Wendy Zukerman

And yeah, he said, like, we tried carefully to create conditions that are as natural as possible to what...

vapors might get exposed to.

But even he was like, yeah, ultimately, it's a study in mice.

He said, this is a quote, the major purpose of exposing mice in an inhalation chamber is to determine the effect of e-cigarette aerosols in mice.

So like, of course, we can't say the same is going to be true for humans.

Of course.

Yeah.

So the other point that Leon made, and this has to do with, I think the first thing you mentioned, Wendy, about how like, oh, it turns out the toxic chemicals, the carcinogens, they like actually get in the bodies of the vapors.

You can find them in their pee.

And that is certainly not a good thing.

Leon and other experts who commented on this paper, they pointed out that like, well, these

amounts of carcinogens that we find in vapors' bodies, they're actually kind of low.

And as Leon puts it, the dose makes the poison, right?

And that's just sort of a general rule in epidemiology that the more you're exposed to something that has some kind of risk, the more likely you are to develop

but that disease, you know, and so with vaping.

Now, I mean, Leon did say, he agrees, it's totally possible vaping could have a risk of causing cancer.

He just doesn't think that we currently have the evidence to support saying that for sure, yes, we know now vaping does cause cancer.

And one reason is we actually don't have much data in actual human beings with actual cancer.

Yes.

And I really went looking for other evidence that didn't make it in Bernard's review of people who vape getting cancer.