William H. Macy
Appearances
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
hi everybody my guest today is uh it's william h macy come on man i thought you had gone up no no no oh you thought i forgot my line yeah um listen to this resume he did a he did a whole bunch of mammoth plays and then they became movies and he was in those as well fargo Academy Award nominee.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think an actor has to know what's funny and know something about comedy and timing. But I'm not sure you can teach that. Some people just get it and some people don't. And that's up to the gods. But Lord help us from funny acting.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, some people have actual tragedies, but yeah, a lot of it's in our heads.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I can't abide it. It's so funny. I've never heard an actor's point of view on that. Because everyone I know is a comedian.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
so so and i'm and i also and and i've had friends i've made like i've i've had friends ad lib entire performances that ended up being great and i i'm with you i'm more like let's write it well and then maybe there's a little improv here and there but i'm with i i agree with you in that like i'll watch certain movies and be like this is just this is bullshit
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I've had my ups and downs, but I've always been optimistic and sometimes downright Pollyanna-ish. And I've loved my career. I married a great broad, got lucky there. My kids are extraordinary, two fabulous women. So it's all good. And I'm upright, you know, in good health with the exception of a few leaks here and there. And it's all it's all good.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I used to write a lot of movies of the week with my friend who also studied with David, Stephen Schachter. And we got in a groove. We did over a dozen of them. And it was lovely. But we'd write them together. He'd direct them. And as my star rose, I would start playing the lead role. This in the late 70s, early 80s?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
um this would be out here this is 90s okay yeah when they were called movies of the week yes and uh it was usually an hour and a half a special and um We were doing one and there was this actress who was just ad-libbing up a storm. I'm in the scene with her. And I went to the first and I said, she knows I wrote this, right? And she was just chattering away.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You never knew when your cue was coming because she'd never shut up. And just funny jokes she would slaughter by using different words and stuff like that. And I finally went up to her and I said, you... You're pretty funny. She said, thank you. And I said, yeah, you should write a script. And she said, it's funny you would say that. I'm thinking about it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And I said, no, what I'm saying is I wrote this script. Shut the fuck up.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Congratulations. When you're number one on the call sheet, you can do that stuff. I have a similar story doing a sketch on Chappelle Show, which I did with Dave. Genius. Thank you. We're doing a scene, Dave and an actress. The actress is ad-libbing. And I just like quickly yell cut. And I'm like, hey, I need you to say do that. And she goes, I'm an actress. I can say whatever I want.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And she looks at Dave like, right? And Dave literally goes, lady, you just said that to the worst person on earth. Good, good for you. Yeah, it's like, well, if we wrote it, certain people... Go ahead, Natalie. I'm with you if you're... So there wasn't more... I would think that Boogie Nights and Magnolia had improv. It seemed a little improv-y. Not much. I mean...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Paul is a magnificent director, and he's so attuned to what's happening on the set. And if he sees something he likes, he'll say, do more of that.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
But he writes great scripts. And they're pretty loose, meaning it's there, but there's room if there's... Nope.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He writes good scripts. You've got to be pretty good to come up with a better line than he wrote. Dave's the same way. Dave Mamet, you would think probably greatest writer of our generation. You would think he would be precious about his lines, but he's not at all. I've heard him say, well, you keep saying it wrong. I must've wrote it wrong.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And then we change it. Well, does he go away and change it or he works it out with you? He's fast.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
When you're doing plays, it's fabulous to see Dave. You see him out in the house there and he puts his hands over his ears and you can see him. He thinks of it and then he counts it out. There's rhythm in everything he does. It's iambic pentameter mostly. Yeah. I just... I adore his writing. It's really difficult. Really hard to learn.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And sometimes it's hard to discern what he's saying because he doesn't give you... He writes it like people speak and... Just as we've all had conversations where you're not sure what the other guy's saying.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He's cool with it? Most of the films I've done, he spends as much energy on the gag reel and jokes as he does on the script.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He loves it. Staten Main's got a joke that became a staple in big comedy. Which is? That just happened.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
so that happened well that just happened yes that that was on set he came up with that on set
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
That's the first time... I've talked to other comedians and writers about it. That's the first time anyone ever said that. Oh, yeah. In entertainment. And then Will Ferrell said it... That just happened. A bunch of people said it in other movies, but it's like... That's where it came from.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think some scholar someday will... come up with a half a book of things that Dave came up with that have moved into our vocabularies.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Was it weird to become an actor when you became an actor? Because I always think about like it must you were in Chicago, Midwest. It's not like there wasn't much of a path, right?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Look, I got a pair of the perfect jeans and I even sent them back for a better fit. It's a very good jean. Most jeans, they don't have enough different fits. I don't know what's wrong with my legs or body. It's not normal. So I need certain, I'm kind of lanky, but I don't know what's going on. Perfect jean has been perfect, right? That's how you want it, right?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
They have more size options than any other website I've ever been on. And it's super seamless, and the return was great. And, Will, show them the photo. I mean, look at my butt. My girl said my butt looks great the other day. I've been doing squats for seven years. It's finally paying off. You know what I like about them? They're stretchy. They're not like leggings, like jeggings.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
um where they're jean leggings and whatever these are like uh they're they're the new the new material everything's stretchy now in a way that i love i'm an old man we didn't use to have stretch like this they're soft and stretchy i can like bend down i can do my lunges you know how i do my lunges if you do i read if you do like eight lunges once an hour it's better it's one of these things like better than running marathons one of those new stats where you're like what
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No, but my parents were totally behind it, and I think my parents were smart enough to know, I'm not sure he can do anything else, so let's support this. I was not a good student. They totally supported it, and I... I actually never looked back from about age 20 on.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I waste a lot of time. It takes me a long time to get going. I think that's the other reason... You're a procrastinator? I'm a procrastinator. That's another reason it's a really good thing that I became an actor because... They tell you where to be, what time, what to do. It's all proscribed, and that's good for me.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I tried directing, and I've tried writing and producing, and that is not my sweet spot at all.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's too big. An actor's job is really the moment, this one thing that I'm about to say. And when you do that, you do the next moment. You just go moment to moment. It's almost the definition of great acting. Just go moment to moment. And that's where I live. That's good for me. Is just not, just head down. Head down. What do you see? Say something about it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's been a slow realization. I'm pretty sure every actor thinks, I could write. Yeah. I could direct. I could produce. Well, I tried them all.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And you're significantly better at acting than the rest of it. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I... When I started directing, I did about four little features, and the producers would always say two things. One, oh, my God, you'll be so great with the actors. And then I wasn't. I found them very frustrating and crazy as loons and...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
um that's interesting did it did you assume you'd like it and then you were like oh fuck this is a pain in the ass yes it was such an eye-opener to see how insane we are and you consider it wasn't like they were different than you they were you just never had to deal with yourself great yeah although how are you insane uh do you know what i mean like like when you think about it when you say that what are you thinking of
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You just didn't... What do you mean by that? You just didn't consider how you got... You didn't look down, so to speak? You just keep walking?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, let me answer it by saying, why does a director think they're insane? It's because the actor will come up and say, oh, I was thinking that my journey will make my mustache go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're standing there and what you're thinking is, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but it's about to rain. And if we don't get this shot, we're screwed. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I can't talk about your mustache anymore. They just are so self-absorbed. And Gloria's so. That's the job. They're doing their job. They're doing their job, yeah. I always say to directors, listen, and I got this from Dave, listen, you can't listen to the actors. about the script because it's an actor's job to fall in love with this character.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And so anything that makes your character look bad or makes you uncomfortable about your character, you're going to say, I don't think this is appropriate. I think we should change this line. What if I... And so if you listen to the actor, they'll take all the drama. out of the script. I say, so you cannot listen to the actors except me.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yep. Good stuff happened on a regular enough basis that... I mean, every once in a while, I'd say... I'm thinking of giving this up, but mostly I was trying to get laid in sympathy, but I never actually did. And I'm one of those lucky actors. My favorite part of this. is when everybody gets quiet and it's my turn to talk. I just love that moment.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. Now I have some notes. Yeah. Mamet strikes me as the kind of guy who was like, no, I'm way ahead of you. I figured that out.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I heard an actor come up to Dave and said, I'm really uncomfortable about this moment. And Dave said, you are? I'm so happy for you and walked away. And Dave's right. You're not supposed to be uncomfortable. You can't be comfortable.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No. You've got two forces and one of them is going to win. It's got to be uncomfortable. That's why they call it drama.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yep. And what do you think that you're best at? Do you think that you get... If you're best at acting versus writing, directing, producing, what sort of acting are you best at? Or what sort of character? Or do you have a preference?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I seem to put humor in everything I do, even the straight-ahead dramas. It's the Mike Nichols rule. If you want people to cry, tell a joke first. And if you want people to laugh, do something sad. It's the whipsawing our emotions. I like comedies. I think we need to laugh these days. But really, I like it all.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. I'm a Lutheran from Western Maryland, something of a coward. So when it comes to the heavy, heavy, tragic dramas.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I have to be goaded a little bit to go there. I don't like- To be interested in it as a, to do it, to literally to take the part? Sometimes to do it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And then as I'm doing it, to go deeper. And that's hard to say to an actor, but I married well. And Felicity, a couple of times has said, I think you need to go a little deeper. I would skim across the top.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
All right. Yeah. Felicity and I talk about our work. We talk with each other and we read each other's scripts. We give each other's notes. I don't recommend it. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. But for some reason, it's the basis of our relationship. We met on stage, and we love acting, and we love technique, and we love art, and we love the theater and movies, and we talk about it all the time.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You mentioned being Lutheran. Do you think it's a core? Do you think that stuff... I kind of have in mind, like, I was raised Catholic, and it's like... And at certain points I was an atheist and it's like, but I was always Catholic. I'm still Catholic. You know what I mean? Like, it's a bit like being Irish. Like I just, this is just kind of the frame. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Um, what, how has it affected where, what, how does it affect your habits?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
My father's, uh, people were all Yankees. Uh, my grandfather was a Quaker. So, um, Emotions are sort of foreign to me. One time my mom said something at the dinner table and my father said something sharp back and she said something sharp to him and my father went, well.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It did. I think just as you're Catholic, my Yankee, um, non-emotional thing holds me in good stead because, um, it's my go-to position, which I think is a smart one. Uh, you know, if you don't want to, if you don't know what to do, don't do anything. Um,
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Because that's something. Well, that's probably also the more common human reaction. Yeah. Which is underdoing it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
So when I have something where I've got to go for it, it's big, it's explosive, it's emotional. It's such foreign territory for me. It's thrilling.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Oh, you probably don't even know what's going to happen. No, no. Because you've never done it as Bill.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah, you uncork that bottle and it's sometimes scary what comes out. You're aging well. Oh, thank you. You're 70? About to turn 75. Gone on 75, as the kids say. You look good, man. Thank you. I feel good. Had the same trainer for 25 years, Kirsten Hultgreen. She's a genius. She goes to school every year, so as her clientele has grown older, she's educated herself as to what we need.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'm not crazy about the business or career stuff, the biz of the biz, but I really like acting.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
How do you feel about, were you worried about it? my health my well i'm no because your looks i think it's very how an actor looks is to the moment point it's like a lot of the job is like what does this person how does this person appear were you concerned about age i guess it's different for men than women but were you hugely different were you concerned about it what was your approach
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, I've always been a character actor, and it didn't really matter. Other people will do it. If you look right for the role, they'll cast you. If you don't, they won't. So I always abided in their decision. If they want me to do it, I look right.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Who were you competitive with? Were you, as an actor? Were there two or three guys that you kept losing shit to?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
guys my age it's been weeded out so there are just a couple of us and i think there's room for everybody but yeah at the beginning especially i used to do commercials to try to keep the wolf away and um it's same guys same 10 guys over and over again yeah well yeah for sure but does that does that then happen when you're nominated for an academy award and you're up for a year like capital capital bill macy
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, most guys my age are singular by now. They've lasted and- They have a brand.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. I never thought about what my brand is. nor do I want to.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, it's interesting. Sitting with you, I'm like, you were in The Cooler too, weren't you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, like you've done a lot of shit, man. I'm a lucky guy. I'm like, Jesus, this is a guy from, I forgot you were in The Cooler. There's another great, another great sort of singular weird movie.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You said something, and I don't know if you said it. Someone told me you said this to them. You said, when you see an actor taking a long dramatic pause, most of the time they're trying to remember their lines.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Maria Bella was so good in that. Yeah. I thought after Fargo, I was going to be the hapless guy because I'd done that on stage a good bit. And, um, but it didn't happen. I played powerful people too.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And okay. So the, the looks thing, you never, you didn't worry about it for, for how to, how is it dealing with, with your wife's an actress? Do you have to sort of, how do you, how do you, cause it is significantly worse for women. And how do you, how do you guys broach that?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think for women, it's a struggle, always. I think there's nothing more powerful than a beautiful young woman. I mean, the world bows down to them.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
But I think the rough thing is in their lives, too, when they have to say goodbye to the maidenhood, when they have to say goodbye to the young, bright thing. And they go to motherhood and middle age and everything. But I think Felicity's been really good at embracing where she is. I mean, there's a great story about Desperate Housewives when she had to read for that.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And when she went to meet Mark Cherry, we had two kids in diapers, and she took some time to put herself together and wash her hair and do everything. And when she got the role, Mark said, it's just you came in and you were –
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
such a mess such a typical mom you know with your hair and there was stuff on your and that's her putting herself together yeah so she's embraced it this show is sponsored by better help hey who's your support system and how have they changed your life sometimes you don't got a support system we're we're more and more isolated we've backed ourselves into corners about who we pretended to be and uh sometimes your therapist is like your is your support system
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'm sorry, fellow actors, but it's true. And it's true with me too. A lot of times that deep thought is just, the fuck is that word? Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Me and therapy, synonymous. I had therapy this week. Guys, I'm back in. I go in and out. And it was helpful. We actually argued a lot, which, you know, can you believe it? Me arguing with a therapist? I've been in therapy a ton. I'm no longer dealing with my trauma. I'm just dealing with regular, you know, regular stuff, work, lady, family, etc. It's helped me make boundaries.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I don't know why we got a sponsor and, uh, and it's, it's Ridge wallet and I've had it for a couple of days. This is it. I'm a, usually I'm like a, like what you'd call like a Costanza wallet kind of guy. you know, the old taped up. I got a lot of reward membership programs. Most of my wallets have looked like they had a tumor of some kind.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
They weren't morbidly obese, but they were like the kind of 65 year old guy with the giant pot belly. That's kind of, and then Ridge came along and this is it. I got everything in here. I don't understand why I didn't, why I haven't had a wallet like this for my whole life. It was time for an upgrade, and I made the upgrade. This is the Ridge Wallet.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
But the idea that you like... So when you say you really like it when it's your turn, do you ever judge yourself for that? Is that a lack of generosity on your part as an actor? Isn't the ideal of acting in the moment, in the space, feeling the scene out, but you're saying in some ways like, no, I'm concerned about doing my part of this job.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
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Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them my show sent you. Ridge.com slash NEAL. I'm NEAL. Get a Ridge wallet. I did. You were sort of a late father? 50 years old when I had kids. And did it make a difference?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yes. I did the typical thing of as soon as we had a kid, I went, oh, my God, money, money, money, money. And I took everything. I took every single job that came along. And I was at a hot point in my career. And Felicity still pissed off that I was gone so much when the kids were very young. I don't know. All's well that ends well. My daughters are such fine women. I have to credit Felicity who's
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
an astounding mom, a complicated mom too, and a working mom. So they got the best of everything.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
When you say complicated mom, what kind of parent are you? When you say complicated mom, I would assume you're a complicated dad or no? No, I'm pretty simple.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I've been a little distant. Because I am. I have few close friendships. She, on the other hand, has very close friendships and is great at keeping friendships alive. And motherhood was so complicated for her. And she was very candid about it. She had a blog talking about... There are some women that have children and they relax. They think this is all they wanted in their lives.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And they're telling the truth. And there are the vast majority of women who feel like they just got hit by a truck that nobody told them it was going to be this hard. And no matter how much you say, it's not forever. It's only for the next 20 years.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Impossible to believe that in any circumstance. And she was a hands-on mom. But not Pollyannish, not like this is what I always wanted or this is what I always wanted. It's just way harder than I wanted.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yes, it's way harder and angry, angry with the lack of support, both societal and also in the child-rearing business, you know, pediatricians and all, you know, people... And basically, there was a lot of pressure, the way she describes it. There was a lot of pressure to love it, to love it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And she didn't love it. She loved the daughters, but she found it to be- It's punishing.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's relentless. I don't have a kid, but my girlfriend has a four-year-old, and I'm the youngest of 10, and I used to slag my parents and all this stuff. And I've literally apologized to my mom in the last few months. I'm like, I had no idea what it was like. Did it change your opinion about your parents? Did it change your feeling about life in general? Like, oh, this was- This is a huge shift.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No, no. The part of this job that I love when I say that is... There's a lot of, as you will know, there's a lot of people on that set and it's hustle and bustle. And at one point it gets quiet and no one gets to go home until we actors do it right. And that's what I'm calling my turn.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. Well, I feel like when you have a baby, you should get, like civilized countries do, they should get... Time off. Two months, four months, six months paid leave.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
department of babysitters to help cut the cost down i mean it's what could be more important than raising your children and we don't spend a lot of energy and time on it as a society yeah we just leave it to the moms totally agreed i took my kids skiing one time i said um i'm gonna take sophia and georgia skiing they were they were uh eight and ten or seven and nine something like that
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And she said, you are? And I said, yeah, I can do it. I've seen you do it. Oh my God. I wrote a thing about it. It was a disaster. It was such a disaster. How could it not be? How could it not be?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
one person one man two kids yeah who doesn't do that often first time you know i i learned from the best and so just like felicity did we set up their clothes the night before i laid them all out on the floor i got up early gave them breakfast we got to the mountain we were when we finally got in the car they said i'm hungry and i looked at the clock we'd started at 8 00 a.m
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I had to pull back into the driveway and give them lunch. We got to the mountain with about enough time to do two runs.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And was that easy? No, they were mad at me. I was mad at them. They're still mad at me about that. Apparently I call them numb nuts. They were fighting in the back and I said, were you numb nuts? Shut up. They were mad and I finally said, okay, your mom wouldn't have done that, right? And she said, no. I said, what would she have done?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And they said, she would have figured out how to stop fighting. I said, well, that's not going to happen with me because your fights are so boring. I don't know. I'm sorry. I just find it boring. I was a little too honest with my kids.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. Sophia one time came in and she was despondent. She said, I have so much homework. I have all this homework. I can't get it done. And when I get it done, then there's another day. And I said, honey, get used to it. This is life. It's not going to get better. And she said, why would you say that to me? Why would you say that? So I thought, okay.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And I took her over and we took a long walk and we talked about life and we talked about this. And I said, listen, I'll write you a note. Go back, do an hour of homework and I'll write and say, you got sick. I'll get you out of school or I'll write you an excuse. She said, thank you. Thank you. She went into her room for 30 minutes. She came out and she said, it's done. I said, no, do it all.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's our turn. Okay. And this notion of imaginary circumstances, it just... It's always been a good place for me. I really, really like it. Which is not to say I don't get nervous, I do. Which is not to say I don't get frightened, I do. But nerves and fright can sometimes debilitate you and they don't me. It brings me up.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
She said, I did it all. Do you think it was just reframing it for her? I think she lost her shit and she had 30 minutes worth of homework to do. And she described it as four hours and treadmill. And I, I was smart enough to not to say anything, but. You strike me as a guy that's probably too honest fairly often.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. I'm. I'm blunt. Do you think that had an effect on the amount of friends you have?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'm sure I've said things that cost me a friendship. They just drift away.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
What do you think people say about you? What do you think people that don't like you say about you?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I don't know. I'm on social media, but I never read what anyone says.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah, I've heard it. I've heard that I'm really rough and I don't fight fair. And early on, every once in a while, my good friend Greg Mosher, who ran the Goodman in Chicago and then Lincoln Center, innocently said, Billy, I figured out why directors find you so difficult to work with. And I don't know what he said after that because my ears were ringing.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I had no idea that that was my reputation, but it was. The aforementioned doing everybody's job except my own, it was that.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Do you think there's something honorable about it? No. Okay, so you're just like, no, these are character flaws and full stop.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
11. Who's counting? Well... um he's also uh got a alcohol he's going to tell us all about he's an interesting unique guy he's a wood woodsman woodcraft and craftsman carpenter carpenter and uh we have nice chemistry i think so far and his name he already told you bill macy welcome sir it's good to be here um now bill
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well... I guess I'm not being honest. No. There's a big thing in my family. We talk about this. If you got to say, you're fired, how do you do it? And the female way, perhaps, but certainly the women I know begin with, hi, how you doing? How are the kids? Listen, we've been doing it. And I say, that's not the way to do it. You say, hi, you're fired. And then you do the nice stuff.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Lead with the hard thing. Because everybody knows they're being played. How are you? You look good. You lost weight, didn't you? Listen, we've been thinking about – and it's not you. We've been thinking about – They know they're being good and I find it personally outrageous. I would much prefer, hey, we're going to fire you and here's why.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And then get all the good stuff and maybe then I can hear it and maybe even believe some of it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think I'm with you, but I don't want the second part. Just go, I'm fired. I go, okay. It's like when you break up with somebody, you go, we're going to still be close friends. No, you're not. This is over. I may never see you again. Isn't that fucking weird? It's when they say, it's not you. It's me.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah, it's you. I almost feel like that runs counter to your story about your daughter. It may run counter to your story about your daughter, meaning... You were pretty empathetic. I was.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
After the fact, after I told her, this is your life, babe, get used to it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. Do you think that she, what did she take from it? Did she take that this is life is hard and continuous?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's a great question and it's ongoing. I think Felicity and I are good parents because I'm not good with empathy and I'm not good with blanketing people with unconditional love when they're hurting. She is perfect at that and knows intuitively what to say On the other hand, there are times
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
In parenting, I think where you got to go, hold on, you're flying in the face of reality and I'm not going to support it because I love you and it ain't going to work. It won't work now. It won't work in the future. It's never worked in the past. I'm the reality guy.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. I mean, I hate to be simplistic about it, but that kind of seems like masculine, feminine or father, father, mother. And I don't, it may be, it's the natural order of things. The last 20 years would say it's unnatural, but, but it may be that, but I find that that's kind of how, how we have chemicals that do that. Yeah. And they have chemicals that do empathy.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
We were very assiduous about the screeners this year for the voting for the Academy Awards, all the award shows. So I watched all the movies. And there were four or five of them, you're going to ask me to name them and I can't, that were about mother-daughter relationships. And oh, Lord, they just slew me. It's so...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Do you think it has to do with the parts you're playing? Do you know what I mean? They're pretty vulnerable people in general.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think, you know, I've heard guys in war, when they get killed, the last thing they do is scream for their moms. The mother-daughter relationship is so complicated. Sons and mothers is complicated too, but at least I can understand that when I can see it. But they're so complicated and mothers are... they're magical.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. I, I always have a thought that like men have, women are faced significantly more oppression than men. And in general, it seems worse, but they have such a rich emotional portfolio that it's, it's like, this is even,
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
yes yes i kind of feel that way like no this is about even like you guys get so much we have like muscles and all that but like what you guys have is is uh i don't think it's i think it's about it's pretty compensatory yes um all right i want to go let's just like talk do a speed round very quickly okay fargo any thoughts
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
They're all different kinds. I've certainly played the hapless fellow who gets the shit kicked out of him. But I've played powerful people and I've played funny people and sad people. I've played bold and I've played meek. That doesn't matter. It's the whole notion of putting yourself in the imaginary circumstances and letting it go.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I saw it recently in a theater with people. It's a brilliant movie. Everybody is so good in it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It had been 30 years you hadn't seen it? Were you scared to watch it?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
A little trepidatious. There were scenes that I remembered that I thought, oof, I wish I had done that differently. During the strike, there was a thing where they would say, we'll pay you to do a little tour.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
We'll screen the film. You do a Q&A. Seemed like a good idea when no one was working.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Turns out 10 times the money wouldn't have been enough. It was rough. What was rough about it? Traveling and talking to people. I'm not good at that. But I was knocked out by the film. It's a great film. I'm so proud. Changed my life. Absolutely.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Hard to get? I worked hard at it. All those stories about me going back and back and back are true.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And then it's one of those things that is absolutely worth it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Oh, yes. I have a little cabin in Vermont, and I was there. It was in January when I got the call. It was wicked cold outside, and it's a tiny little cabin. It's about the size of this room. And I didn't have a girlfriend or anything. And I got the phone call. I got Fargo. And I had nothing else to do except put on all the coats I had and go outside and scream.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I was just running around the property in the deep snow screaming.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And it wasn't like... destined to be you know it wasn't like other than it was good material but it wasn't like well the Coen brothers everything they do is a hit that was kind of their first like they had done indie stuff that was popular but this was like their first big hit
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I, I flatter myself that I'm pretty good at reading scripts. And I, if I'm going to be honest, I knew it was going to be huge. Absolutely had no doubts. It was Joel and Ethan. They had enough money to make it. Um, it was the role of this century. I absolutely understood it. Every nuance. I was ready to act it after the first reading.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Uh, boogie nights. He is such fun to work with. I got the script. I was working elsewhere. I got the script, which was much racier than the final film. And I thought I was being punked because it was a porn script. It was racy stuff in there. And I called my agent and said, is this a joke? And they said, no, no, they're making it. It's got to be... R-rated, that's in the contract.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I hope Paul doesn't take offense at this, but I wanted it so much when I realized it's a great role. All the roles were great. A great story. And so I met with him at the Formosa Cafe and I had prepared my... of why it should be me, the through line of the character, what I think you're trying to get at and all this stuff. And Paul started talking and I couldn't get a word in edgewise.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He was telling me he was going to shoot it. And at a point I realized, oh my God. I've got the role. He's auditioning. He wasn't sure I was going to take it. It's the first time in my career it had ever happened. And I remember, this is a visual, but I remember going, Okay, tell me more. I sat back and I thought, I love this position.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
My favorite kind of actor is the one that the way I describe it is he or she just doesn't give a shit. Like me, don't like me. Approve of what I'm doing or don't approve. I don't care. This is what I'm going to do. They just don't care. And it makes them bulletproof and it makes them magnificent.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
The set was so much fun. Bert was a jerk, but there you go. But that cast, those people, they're the best of the best. And it's kind of mammoty. Very mammoty. Yeah. But completely original also. You, Ricky... Oh, Ricky Jay, rest in peace. And Phil Hoffman, he was the best of us, boy. That guy, what a tragedy.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Okay, you're a great actor. Everyone says Phil's the best, or he's on the list. Why? Just as a fan, what is it as an actor that you go, fuck, that guy's good?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He has just abundant loads of talent, just raw talent as a mimic, as anything you want. Got it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
The aforementioned, he don't give a shit. He's going to do what he's going to do. You can think whatever you want, but he's so self-assured. Even when he did Capote, it was without looking down. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And it's not right, because a lot of times when I think about quality, I think about can they do rewrites quickly? Do you think he could do that? Or is it just he can take the text and crush it? He can take the text and crush it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I did Magnolia and Boogie Nights with him, and I have no memory of him saying, could you change this line or whatever? nope he took what he had and he just made it great also his emotional life just showed if he felt it you could see it on his face he's just one of those lucky actors that is um a raw nerve and you think that that's it's i i'm not a blessing in life
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Probably not. No, but, but it is, it's one of the, as an actor, you go, man, have you ever tried to get raw or raw or, and I don't even know how, how you would approach that. Like, I'm asking that as like, is that a thing a person could do? I think so.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
As I said, sometimes I need to go deeper, you know, find where it touches me and go there a little bit and access some of my pain a little bit more. But also... I think for a long time I was a dutiful actor, and maybe it's because Dave was my teacher and he's the greatest writer of our time, so I would dutifully learn the lines and I was slavish to them. And not everybody writes like Dave.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
So there were some scripts, and it's ad-libbing after a fashion, but it's just rounding it out. You know, don't... I was so precise with the script, and... I don't know if that fits the definition of raw, but perhaps it's more realistic, make it a little more ragged around the edges and realistic.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Did you, okay, so you started, I mean, not started, but a lot of your early stuff was with Mamet, right? Right. He, I've read a bunch of his books. He has a very outside-in approach. to acting right he his it seems to be just appear that you're experiencing the thing that you i need you to experience it's not he doesn't seem to care about process at all
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Do you do that by kind of thinking and trying to embody something?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, my technique is you don't have to feel anything. That will happen... whether you want it to or not, including those times when you think you feel nothing. It's not nothing. And like Phil Hoffman, you know, there's no such thing. It's nothing with him. There's just so much going on. And the camera is really good at finding it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And if you've got talent at this, it just comes out, irrespective of your efforts to keep it bottled up. Yeah. I figure out what the character wants, which is one question. This is what Dave Mamet brought to it. There's a difference between what the character wants and is doing than what the actor is doing. They're... They're very similar, but they're not the same.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And one of them requires belief and the other one doesn't. And one of them you need the script to win or lose, and the other one you don't. You don't need a set, you don't need a camera, you don't need anything. So...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
you know hamlet's saying to his guys swear to me you won't say that you saw this ghost and he keeps saying swear swear swear and um the notion is um to translate that into something that you can do You and me, if you're one of the soldiers, you and me can do it right here to say it's as if. You're not saving the kingdom. That's all imaginary. It's as if.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
understand the nature of swearing it's like don't tell my girlfriend it's not that it's very important you come up with something and that's what you're you're getting a pledge let's say and the difference i'm not explaining this well but the difference is um if you have an action that you can accomplish without preparation and without props then you'll know when you've done it
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And conversely, you'll know when you haven't done it. And the only way to know the difference of the two is for me to watch you like a hawk and measure you. And everything I do depends on what you do, which is the essence of acting. I want this, you want that. And I'm measuring you to figure out how to outsmart you, how to say this line. Well, what do you want?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
That's why the whole thing about looking like a doctor or acting like a king, what's a doctor? It's undefinable. Some of them are lotharios and some of them are jerks and some of them are ugly and some of them are beautiful and some of them, you know, anything. You go to med school, that's what makes a doctor.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Are you interested in sociology as a function of the job or anyway?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think so. Those truths that we all hold. I once heard someone say to Mamet, Well, you're lying for a living, really. That's what an actor does. I mean, it's not really your name. They're not your lines. They're not clothes, are they? So you're telling lies. And Dave very quietly said, no, no, no, no, no. No, we tell the truth for a living. That's what we do. We tell the truth.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
He said, but they're not your lines. He said, yeah, yeah, that's just the play. Those are just the words. But what we do is tell the truth. That's why I love you can mean everything from fuck you to marry me. The same freaking line. It's what you want, which informs it of how you say it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
70 you're 70 you're gonna be 75 that thing about what you're like people what people have issues with you wish you were nicer do are do you look back in your life and wish that there was a your character had been different or are you pretty resigned or accepting of who you were and who you are
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No, he does. And he's the smartest guy I've ever met when it comes to technique. Please tell me about that because that wasn't my understanding. I met him at Goddard College, a little hippie school up in Vermont that sadly no longer exists. But there were no rules. No tests, no grades, no nothing. It was the height of the hippie educational movement.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I don't think anyone changes. The Catholics say you're cooked at seven. I don't think we change much. And I do know this, and other people say this, when you change, it's only when there is absolutely no alternative. When you have no choice, you can change a little bit. I think the big task of living these lives we live is accepting ourselves. I have so many regrets and you do it too.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You wake up in the middle of the night and you think what you did to that girl, that you lied to her and you go, oh God, oh God, it's not fixable. And I think the task is to accept I can be that way. That's, I can be that way. There's no way to make yourself so you're not that way. You can only arm yourself a little bit by knowing, well, that's my propensity. And that's the only thing.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Let's just do it less if possible. So regrets, guilt, I don't think they're useful emotions. I try to stay away from them. How's Felicity feel about that? She struggles with it. And we talk about it a lot, you know.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It could be. I think there's a difference between apologizing and regrets. I mean, regrets are, I don't know, maybe this is just the way we hold these words, but an apology is for the other person. Regrets is something you carry with you all the time. And guilt. I think it's been, I think maybe I think this because one thing I know about acting is that when the scene's over, you better leave it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It's a disease. You get in the car and you go, fuck, now I know how to play that scene. Well, that must have been nice watching Fargo and being like, that was fucking pretty good.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. All that dumb regret or second guessing. Maybe you didn't on that one.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
But the point is, don't worry about stuff you can't do anything about because I can worry myself into a coma. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. Yeah. Seabiscuit. Seabiscuit and let's do Seabiscuit and Pleasantville. Same writer, correct? Gary Ross.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Fabulous director. Man, in Pleasantville, when that sign came out, no coloreds allowed. I thought that was the most sublime bit of writing I'd ever seen.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
um for our listeners pleasantville is about um these two kids toby mcguire and reese witherspoon get sucked into the tv in this 1950s show called pleasantville where it's black and white and uh there's a glitch in the universe and they know who they are in this imaginary world and as they eat from the tree of knowledge, or actually they bring the knowledge with them, they start to turn colors.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
There's a great scene where Joan Allen is married to me and someone mentions an orgasm and she is flummoxed by it. And Reese Witherspoon says, mom, don't you know about the bathtub? And it cuts to Joan in the bathtub and she goes, oh my, oh my. And Gary cut to a tree outside which burst into flames. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And Dave had just gone to the neighborhood playhouse for a year, wasn't invited back, came back to Goddard where he had graduated and started teaching essentially the Meisner technique, which is Stanislavski method. And he put his stamp on it. So he's big on technique. But his technique is about... In order, what is the playwright trying to say? What is the task?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And the kids, when they discover sex and longing and all of this stuff, they turn colors. They become color. And the whole town's up in arms. Half the town wants it black and white, and the other half says, no, let's turn color. And so a sign appears in the drugstore, no colors allowed.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
That was a bit, you got to be Lutheran in that movie. Yeah. Lutheran and Pollyanna. Yeah. Yes, yes. Both of them, right? I mean, Seabiscuit's
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No, he's a snake, the guy in Tick Tock McLaughlin. Gary Cain said, I got the best role for you. And it was. When I speak, and it's something that's bugged me my whole career, I have a tendency to speak slowly and with measured tones. And I put improbable, I'm doing it now, pauses that I don't understand. And that character was just rat-tat-tat. Yeah.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Was that fun to do? It was great fun to do. It was hard for me. And you had sound effects? Yeah. I worked at it a lot because it was a hat trick to talk that fast and do all of that stuff. I had to really get it down.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And let's... Wild... I mean, well, shameless. That's where you figure it. You put it together.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
We are dinosaurs, my friend. And a big fat comet is headed for our sweet slice of earth. Yeah. it was such a mitzvah for me because I, I loved those people. I was really proud to be in it because of the stories we told. Um, um, I, I loved, uh, the shameless attitude towards sex, which is, it's just something we all do calm down. It was so great. And, um,
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You know, Shameless sort of got in under the wire before we became so politically correct. And I don't like it. I was really proud to be in Ricky Stanicki because we're going back to those raunch comms, as they call it. I think we've got to do that, especially in this day and age. We should be able to laugh about everything.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
It doesn't mean you have to, but we have to be allowed to. Yeah, you can. Yeah, it has to be an option. Yeah. What's the story with the Woody Crick?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
So I live in Woody Creek and Mark Kleckner, one of the founders, they were growing potatoes in our yard. And I asked my brother-in-law who lives there and he said, yeah, I made a deal with Woody Creek Distillery that they could use that pasture to grow potatoes.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And it was about a week later that Mark Kleckner came in and said, Bill, I don't know if you know this, but we have a distillery down in Basalt. I said, yeah. Stop right there, Mark. I'm in. So just like almost every other actor in the country, I have I'm the spokesperson for Woody Creek Distillers. And I've had the best time, one, because I love spirits. I'm a big drinker.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'd like to double down on aging well. Yes. If you drink a bunch and you still look this good at 75, God bless something.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Well, half my friends don't drink enough and the other half drink too much. So I'm straddling that fence. I also started, the pandemic hit a month after I got the job as their spokesperson. So for that year, there was nothing to do. So I wrote a song about the Woody Creek Tavern, which is a famous tavern, Hunter S. Thompson fame.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And the pandemic and Felicity shot it on an iPhone and we edited it and put it online and people liked it a lot. Yeah. So I play ukulele. I used to play guitars, but I've got arthritis in my fingers. So I play ukulele a lot. And I started writing songs about 15 years ago for my daughters and my wife, birthday songs. And some of them are quite elaborate.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
So one a year for each of them? Yeah. I kept that going for about four or five years. And then when I got the gig with Woody Creek Distillers, I gave up the birthdays. Now I write about alcohol. And so I write these songs and every once in a while I perform at the distillery or when we go selling our hooch in the various states. Sometimes I'll play a little song for them. And it's very winning.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
What is your task according to the playwright? And to translate that into something that you can do in real time in front of people and you can succeed at it or fail at it. It's specific and it takes a bit of time to analyze these scripts a la his technique. What you're referring to is that he freed us all up of feeling anything, which is genius. You don't have to believe it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And if I do say so, the songs are... really kind of good turns out i love writing lyrics that's funny it's so i i it seems like it's it it's going well for you yeah life is sweet i'm still working did a bunch of films just before christmas i was in this thing do you do you get tired of the sort of
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I guess you wouldn't worry anymore, but you want to keep working. Does, do you, do you get tired of the state of like looking at the phone or is that not what it is?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
No, I still worry. Um, after shameless, I thought I would be in some form of retirement, but turns out That was not satisfying. Also, it turns out I'm not as rich as I thought I was. How'd you find that out? The pills. No, I want to work. And... I worry about it less because it doesn't help. And John Burnham is my manager and he's magnificent and he keeps coming up with stuff.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I just did a film called Train Dreams, which is really good. It sold for a whole bunch of money at Sundance. That's going to be in, I guess, theaters soon. That was a really sweet film. And I've got my hand in. I seem to be the king of, we only need you for two days. but one of the problems is they think, Oh, he's so good. It's three days worth of work. He can do it in two days.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And I keep saying, I'll take the money, but can I have an extra day? Um, so I've done a bunch of films where they're, they pack in these scenes and they're, they're, it's a good role and it's changes the plot, but, um, The worst day on a film is the first day because you're lost. You don't know anybody.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And a lot of times they've been shooting all along and it's a family that you're not a member of. And the next bad day on a set is the last day because it's sad and it's you're hoping you did well. And that's all I do is the bad days, the first and the last day.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Are you going to do it until you cannot do it anymore? Is that the you think?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I guess so. As long as there are roles that blow up my skirt a little bit, I'll do it. I'm still upright and I can still remember the lines. So I see no reason to stop.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Did you expect this? Did you expect to be like, I'm going to be busy when I'm 75?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I don't know if I expected it, but I wished it and I had faith. I had faith. I'm a serendipitous. And there are some interesting roles out there for people of a certain age. It's good. I like to joke that. one of the good things about getting old is when I hear the idiotic things, my young friends say, it just makes me, but it's, it's nice. I'm, I'm in a good position. I'm on every set.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'm usually the oldest guy now, but I'm the, the ominous grease, you know, the old gray hair guy. And, um, so I get listened to and great respect. And, um, I have gotten better at it, and so I feel like I'm doing some pretty good work.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Who am I to disagree? Bill Macy, ladies and gentlemen, the serendipitous. Yes, this has been lovely. Thank you. Thanks for coming back.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And it couldn't matter less because the reality of storytelling is that the audience wants to jump in And they only won't jump in and have an experience if you give them reasons not to. And so put a crown on me and a cloak and put me on a throne and announce me as the king. I'm the king. I don't have to think like a king. I don't have to feel like a king.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I don't have to convince them, the audience, that I'm a king. I'm the king. The most important question is what are you going to do?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Did you, okay, so if you feel like I'm the king, would you say that his method is your method or was that just? Absolutely. Okay, so you sort of assume there's going to be a buy-in from the audience.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah, they got in their cars and came there. Sometimes they spent a whole lot of money on the ticket. They want it to be good and they want to believe and they want to have an experience. They want to suspend all their disbelief and go on a wild ride.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
A whole lot. You're a comedian. The best jokes are the ones that have the fewest words possible. I know. I still can't get over it. I know. You just give your listener, your audience, every single thing they need and not a syllable more. That's the best joke. And... So you spend your time, how does the king feel? How would the king dress? It's wasted energy.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Do you find when you, if you're working with somebody else in there, you can tell they're doing that? Do you just stay out? Just like, you know what, Bill, that's their process. Don't get, let's just do the scene. I do now.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
From the outside in, it looks like things are going pretty well for you, for your life. It's correct. They are. Are you surprised or did you always think it might go well? Great question.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
i was a jerk when i was a young actor i was a jerk and um you know we're going to talk about blocks to creativity and one of the blocks i had was i i worried about everyone's job and it made me mad when i didn't think they were doing a good job and um with maturity i
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
if I may. Please, because I still suffer from this. It's a hard thing not to meddle.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I know, but it's not our job. I did 11 years on Shameless and that's where I really learned how to act. I had a lot of theories, but the thing about Shameless was that it ran 11 years. So if you blew that scene, there's another scene coming, calm down. And if you blew the whole episode, there's another episode coming. And if you blew the whole year, also you just get exhausted.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And I realized if I'm worried about my fellow actor, and that he or she isn't doing a good job, dollars to donuts, I'm not doing a good job. Because my energy is being wasted on something I have no control over.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Oh, it's a blessing. It's just a blessing. the amount of scenes you're shooting in a day. Yeah, because it's your first impulses always, which are the best.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think one of the hardest things in acting, truly, is knowing when to quit. You do the moment, and if it's full and it's there, stop. Don't try to do it better. there was a great moment.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Uh, the shameless style of shooting was we had two camera crews all the time and, uh, we call it shameless shooting, but, uh, they would, they would shoot each other sometimes because we would do, there'd be a three page scene and it starts in the kitchen and it goes upstairs and then back down and then into the living room. We do them all as one.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And the poor camera crews were racing ahead, racing to keep. And I'd hear the guys, the, the, the camera guys go, I'm, I'm tired of shooting him. I'm going to shoot her. Okay. You shoot her. I'm going to take him. And the director is just sitting there going, okay, okay. As opposed to the curated thing, you know, that's off the shot list.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I'm a serendipitist, as my grandmother said when I was about five years old. Literally.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
And in the third episode of the first season, I went to the DP and I said, when are we going to get to my moment? And he said, what moment? And I said, you know, this, when I say that. And he said, oh, dude, you're done. That was the second shot. And it was liberating. Oh, great. Because...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
immediately or were you pissed and then it was literally no no it was one of those kadoing moments where i saw reality because i was intimately aware that um
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
You do the scene and if it just breaks out this way that everyone shoots their stuff first and you're last, when you get to that moment, you've done it a dozen times for other people's coverage and because it's your close-up, I'm going to do it a little better. Right. It's a recipe for disaster. You can't do it better. Just keep doing it. There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only...
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
She said, Billy, you're a serendipitist. Do you know what that is? I said, no. She said, one to whom good things happen. I've been a lucky guy. I mean, there have been bumps in the road. And I wrote a song. I said, and my tragedies were more dramatic than true.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
full or i don't know what it is but change it up every time and just do what's required and don't try to add to it are there any can you think of any anecdotes where you were sort of worried about somebody else's business or coverage or or or just in a movie or whatever where you and then you're like you realize like fucking just do your job bill
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah, the first half of my career. I was just an angry artist and pissed off all the time. And it just didn't help. I mean, and we've all had this experience. Somebody's on the set and you go, he's not doing anything, man. That is flat. God, every time the scene comes to him, the lines come to him, this thing just deflates. And then you see the cut, you see the movie and he's great.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Yeah. And what do you consider the first and second half of your career? Because you had a lot of... I mean, you got nominated for Academy Award in 1996. Were you any good at acting then?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
I think I have a certain talent for it, and that's God-given. In terms of technique... I would say Shameless changed everything because I got my 10,000 hours in.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
Did it become easier to be you as a person? Yeah. Oh, you mean off screen? Yeah, like if you're an angry artist all the time, or at least at work, were you like that in your regular life?
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
That's a question for the family, but I'm pretty sure they would say, yeah, he calmed down a whole lot.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
and then it just doesn't help okay you want an anecdote um it's at a certain point uh when saturday night live hit television just descended on it and all the comedians got uh tv shows and it's still going on that we do we make the movie around a comedian and um i swear i when i see a film I can tell where the script ends and where they ad-lib. I can just tell you I'd put serious money on it.
Blocks w/ Neal Brennan
William H. Macy
because it's really funny and then their ad libs sometimes ruin the scene because they're putting a hat on a hat on a hat. And because it screws with the rhythm of the thing. You did that joke, move on. You don't have to do it three times. There are exceptions to everything, but this is another Dave-ism. It's not an actor's job to be funny. It's the writer's job to be funny.