Werner Spitzfaden

for me and the therapeutic process to ask of Rhonda to engage in a certain process that was going to be challenging and difficult and even anxiety-provoking. And I think the empathy score is pretty much settled in the 20 range consistently. Do I remember that, Rhonda? Yeah.

for me and the therapeutic process to ask of Rhonda to engage in a certain process that was going to be challenging and difficult and even anxiety-provoking. And I think the empathy score is pretty much settled in the 20 range consistently. Do I remember that, Rhonda? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as an overview.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, as an overview.

Yeah, really good question. So safety behaviors have to do with those adjustments that the client makes to take care of themselves, but that reinforces the dysfunctional nature of the phobia. So in other words, instead of driving over the freeway overpass,

Yeah, really good question. So safety behaviors have to do with those adjustments that the client makes to take care of themselves, but that reinforces the dysfunctional nature of the phobia. So in other words, instead of driving over the freeway overpass,

they would choose an alternate route that's going to take them 30 or 40 minutes longer to get to their destination so that it actually enables their phobia even further, that they're reinforcing the fearful elements of the phobia. Other safety behavior could be like what I pointed out earlier, that Rhonda says, I can't drive anymore and asks her husband to take over.

they would choose an alternate route that's going to take them 30 or 40 minutes longer to get to their destination so that it actually enables their phobia even further, that they're reinforcing the fearful elements of the phobia. Other safety behavior could be like what I pointed out earlier, that Rhonda says, I can't drive anymore and asks her husband to take over.

Or it could be other types of safety behaviors as well. So and then the second question, why does empathy play into this? The therapeutic alliance between therapist and client really needs to be solid and that there is a level of trust that... is part of this because I'm going to be asking the client to kind of go to the gates of hell, so to speak, right, to borrow a phrase from you, David.

Or it could be other types of safety behaviors as well. So and then the second question, why does empathy play into this? The therapeutic alliance between therapist and client really needs to be solid and that there is a level of trust that... is part of this because I'm going to be asking the client to kind of go to the gates of hell, so to speak, right, to borrow a phrase from you, David.

And in order to do that, that they really need to trust and believe that you understand what their challenges and what their pain is really all about. And I'm not a stranger to having phobias. I've had my own anxieties with even with performance anxiety, especially, but also with at times with flying or I had one panic attack when I was scuba diving. So I really understand what that feeling of

And in order to do that, that they really need to trust and believe that you understand what their challenges and what their pain is really all about. And I'm not a stranger to having phobias. I've had my own anxieties with even with performance anxiety, especially, but also with at times with flying or I had one panic attack when I was scuba diving. So I really understand what that feeling of

desperation is all about. There's really kind of a desperate feeling that surfaces, a really scary feeling for the client. And that when, I think when Rhonda and I really connected on that level, that it created that safe environment to move forward with this challenging topic.

desperation is all about. There's really kind of a desperate feeling that surfaces, a really scary feeling for the client. And that when, I think when Rhonda and I really connected on that level, that it created that safe environment to move forward with this challenging topic.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think that's a great summary of what's needed. And that kind of self-disclosure, I think, just goes a long way and creates a unique connection that other therapists may not be able to establish.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think that's a great summary of what's needed. And that kind of self-disclosure, I think, just goes a long way and creates a unique connection that other therapists may not be able to establish.

Couldn't resist the offer. Right. Yeah. Well, I I think you're so right, David, about the continuing to to go after it. Oftentimes there are times when it's a one and done like the example. That you cited in When Panic Attacks with the woman with the elevator phobia.

Couldn't resist the offer. Right. Yeah. Well, I I think you're so right, David, about the continuing to to go after it. Oftentimes there are times when it's a one and done like the example. That you cited in When Panic Attacks with the woman with the elevator phobia.

You know, that it is kind of a one-and-done, although she had been in psychotherapy for years and years, and you were able to really— 20 years of psychoanalysis. That's right. And you were able to address it in a very short period of time. But I think in some other circumstances, it really is a kind of keeping after it.

You know, that it is kind of a one-and-done, although she had been in psychotherapy for years and years, and you were able to really— 20 years of psychoanalysis. That's right. And you were able to address it in a very short period of time. But I think in some other circumstances, it really is a kind of keeping after it.