for joining the show, Ashley. Thank you for having me. If you want to know more about this case, then go check out our transcript. So in the show notes for this episode, there's a link to our transcript and it's fully cited.

So there's links to Armando's amazing work that looks like a figure skater and also links to some amazing reporting that was done by staff at the LA Times who we used to help make this episode. Also, Sarah Skoll's book is called Countdown, The Blinding Future of Nuclear Weapons. And this story didn't make the cut. So it's called Countdown, The Blinding Future of Nuclear Weapons.

So there's links to Armando's amazing work that looks like a figure skater and also links to some amazing reporting that was done by staff at the LA Times who we used to help make this episode. Also, Sarah Skoll's book is called Countdown, The Blinding Future of Nuclear Weapons. And this story didn't make the cut. So it's called Countdown, The Blinding Future of Nuclear Weapons.

This episode was produced by Katie Foster-Keys and Joel Werner, with help from me, Wendy Zuckerman, along with Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler and Michelle Dang. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Mix and sound design by Sam Baer. Fact-checking by Diane Kelly. Music written by So Wiley, Bobby Lord and Bumi Hidaka.

This episode was produced by Katie Foster-Keys and Joel Werner, with help from me, Wendy Zuckerman, along with Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler and Michelle Dang. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Mix and sound design by Sam Baer. Fact-checking by Diane Kelly. Music written by So Wiley, Bobby Lord and Bumi Hidaka.

A special thanks to Roland Campos, Steve Wampler, Audrey Williams, the Audiochuck team, Jasmine Kingston, Connor Sampson, Stupid Old Studios, and Penny Greenhalgh. Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original. Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

A special thanks to Roland Campos, Steve Wampler, Audrey Williams, the Audiochuck team, Jasmine Kingston, Connor Sampson, Stupid Old Studios, and Penny Greenhalgh. Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original. Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

And if you are listening on Spotify, follow us and tap the bell icon so you'll get notifications when new episodes come out. Also, if you do like the show, we would love it if you would give us a five-star review because it really helps new listeners find the show. I'm Wendy Zuckerman. Back to you next time. That was one of our episodes from Science Versus.

And if you are listening on Spotify, follow us and tap the bell icon so you'll get notifications when new episodes come out. Also, if you do like the show, we would love it if you would give us a five-star review because it really helps new listeners find the show. I'm Wendy Zuckerman. Back to you next time. That was one of our episodes from Science Versus.

To find more stories from us, just search for Science Versus. That's Science VS. We'll catch you soon.