Whitney Pennington-Rogers

Well, I think that actually leads to another point here, which is that migration has been a really huge political topic these days.

And I think one thing I find really interesting is that you both sort of make a point to tackle this topic from a place that largely leaves politics out of it and is sort of just looking at what you find to be the facts and the things that you've studied.

How do you think politicization of migration has impacted the way people think about migration?

And I'll ask you this because I know that's a huge part of your work and thinking about migration and how it sort of intersects with economics.

You touched on this a little bit, Zeke, but when you think about the sentiment then around immigration, that feels like that is something then that as we're looking at how

things are changing as far as the politics and culturally, the way we think about it.

Do you feel that there is a sentiment that is more anti-immigrant these days than we've seen in the past?

I'd love both of your takes on this, but Zeke, why don't you start since you touched on this a little bit?

And Sonia, sort of turning to you, I think to even add to this, I love your thoughts on what you think are the fundamental differences we're seeing in our world that might contribute to the way we think about migration as you've looked at it over history.

And I think I'd love to get into that more too, just sort of thinking about how migration really affects the way we live our lives and affects our world.

And of course, we know that there are a lot of reasons why people migrate and we're using migration as sort of this umbrella term to talk about people who are immigrating by choice, people who are refugees and fleeing something.

And the media, regardless of what type of migration is happening, we see is often painting human migration as either good or bad.

But it seems the truth is a bit more gray, as is the case with most things, right?

I'd love to break that down and maybe in specific areas.

So maybe we could first start with the economy, which of course, as you can know, this is your real specialty in thinking about migration and the economy.

How do you see migration impacting the economy, both within the local national level and then thinking globally?

And Sonia, I know historically you've sort of seen what the conversation around migration has looked like as it relates to things like safety and security.

And that's often in the media and when we talk about the politics around migration is a big point of conversation around whether spaces become less safe because there are migrants there.

Are you making spaces safer by removing people from a space?

How do you see that migration actually does affect safety and security?