Werner Spitzfaden

Yeah, this was mid to late 1990s. We invited you to come and do a training with Kaiser therapists. And it was terrific. You actually did some teaching on how to do team CB, although team wasn't as developed as it is today. It's much more sophisticated. But you showed us how the model worked with group therapy, which was really exciting.

Yeah, this was mid to late 1990s. We invited you to come and do a training with Kaiser therapists. And it was terrific. You actually did some teaching on how to do team CB, although team wasn't as developed as it is today. It's much more sophisticated. But you showed us how the model worked with group therapy, which was really exciting.

Huh. You know, I can picture who you're talking about, and I'll think of her name after we get done with this podcast, I'm sure, unless it pops in in the meantime. I have really good memories from back then. Thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast here.

Huh. You know, I can picture who you're talking about, and I'll think of her name after we get done with this podcast, I'm sure, unless it pops in in the meantime. I have really good memories from back then. Thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast here.

Can you hear the process and outcome resistance? Yeah.

Can you hear the process and outcome resistance? Yeah.

Well, initially when Rhonda threw out that suggestion, I was a little bit reluctant because we've known each other so well and I didn't know what that therapeutic relationship might look like. And I decided to channel David to some degree. You know the guy, David Burns? You know him, right?

Well, initially when Rhonda threw out that suggestion, I was a little bit reluctant because we've known each other so well and I didn't know what that therapeutic relationship might look like. And I decided to channel David to some degree. You know the guy, David Burns? You know him, right?

Is, you know, that I had to create a certain distance from the friendship side of it while still, you know, paradoxically keeping that in mind as well. But, yeah, so we just really worked on some initial assessment and to see what was really going on and how much of a – A struggle it had been for Rhonda on several levels that she had worked on this previously.

Is, you know, that I had to create a certain distance from the friendship side of it while still, you know, paradoxically keeping that in mind as well. But, yeah, so we just really worked on some initial assessment and to see what was really going on and how much of a – A struggle it had been for Rhonda on several levels that she had worked on this previously.

And then during the pandemic, the driving phobia came roaring back. And am I capturing that right, Rhonda? Yeah. Yeah. And that it was really painful for her that there were so many issues. safety behaviors that she was engaging in and finding other routes, really avoiding certain overpasses and driving at night and a number of other... And she would experience a lot of anxiety with...

And then during the pandemic, the driving phobia came roaring back. And am I capturing that right, Rhonda? Yeah. Yeah. And that it was really painful for her that there were so many issues. safety behaviors that she was engaging in and finding other routes, really avoiding certain overpasses and driving at night and a number of other... And she would experience a lot of anxiety with...

with breathing and asking her husband to drive for her, stopping on the side of the freeway and asking him to drive and so forth. And as we talk more through this, we also discovered that there was a fear of heights. And oftentimes with driving, there are multiple phobias that are actually in play and

with breathing and asking her husband to drive for her, stopping on the side of the freeway and asking him to drive and so forth. And as we talk more through this, we also discovered that there was a fear of heights. And oftentimes with driving, there are multiple phobias that are actually in play and

And it could be a fear of driving and bridges, but it also could be a fear of heights or even a fear of small spaces. In other words, if you're having to merge in freeway traffic, that you feel kind of locked in or hemmed in by vehicles on either side. So we began to sort that out a little bit more and realized that a fear of heights was definitely part of the equation. And

And it could be a fear of driving and bridges, but it also could be a fear of heights or even a fear of small spaces. In other words, if you're having to merge in freeway traffic, that you feel kind of locked in or hemmed in by vehicles on either side. So we began to sort that out a little bit more and realized that a fear of heights was definitely part of the equation. And

And so as we worked through that, there was just a lot of empathy. And I just felt my heart went out to Rhonda because I recognized how much she was struggling with this and how much of a battle it really was for her. Not only that, but as we began to develop the daily mood log, how... how angry she was really with herself and even in some ways emotionally abusive towards herself.

And so as we worked through that, there was just a lot of empathy. And I just felt my heart went out to Rhonda because I recognized how much she was struggling with this and how much of a battle it really was for her. Not only that, but as we began to develop the daily mood log, how... how angry she was really with herself and even in some ways emotionally abusive towards herself.

And when we go through the daily mood log, you'll be able to see what I mean by that. Yeah, so empathy, of course, became just a huge part of this and making sure that I was getting the kind of empathy scores that engendered the level of confidence that was necessary for that trusting relationship to develop and grow.

And when we go through the daily mood log, you'll be able to see what I mean by that. Yeah, so empathy, of course, became just a huge part of this and making sure that I was getting the kind of empathy scores that engendered the level of confidence that was necessary for that trusting relationship to develop and grow.