William Martin
Appearances
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I will admit as an adult, I sometimes have to remind myself I'm supposed to be doing that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. But I also have to like, I haven't been to the dentist in like three years. I got to fix that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I've never had a cavity. The closest thing I had to a cavity was when the dentist was like, Hey, this might turn into a cavity. So I'm just going to fill it. And then recently a study came out and apparently that happens all the time to people who don't even have cavities because dentists need a reason to have you come visit twice a year.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
yeah a lot of them over prescribe i'm on the other end i yeah i definitely have had a lot what's what's really funny though i've had zero cavities in my life i have a chipped tooth that didn't chip from me hitting it it just disintegrated but there's no cavity this one see
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's not bothering me now. I should go to the, I need to go to the dentist. I'm aware of that fact. Stop looking at me like that. You look like my mom.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's because I didn't want to spend the money. Also, I'm kind of like short of breath and coughing again, so I should go back to see the doctor.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Amanda's complaining it's been three hours.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We're getting through it. There were an unexpected number of super chats, Amanda.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We have a video on it. There's a really good article on it. God, I cannot remember the name of the paper. I'll find it for you, though. It's a magazine, not a paper. But yeah, he's just a park ranger who just disappears in the park on a routine patrol. And they came up with all these possible different reasons. And you look at it, and it's like, he probably just left.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Bert, I'm just going to, anytime I see a name that has anything close to Brandon or Swanson in it, I'm just going to send it your way because Branson, you just mashed them together here. Pretty much.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
HR is like... Oh, HR is like into the negative 471 Kelvin or whatever the number is. They're borderline absolute zero. Yeah. If you work in HR, I'm not going to apologize. I'm just going to ask why.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I can certainly do that. The Ozarks do be wild. They do be do be do. Aiden Patco says, You'll have a cult competition up here. Be warned. You'll have cult competition up here. I believe it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I know you wouldn't. Wait, no women and children as in no women and children involved in combat? Correct. Okay, yeah, definitely.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
No, they can be in the... I was going to say, they can be in the ranch. Colt. You know what? You know what? I was talking to Amanda about this. Here's what I'm going to do. I am going to make it so sus. It's going to be so culty from the outside. And then, like, somebody's going to infiltrate, right? They're going to be getting the scoop of their life. They're going to come in.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They're going to be, like, you know, finally initiated. It's like, okay, you can come to the meeting. They get to the meeting. Like, it's like a church. It's like a Catholic mass. And it seems really culty. And then they go up to do communion. And instead of bread and wine, they get a carrot and ranch meal.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And we just never really let them see the inner circle. Yeah, exactly. Which is, you know, of course, celery and blue cheese.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
No, no, no, no. The wings are when you get into the inner circle where you have wings and Thousand Island dressing.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yes. We get the wings. Nobody else gets the wings. We get the wings.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
All right. Somebody else said video on the Springfield 3. Guess I'm doing a video on the Springfield 3. Seems like it. Gaius Rax. I'm going to need something less heart-rending after I finish jumping it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'll keep you on the short list. Why don't you guys get like World of Warships or something and you can make this a thing?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Holdfast has naval modes. Is it clunky as all hell? Yes. Is it fun? Absolutely.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Even on the Appalachian Trail, which has some pretty decent markers, they're still hard to read because it's carved, not painted.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
What math teacher is getting up there like, so if you have 16 terrorists and 2,097 people in a plane going 400 miles an hour, at what speed does it impact the South Tower?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, somebody who was in his training cadre in the Park Service was sitting at a bar basically on the border. And he looks across, and there's Paul Fugate sitting there having a beer. They make eye contact. Fugate puts the beer down and leaves. If it's him. But to me, that suggests it was probably him.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Absolutely. The one thing I will say is for some reason, they deliver things onto our back parking lot instead of our front porch here. So if you do send something that is paper, wrap it in cellophane.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, that was entirely the right thing to do. I made fun of it a little bit, but no. We've had a few times where they've just left something out where it could easily get rained on, even though you can so very easily leave something on our front porch. We have a driveway in the front.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think that... I genuinely think a lot of these legends are related to tribes. Just un... What?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And that's what we'll do at the ranch. We'll put the children into the mines.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. We make a video parodying Brandon Herrera. There we go. And then we shoot it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The AK-12. I shot my friend with an AK-28.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I understand it's in jest. I just can't read it. Yeah, we can't read that. Miss Mori, for $2, says dentist. Dentist.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
doesn't hurt now will suddenly later yes i know i've been a bad boy but here's the thing i was planning to go to the dentist and then my dentist got accused of some not very good things and it turned out to not be true at all but i i didn't go to the dentist it turned out to be complete bullshit well that's good
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think Kevin Costner may have had a very positive impact on the show.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, well, so, like, you know how we were talking about how it got a little soapy? Yes. It is, like, straight soap opera dialogue. Really?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's worst in episode 9. I haven't seen episode 11 yet. We've seen episode 9 and episode 10. Episode 10 was better than episode 9.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You know how for four and a half seasons of the show, nothing happens? Yes. And yet you're still riveted? No.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Okay. So fine. Like the first three seasons, nothing happens. You're still riveted. You season four, you're, you're invested.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yes. That like it's not a show where you're watching for, you know, intense new action each week. It's not like Criminal Minds. It's not like God, what's another high tier streaming thing right now? Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. Not like you. It's not where each episode there's like a ton of plot going on. It's really fast paced and keeping it moving.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, and that was okay in seasons four and the first half of season five because the dialogue was still really good. Like, there were, you know, enough really great moments to keep it moving.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm not feeling that way right now. I'm just kind of watching it. I'm waiting for it to limp to the finish. There's a reason I haven't watched it yet. The main reason I'm still watching the show is I just want to see how Beth dies. And I'm really hoping she does, because if Taylor Sheridan does not kill that character, I'm never forgiving him. He made Wind River. How did you go from that to this?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Because in Wind River, he didn't have time to get attached to the characters. Yeah. Like, Beth was a cool character in season one. By the end of season two, you're like, okay, you're batshit insane and causing all of the problems for your family.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I wouldn't have watched that. Oh, I would have. I would watch the movie.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think that's the thing is Taylor Sheridan's really good at writing movies. I don't think he knows how to end a TV show. We'll find out. We'll find out. I'm interested in land, man. I haven't even heard of that one. That's a, it's, um, instead of a ranch, it's oil.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, it seems interesting. And from what I heard about the first episode, it was really good. I heard there was one weird moment that they were like, this felt awkward and forced. But aside from that, I've heard good things. Yeah, I mean, 1883 was phenomenal. Like, 1883 was... 1883 was a show where nothing happened and you were riveted. You've got to watch it. 1923, a little bit more fast-paced.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I was like, she has this this journalist over decades later, like the 2010s, 2020s. He goes in and he's talking to her and she's like, got clothes laid out on this chair. And she's like, these were the clothes Paul wore on, you know, the these were the clothes he had laid out as his daytime clothes. I, you know, for for when he finished up work that day.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Still solid. I think probably the best of the The set. From what I understand, there's also going to be a 1963 that I think is supposed to follow John's dad.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, wait till we get to the pastrami and Italian.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It doesn't have to be honey mustard. It can't just be honey. You ever have chicken tenders with honey? I'd prefer honey mustard.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yes. Thank you, though. That was a lot of super chats. And honestly, after the month we've had, we needed it. Yeah, we very much needed that. So thank you, guys. We really do appreciate everything. You guys being here, you know, spending three hours with us. Good Lord. Yeah. You are as insane as we are, and I love you for it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Friday, JonBenet Ramsey part one. This is going to be on the shorter side because we decided that we were going to do the theory ones, like all of the different theories of what happened in their own episode. Yes. So originally it was going to be introduction to the case, everything that happened. This one's very narrative, very narrative style.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
i i'm hoping that'll bridge the gap between the people who are more i want like folklore and mystery and the people who are more i want scientific like missing persons cases so i did i use the exact level of rigor that i usually use but i wrote it in a narrative style we also expect to try and keep that going in part two to the extent that i can
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Meanwhile, the shirt she has out didn't come out until four years after he died. Interesting. Interesting.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm gonna be honest, most of what I used Snapchat for was talking to girls, and now I have one who lives with me, so...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
fair most of mine is funny yeah videos and images between guys it's like you know how like the only thing that snapchat is useful for for me now is sending and receiving pictures of my dogs um and every time i like go over to like look at people's stories there's so many random people who have added me over the years that i don't even know who they are so i never really see the people i care about i see a few of them it's like how i keep up with a few people in my life and then of course the story section it's like hey
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I see you've marked your interests as sports, true crime, paranormal. Here's a girl in a bikini.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And they're all people that, two of them, I just saw on Friday night. I have never met somebody who is as autistic as you are without being autistic. Isn't it wild? Yeah. It's just trains. It's like just equipment.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'll take it. All right. Well, thank you, guys. It was good. It was good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. If you have not subscribed to Nick's channel, The Missing Enigma, I highly recommend doing it. If you have not subscribed to my friend Sam's channel, I highly recommend doing it, at least for the vibes.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We're hoping for 1,000 subscriptions on that channel by the end of the next week. That would be insane. That would be awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, guys, and we will see you next time.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, there's a whole thing with that. Yeah, their whole dynamic was interesting. They had a one-sided open marriage. Oh, okay, well... And he was the one who had the opening.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's like somebody, somebody is up at the top of Clingman's dome. And he's like, I'm going to, I'm going to race you guys to the parking lot. And then he disappears. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think the way I look at this is like it goes deep. They basically probably made an agreement to have him disappear. She would get the money, collect the pension, all that. He'd get to go live his life in Mexico. That's my thinking on it. But, you know, I wanted to circle back because you mentioned the FBI and Michael Bouchard and we were talking about weird cases in the Smokies.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I don't know about you, but. I do think Dennis Martin's one of the weird ones. Yeah, for sure. Not necessarily because he wasn't found or how he went missing, but largely because of what, you know, listening to your interviews with Bouchard and that I read Bouchard's books, that FBI interception of Harold Key is so weird to me.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Because if you – I did my best to triangulate where he actually had this sighting based on what he said to the paper. And then it basically put him out near Tremont.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, near the Job Corps camp. And then he goes into – and so that's east of Cades Cove. Then he's on his way. He gets intercepted by the FBI agent. It was Jim Reich, right? Yeah, I think so, yeah. Gets intercepted by the FBI agent. He gets to the park, and then he leads them west... like, two miles when he said he thought he had driven something like seven. Around the loop, right?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't know if he drove around the loop, but he might have driven around the loop. I don't know if it was one way at the time. But he basically takes him two miles southwest of the entrance to Cades Cove when he clearly described to the paper a route that took him east because he said he drove up a mountain road. There is no mountain road heading west out of the Cades Cove Visitor Center. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So his story changes aggressively. It's not like, you know, he took him the same direction for a little while.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Having been down there? Absolutely not. Okay. So that bugged me.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's it's the fact that the FBI intercepted him and then his story changed.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, that's the thing, though, is that they set up the meeting with the park service. So they knew where he was going to be in the park.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
No, I know that. I mean, like, from what I understand, what he did was he drove to Cades Cove, met up with the Rangers at the visitor center, and then took them to where he was. And I believe there was an FBI agent there too. Not Reich, Reich's partner. Yeah, so my understanding of what happened is he leaves home to drive to the park to meet up with an FBI agent and several park rangers.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Along the way, another agent intercepts him, which would actually be fairly easy to do along the road in Decades Cove because there's just all these little stops off on the side. It's one road in and out. And it takes like an hour to get there from Gatlinburg. It's crazy because this one scenic road is just people drive so slow. Right. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So he goes to drive the park, gets intercepted, gets to the park, meets with the Rangers before he goes to where the sighting supposedly happened. And then he leads them two miles west and is like, yeah, it was up that little creek right there. So that's that's what bugs me is like why that also the Green Berets.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Dude, let us know. We have plenty of B-roll if you want some. Really, for anything in the Appalachians, we have B-roll for you.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And that's that's what I did is I basically weeded everything out that I was like, this could be extraneous reporting. This could be somebody heard somebody said something. And what I got to was like, OK, he we know he headed east. We know he headed along a mountain road that is now a trail, not boat mountain road. It was a different one.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I was able to figure out that I think it was the one that goes up towards, I think, middle prong. The trail used to be a road used to be a dirt Jeep trail. So it seems like that is probably where he ended up.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You said, I think, in one of the interviews with Bouchard, because I read through the books. I didn't read them in their entirety. I kind of scanned for information that I thought I needed because I didn't have a ton of time. No, no.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's a pain. Currently on week two of JonBenet Ramsey. That's a big one, man.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, it's a really big one. I've read two and a half books. It's a big one also. It's an intense one. It's an intense one.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, I hope so. Video one is like, I don't know how long it is.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
OK, that's still short. Yeah. Part two is going to be longer. Part two is going to be so much longer. But yeah. So, I mean, but to bring it back, I, you know. I was saying something about Bouchard. You guys. Oh, I remembered it. I think he said something about he got a call a couple of years later from the FBI. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Can you tell me a little bit about that?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't know if you saw, I don't know if you saw either, Joe Scott, big channel, two and a half or so million subs, he did a video on Missing411 today, and he brought us up. No way. And I made a point to shout you out in the comments. No way. Well, thank you, man.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, since you bring up Trenny, though, I'm curious. What were your thoughts?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
um you know even though you know obviously the newspapers were telling all kinds of stories about it so that's that's the frustrating thing is like if he doesn't talk about it the newspapers are just going to start running wild that's kind of what happened um right there's all these stories that like should have been corrected you know the thing about him seeing somebody running with something slung over their shoulder like that didn't happen he never said that right
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So – but I am curious. You said – you agreed with me when I said it's one of the weird ones, but you seem to have a different reason for thinking so.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Definitely doesn't make sense either way.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. I mean, we were when we were up there, we were kind of I was looking around like, I mean, it would be possible for somebody to, you know, fall off a cliff here and disappear.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
What's weirder to me is that he wasn't found. Because basically where we were, if he had gone off the trail, if you don't have dogs, I can see how he wasn't found. If you only have 15 or 20 rangers, I can see how he wasn't found. There were 1,500 people searching this area. They were crawling all over it. They had dogs. They had army green berets. They had Rangers. They had volunteers.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They were only like, I think only a total of like 60 people looked for him for like four days.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, so part of the problem is they thought that he kept going instead of him taking a different trail to try and get home. So they were looking up at the top of the mountain and up for most of it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Lame was, that was one where we got up there and we were like, Oh, I see how this happened.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh my God. It's, I mean, we have a, we have a video on it, which has the on the ground footage, but there, when you think Alaska, you don't really think, you know, lush vegetation is, it looked the same up there that it looked in Tennessee.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I probably turned around about halfway up.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We got to stop trying to climb mountains too late in the day to be climbing mountains. No, but here's the thing.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We were about half a mile from, uh, Spence field heading up the Anthony Creek trail when I, when it got dark. Yeah. It was not good. Oh, is he frozen? Oh, I think he is frozen.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Lore Lodge podcast, where we have a very special guest tonight, one of our favorite recurring guests on the show, Nick from The Missing Enigma. Nick, you want to say hi? Hi, thank you for having me. Always good to be here. All right.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But, yeah, we were about half a mile from Spencefield Trail Shelter, and I'm just like, oh, it's dark and my leg doesn't work.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Just a number of things that we absolutely were entirely our fault. Really, mostly my fault.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's okay. I ended up forgetting the stove. I had the gas canister, but not the stove itself.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It did. We got up there. There were three other guys already there. We were like, hey, you guys mind if we make a fire to cook some food? And they were like, ah, no, we'll help you. Yeah, yeah, immediately. They were all really nice guys. Oh, yeah. It was a great time. I did. I forgot that a lot of Appalachian trail people were like, I saw a few more videos from people who were doing it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Apparently like picking a trail name is a thing. So that's why we spent the night with Aquaman. Yeah, that makes sense. So now it makes a lot more sense, but yeah. I don't know what, just one last thing about Dennis. Cause I do want to talk about Jordan. God, you were just staring at me. Can you still hear us? Just want to make sure. Nick? Oh, no. Should I just reload the page? Did they get him?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They might have gotten him. They got him. Hang on.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It could be his end. Well, now what do we do? I don't know. I'm going to shoot him a DM. Yeah, send him a message. Somehow I still don't have his number. I should probably fix that. Yeah, might be a good call.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We got you. We can see you. Perfect. Yeah, so what I was going to say, one last thing about Dennis because I really wanted to talk about Jordan. Oh, right. The Green Berets.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That is the one thing that sticks with me about it, that no matter how many times I try to rationalize what happened there, and there are ways, I get it, like, you know, oh, they figured they weren't going to find Dennis, so they decided to turn it into a training mission. But why would you do that before the search is officially over? Like, why not use...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
use that tool the entire time instead of just being like okay you guys can go do a training mission now bye because i mean in the in the park service report they have this meeting on the 20th with the national park service and they're like okay so if and when we find dennis here's how we run the op and then they are gone no more reports nothing else about what the green berets are doing like
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's like, oh, they went across Eagle Creek, they walked up it, they set up a helicopter landing spot in Haw Gap, and... That's it. Nothing else. For five days, they're just there, and then they're gone.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, that's interesting because I'm almost positive this was from Dwight McCarter's book. I wish I had it in front of me right now. But if I remember correctly, McCarter said he heard gunshots on a few occasions.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, she's not in there. It's no, no way. You know, for those who don't know, Trenny Gibson was 16 in 1975, 76, 76, 16 in 1976. She was on a school field trip in a park, Great Spooky Mountains National Park up the Clingmans Dome area, headed down to Andrews Bald. It's about a mile and a half or so of a trail and three quarters of a mile to half a mile from the parking lot.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Gotcha. Cause that seemed to be, that was a hot button. Like, were they relatives? Were they not relatives was no hard to share the same.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm sure I'll find it. So we've been there. And now I'm more confused. Because if they told him, go north and make your own way around, there's a way for him to get lost. Right. If they just told him go back to the trail shelter, all he needed to do was go downhill. Right. Like the shelter itself would not necessarily have been visible from where he was, but all he needed to do was go downhill.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, so that's the thing is if they're up there at the top and they say, Dennis, go back to the shelter. they're going to know if he went the wrong way immediately.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Her friends watch her go up around a bend, and she's never seen again. So when you say there were suspects, who did you look at?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So that would, in my opinion, probably take him out to Davenport Gap. Yeah. And towards Tremont, which lines up with the Key sighting from what I think Key saw. On the other hand, if he did go straight down the hill and he just went past the shelter because he didn't see it, that would have taken him to Eagle Creek. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yep. And guess who investigated those footprints? Who? Green Berets. That was not the Rangers. That was the Green Berets who got down there. The story from the Park Service or the FBI, I can't remember which report it was in, was like, ah, well, it was the wrong shoe size. They didn't have a shoe to compare it to.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, one foot bare, one had a shoe on it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, I could even see it being like he like took off his shoe because there was something in it and then dropped it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And then it was like chasing it down the hill and got lost.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It could have been any number of things. But no, hearing that it wasn't go that way and sneak around on them, but instead it was just go back to the shelter.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That makes the Eagle Creek thing way more feasible. Because I was so confused up there. I'm like, how do you take a wrong turn? If you're up at the trail and your plan is to come down from the north, you just do a little, you know, it's like 200 yards and then south. Super weird.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Well, I was thinking about, and I was looking at some of what you've done and I was, you know, ah, you know, it would probably help to go see, but you know, cause I think I remember you were talking about Carl Lander specifically and how that, where he went missing is just a field.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The gear is the weird part to me because a lot of hiking gear is brightly colored.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, it would have to be pretty big off the mountain.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't know what it is with people in avalanches, but a lot of people seem to think any time somebody goes missing or dies on a mountain, an avalanche had something to do with it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, yeah. The Outlaw Pass was not an avalanche. Like, definitively wasn't an avalanche. It was probably Catamount Winds.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I am still, I'm going to have to glare angrily at Isaiah next time I see him. I still haven't found a source for that weapons testing thing.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
He might not have. Well, here's the thing about Camar de Ban.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So Dyatlov was the one in the 50s. Komar-to-Ban was the 90s.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And that was southern Russia instead of northern Russia. Okay. It was a group of hikers, I think seven hikers. Six of them ended up dying. The one who survived, the story she told was, like, these people just suddenly started going insane.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's the really popular one, which is popular because of one of our good friends. And I simply disagree with him.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And then we looked into infrasound, and it turns out that katabatic winds can cause infrasound. And at a certain point, one of the things was they talked about how there were morphological changes to the muscles and internal organs of the people who died. And they attributed it to starvation, even though these people were eating 2,400 calories a day.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, it happened in 1993 in Russia to a bunch of people who weren't Russian, so no. Right. That's my fear. There is a single explanatory note, because the Soviet spirit was still alive and well in the recreation industry in 1993 in Russia. But there's the single explanatory note from this one woman, Valentina Yudishchenko.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And she basically in the note, it's, you know, oh, well, the one guy, you know, screamed and then collapsed and he was bleeding. And then the leader of the trip asked me to come help. So I went and helped. But then she died, too. But then other people started dying. And then, you know, I ended up trying to save one last guy. But then I ran away and I survived because I got out of there.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
2018, she does an interview, allegedly does an interview with Kamsumaskaya Pravda. Got it. I had so much trouble. I had so much trouble. There were a few takes when we were... Kamsumaskaya Pravda. Yeah, there we go. Which is a tabloid.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
but it wasn't always a tabloid, and I can't tell, because I'm not Russian, if it's a tabloid in the sense of the format of the paper, or if it's a tabloid in the sense of the National Enquirer. So, I don't know. A lot of Russian people were like, it's the National Enquirer. On the other hand, other Russian news sources that are legitimate referenced this interview in their coverage.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But, uh... So, the interview she gives totally changes the story. She didn't try to help anyone. She was scared shitless. She was one of the younger people on the trip. Somebody... She was, like, frozen in fear, and one of the guys who died ended up having to be like, hey, go, move. Like, get down the hill. She did. And then she's talking about how, like...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You know, it wasn't that they were awoken early in the morning or late in the morning by one of the guys being like, hey, we're all cold and wet. It was the leader of the group who woke them all up and went, hey, we need to get off this mountain right now. So the story totally changes in between.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Nick, did you pop out? Or are you still here? Someone get this man a Starlink connection.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, I think he was just joining back. Yeah, there we go.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Do we have you? The technically difficult lodge.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I just sent him a couple of messages saying, you got this, I believe in you. Incredible. Incredible. Hey!
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I was like, no, no, spread the love. Spread this. There's more. There's a lot of good channels. But, yeah, so, I mean, that's obviously what we talk about most of the time, and I thought that would be a fun – I was like, ah, this is the universe giving a sign. We're getting another person talking about this who's nice and big.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I will have to send you the pictures. Yeah, where you froze. Oh, boy. Yeah, but what we were saying.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Okay. There you go. The hypothermia was too rapid onset. They attributed the rapid onset to starvation, but the problem with starvation is that they weren't starving. Yeah, they were eating minimum 2,400 calories a day. Minimum 2,400 calories a day. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And yeah, it's a lot of hiking, but at the same time, that's probably a lot more than we ate the day that we hiked up a much more difficult climb.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
quickly and effectively lethal yep is incredibly unlikely if one or two of them had died chemical weapons might seem realistic if all of them had died chemical weapons might seem realistic Six out of seven is weird.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, it would have had to be they walked over some kind of gas mine or something.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Right. Also, this was not, like, just a random hiking expedition, and I regret not including this in the video because I think it would have made everybody understand a lot more clearly, but I also didn't know how to properly explain it because I didn't understand the concept. But the short version is this was part of a massive recreational event called, like, the Toreata or something.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Can't remember the exact Russian term. So these were Kazakh hikers. uh, in Russia as part of something where you had people hiking all over Russia and specifically a lot of groups in this area. So there were at least two other groups within a couple of miles of them when all of this happened and they were totally unaffected. So this one group is affected in this one spot.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
One of the weird things is had they continued a couple hundred yards before camping out the night before they would have been in a shelter. There was a retransmitter tower up on top of this one peak. that had a shelter in it that they could have stayed at. Like, that was expected that they were going to do that. There was firewood. There was water. There would have been some food supplies.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And instead of going to the shelter, they stop and set up camp on a barren mountain slope. And the thing is, before that, they had been descending to the tree line to camp and then coming back up to hike. So they were going down to the tree line, camping, eating, going back up to the ridge, walking along the ridge.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It makes no sense that they made that decision, but really what gets me is when you look at the symptoms as they are described, it wasn't starvation. Hypothermia only makes sense if you go by the 1990s version of events, which was not audio recorded. It was not a direct interview with her. It was basically they had her explain what happened,
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
they then submitted a note on her behalf, which could have been edited. And the key there was that it's Russia in 1993.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. He did not like, uh, it's not Kolmogorova. That's the other trip. That's the same name I thought of too. I don't know why. Driving me nuts that I can't think of it. I started like, Hey, if I'm not mistaken, um, Yeah, it's because Lyudmila Kolmogorova was on the other trip, and this was a Lyudmila something else.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But yeah, the guy who submitted the report was not a fan of her, felt like she was reckless, and in my opinion, probably tried to turn this into a cautionary tale of why you shouldn't do what she did. But... Infrasound, as it turns out, at high enough intensity, can actually cause the adhesive bonds between your cells to break apart. It can literally shear you apart at the molecular level.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And that's kind of what they describe in the medical examiner's report, is how their organs weren't right.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So that's the thing is if it's sound waves, those are bouncy.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
She wandered around the forest for four days.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Also, based on the way it was all described, it sounds like she was one of the furthest down the mountain of the group as this was happening. So she may have just had a shorter distance to go. Several of the other people attempted to climb back up to help others. She went down the whole time. So other people were going up into it and she wasn't.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So I have a source for that. I, I got an email from a member of Robert Simpson's family.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Also, like, the toxin that they were describing is specific. Like, doesn't actually do everything that was claimed. I don't know why they would have hidden it. I don't know what the reasoning would be there. Maybe just to not have that kind of a black mark on... Either that or... Pretty secretive country. And also, I mean, let's think about the times here.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They weren't exactly that far out from yet another disaster.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So, but yeah, that's another weird one that I... That is a wild case. Yeah. Very strange. There's one more that I want to look at.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Things like shiver away or something like that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think that's a seventies one. So that's Soviet. If I'm not mistaken. I will say though, considering it's eight Oh five, I wanted to, I want to talk about Jordan. So yeah, it was meaning to get to that earlier. So you entitled your video killed by a Sasquatch. I went a different route, mainly because I didn't want to steal your title.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That is true. He did stay behind because he was tracking a bear. And then, to be blunt about it, his entire family thinks he did it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I even said in the video, I was like, that caught me off guard, because you're usually, I think, a little bit more skeptical than I am.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So, you know, I figured it was probably something along those lines. But then, you know, I watched through it, and... From what I understand, you didn't come to a specific conclusion about what you think happened either.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So we did use it as an opportunity to talk about the Wendigo. As we so often do. I wanted an opportunity to talk about the Wendigo. I had a new book. I had a new book about the Wendigo. But, I mean, having studied the Wendigo probably more than most people at this point, I kind of came to the conclusion that if you look at the less mythical version of what that is...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It does account for what happened, in that a Wendigo, in more historic than legendary terms, was perceived to be somebody who is... Well, it was a cannibal, but cannibalism was perceived to be something that was so taboo that... you had to be either possessed by a demon or an evil spirit.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, obviously, using terms like that doesn't even really work for Christianity, as we've learned recently. But you have to be possessed by an evil spirit, or you have to be utterly insane, like, to the point of being dangerous. And that's why the solution, there was no curing a Wendigo. You just kill them. There's no alternative.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Which, interestingly enough, if you read the Old Testament of the Bible, it says the same thing about possession. If somebody is possessed, you have to kill them. Like, exorcism is a Christian thing. That's not a Jewish thing. So... when you get to the historic encounters with quote unquote Wendigos, what they are describing is people who are cannibals.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I mean the, the pop culture term for it would be like, they have the hunger, like they've consumed human flesh. Now they constantly want more. Uh, so there is a kind of real life version of this. That is not some legendary, you know, cannibal giant, but is instead, uh, somebody who is just obsessed with eating humans, uh, due to some sort of, I guess, problem in their brain.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Because when I looked at it, and the reason I got there is because I did my normal thing, which is I look at it and I'm like, okay, what are all of the mundane possibilities... None of those make sense. What's a little less mundane? And then kind of go from there. So, I mean, for me, and let me know what you think of this, the big things were, you know, A, there's no tears in anything.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So no tears in the tent, no tears in the hammock. All of the blood splatter is kind of concentrated in one area. Then obviously there's the bleeding that went down. But if you look at the splatter, that's like in an arc over where his head would have been. Mm-hmm. Wolves don't really do that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The actual wilderness experts were like, yeah, this wasn't a wolf or a bear, which reminded me of Bart Schleyer, where the RCMP is like, well, this was clearly a bear attack. And all of the bear experts are like, this was absolutely not a bear attack. What are you talking about? And I think what frustrated me most about it was the police just kind of went, I don't know.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They didn't come to a conclusion, which is, I mean, the only other thing I can really think about is that it was, is if you tie it back to the truck, like somebody who was pissed that he parked his truck in front of the gate and they tracked him down and they murdered him. But even then that seems excessive. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's something like Monty Python-level stuff, you know? You're right. Oh, my. Oh, how quaint. I will lay down and die. Tis but a flesh wound. Exactly.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
How is David Politis not all over this one of all things? I know. Right. Like, yeah. Of all the cases he has compiled, that is probably the closest one to what he's suggesting, what he's implying.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I'm like, dude, what? He's just not heard about it yet? Maybe. I mean, I hadn't heard about it until you mentioned it. One thing I wanted to run by you, because I was thinking about it, the timeline of events here, they're pretty positive he was dead by the 10th of October.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
One of the receipts, if I'm not mistaken, is dated for... So, no, he sends the text to his group chat of the spot he's camping on the 8th, if I remember correctly. His receipts are dated to the 9th. And then the last phone activity, I believe, was either late on the 9th or early on the 10th.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, he gets to the campsite, because here's what I was thinking about. If you look at the directions... If he needed to go shopping, the closest town would have been Ely, I think. The closest town that would have had anything he needed would have been Ely. Then there was another one, which is where the Zups place was. I can't remember. It started with, I think, a C, but I'm not positive.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. With the photographs? Yeah, and then there was Virginia, Minnesota. Virginia, Minnesota has a Walmart. What I was struggling with is putting together how this trip makes sense. If he goes to Virginia and passes through Ely, then he doesn't need to go north to the other place.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If he passes, if he goes west out of the Boundary Waters, stops at that one other place that's name is escaping me, and then goes south to Virginia, he doesn't need to go through Ely. so what was the driving pattern and why?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I'm wondering if there's any possibility that has to do with it is like, did he stop somewhere on that day, you know, saw a cute girl at the register and was like chatting her up and her boyfriend found out and went out and killed him. Like,
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That was the other thing that I couldn't figure out. The police report just says that those officers had been out there for a welfare check, but it didn't say who called it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Like this is October. There were a lot of twigs to snap. Yep.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It really only makes sense if somebody else is out there with him, and as far as we know, nobody was.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, I will say there were some aspects of that story looking through the reports on, you know, his, his upbringing and his family life. And it was like, okay, well, there was some weirdness here. You know, he did not, he had severe dyslexia, but it somehow wasn't diagnosed until he was 12.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I, you know, he was dating a woman for a little while in Kentucky and then wasn't. And then he was up in New York and then he was in Minnesota, totally unprepared. I mean, that, that was the part that really got me was he was, he was barely prepped for a winter in Pennsylvania.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think he probably thought he was, but I was looking through it. The average temperature in – the average, like, lowest temperature you get in the Adirondacks, which was the coldest place he'd camped before – was I think like 17 degrees higher than the average temperature in the boundary waters that time of year. So chances are, I mean, he could have died either way.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
No, there wouldn't be blood spatter if he was dead. Right.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, because a wolf isn't going to gingerly try and... It's just going to bite at things until you fall out. Right. It's going to rip and tear. I have a husky. It is a third the size. Still would be that destructive.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Not a single, I think, recorded kill by a wolf in Minnesota in the last 120 years.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And it was by a wolf with a deformed jaw. Exactly.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
No. At least not in the 1800s. That's the other thing I've been running into that I was not aware of is the predator populations in this country were kind of at their lowest in like the 50s through the 70s.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Because they were all basically hunted to extinction.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, and then, you know, they were like, oh, ooh, we killed all of them. One of the wild that do you do you run into the thing where you'll be researching for a case and the Park Service or the Forest Service or the Department of Wildlife, whatever it is like, oh, there's absolutely no mountain lions here. And then all of the hunters in the area are like, there are mountain lions here.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Um, and you wonder, like, you gotta be aware of it. You know, it can't be just that they're, you know, oh, well, we've heard about it, but we haven't confirmed it yet. So you'd think they'd be like, there may or may not be mountain lions here.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Chances are it's somebody with the Ranger getup who's sitting at a desk in a nice air-conditioned room like, oh, no, don't worry about it. There's no mountain lions here. Meanwhile, Ranger Rick is over there like, I shot one.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But, yeah, I mean, I think I kind of feel like I don't love the explanation that it was... Shaving. Shaving, because if it was, that means that he laid there long enough for a pool of blood to accumulate, but then got out of the tent on his own. Well... And didn't bleed on anything that was found outside of the tent.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That was a fun one to read. That was so nice to put together into a coherent story.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Which is just such a choice. Yeah, but it's better. Like, don't get me wrong, I feel so bad for Jordan and for his family, and it's a tragedy, but the dude was tempting fate.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, he went out into the Minnesota wilderness with nothing to eat but beans and rice. I know, right? To stay in a hammock in a place that gets to be in the negatives at night in the winter.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I firmly think if he had been out there another few weeks, he would have been like, I can't do this.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
yeah yeah either that or he would have severely refocused on what kind of materials he was bringing with him yeah it's just I've been I have almost frozen to death it's not a fun experience it's the kind of thing that it happens once and you're like yeah I'm not doing that again I'm out I'm heading home I yeah it's it's still one of those cases that's a big question mark yeah
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I feel like one in like 20 of them is like, yeah, it's just, yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I remember there was, we did a video on that. One of the comments on the video was, you guys missed a lot of information. You should check out the Missing Enigmas video. I had not heard of you at the time. I went and I watched it and I was like, oh, wow. I was wrong. I was so far off because I was trusting David Politis too much.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And he was – one of the other reasons I wanted to bring it up, again, big channel. His conclusion on this was kind of what we typically run into, which is – Alright, this is a little weird, but... There are explanations.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And so that video is actually kind of what woke me up was your video on that case was like, Oh, this wasn't nearly, I like went into it being like, no, no, he, he definitely missed something. You didn't miss anything.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's super detailed about every step of that search. Right. And then Robert Simpson's interview, which should be in there, just isn't.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't even remember which one that was.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Not going to lie, to me, that sounds like his friends killed him, but...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, sounds like he was being chased by his friends.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Getting family members who could reach out to you, and they're like, hey, saw your video about my brother. I wanted you to know. It's like, OK, thank you.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So, well, you must remember that for some reason, a lot of Germans are involved, too.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You know, the most common ethnic background in the country.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. I mean, I think for me, God, why is his name escaping me? It was the one, was it Rainier? On Mount Rainier? Eric Lewis. Hmm. Eric Lewis is one of those that was up there for me where it's like the way the story is presented by politeness, you know, it's, I can't imagine how this happened. And then you go read through the report.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
This is the guy who was up on, he was climbing with two of his buddies on Mount Rainier. It's really not even confirmed he was ever actually there, by the way. His buddies just said he was there. I don't recall if anybody else actually saw the guy. Uh, but it's the one where they were climbing up there at like 13,400 feet. They realize that the rope has gone slack. Like Eric's not beneath them.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
By the way, these guys are all in their fifties. Um, there are a number of things that can happen to you that get more likely as you age, like heart attacks. Uh, so, uh, Also, I mean, David Politis' version, the rope had been cut. In reality, he had a carabiner and he unclipped himself. In David Politis' version, there's the snow cave, and his gear is found in the snow cave.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, in reality, there was a snow cave, and then there was his gear. They were in different places. No evidence he'd ever been in the snow cave. And then you go and you look at it. Not only was this a time of year that they tell people you shouldn't climb the mountain... But also there are ravines and crevasses and all sorts of different places somebody could go missing. And I looked into it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I looked it up. There have been a number of other climbing deaths on that mountain that were exactly that. Somebody fell and they ended up in a place where they found these people, but they couldn't even get to them because they were just in a spot that it would be dangerous to recover the bodies from. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, it sounds to me like he had a medical emergency, unclipped himself, and got lost under a crevasse. And they just couldn't find the guy. It's not like they can get dogs up there to search for his scent. It's not like there would be anything found. I mean, if he took off his bag because he felt like he couldn't go with it any longer, there you have it. Same thing happened to Mark Hansen.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Which, by the way, that's also up there. You look into the Mark Hansen one?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's on the Appalachian Trail. He and two other guys, Ben Fish, and I can't remember the other dude's name. He went home early. He got like a mile and a half in. He was like, okay, I'm having a footwear problem. Like my boots aren't working. I need to go home. They are like two days into the trip. Mark Hansen has never gone hiking before.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And like not just, you know, never been on the Appalachian Trail. Never gone hiking. They get through the one trail shelter, and having been in these trail shelters, not the most comfortable night's sleep. I know. I don't know how you did that without a pad of any kind. I was in pain, and I had a pad.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's a great point. Anyway, Mark is there about halfway through that day's trip, and he goes, I can't do this anymore. I can't carry my pack. It's too heavy. I need to put it down. And Fish carries it for a little while, allegedly. Then he drops it because he can't carry two people's backpacks. Then they end up, according to him, Mark got to a certain point where he just goes, I can't.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
He just lays down in the snow. And Fish, instead of doing the intelligent thing, which would have been to try and clear out the area to keep it as dry as possible, lay something out underneath them, and then huddle in his sleeping bag for warmth, Mark is like, oh, I'm just going to, or not Mark, Ben is like, I'm just going to go ahead.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Go ahead and find the shelter, and we'll see how far ahead it is, and then I'll come back and grab you. And then, you know, in the morning when he goes to get him, Mark's not there. And they find his body, like, down the mountain a little ways. And you're like, oh, he tried to get off the mountain. He did not succeed.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If there's not at least a newspaper report about it, I just discount it as not happening.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If the only evidence that it happened is some person said so, chances are it didn't happen, or if it did, it did not happen in that way. Saw that with... We looked into The Land Between the Lakes.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, I don't know if you heard about that one, the beast of The Land Between the Lakes that allegedly murdered a family of four back in the 80s. Wow. Yeah, it's very interesting. You get a lot of... A lot of stories.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, we did have somebody comment who said they knew Jan Thompson. Oh, it was Cryptic Kentucky. She said that she knew Jan Thompson. So I invited her to come on sometime, too, because I would love to actually pick somebody's brain about that who's from the area. Yeah, that'd be great. But I don't believe that Jan Thompson... I fully believe that she heard the story she told.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Not sure that she heard it from two cops on the night that it happened. So. Also, somebody even pointed out they were like, there aren't gas stations where she described working at a gas station.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But not wonderful. But yeah, I don't want to keep you super duper long in case you got stuff to do. So I want to grab some questions.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It was a different life. It was a different time. I had some people to pay. Simply by the name, it had to be said. Yeah, I broke bad.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's not that hard to find if you go to the right place. North Philly, you basically just pick anybody's pocket. Yeah. Seattle, too.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh God, I can't remember what was, who else was on Mount Rushmore 2.0?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The ranch. No. We're in disagreement about whether or not the ranch we want to build is going to be a cult or not.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Both agree it's not going to be a cult, but he thinks that if I say it's a cult, then it won't be a cult. But if I say it's not a cult, it will be a cult.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It would be a large ranch that I would own, and everybody else that lives there has to apply to make sure that they're not going to cause trouble. And then they will get a couple of acres, and all they have to do is pay the property taxes.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And we'd have a mayor, and we'd have elections, and the elections would be rigged, so I'm always the mayor. And I don't remember the other part of this. What are you talking about? Just that essentially it would be like... Are you talking about the neo-feudalism thing? Yeah, yeah, that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Archie, put your tongue back in your mouth. What are you doing? Put that back. It's dry.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's another one of them, yeah. Very weird. That's one where we like... Like genuinely weird? Yeah, but for a different reason entirely, which is that it's really hard to go missing on that trail.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And long time to die from a gunshot wound to the leg.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You would have to try. It's paved. And there's like 80 degree slopes on both sides.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We had a lot of like women who were between the ages of 57 and 59 who were not appreciative of the way I told that story.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Which granted, like, I don't think I said anything incorrect. I was like, ah, well, she was an older woman who went missing in the 80s, probably wore a lot of perfume, so you would think scent dogs would be able to find her.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, hypertension, two-pack-a-day smoker, was on her third marriage.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, there was a lot going on in there. Her husband was 20 years older than her.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, it was all. So, I mean, the one argument was, oh, you know, maybe she she disappeared like on on purpose. Maybe she she ran off with somebody, but nobody, anybody she knew knew disappeared.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Was this one where it was like a lake basin?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm not sure if he was stalking her so much as they were into each other.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't think you understand how cold it was in State College, Pennsylvania.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's frigid there. Coats. All right. Also, I mean, Aiden, it used to dump three feet of snow on us every December here. I don't know if we've gotten three feet of snow in the last five years.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Now a lot more about that story makes sense. It was the South, and it was the 70s.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't think you understand how excited that makes me.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Also, I don't hate the cold. I hate being cold. How do you get cold? Usually by not dressing properly for it. Okay. Alright. I want to ride a horse. I know you do. And I want to have a rifle. A nice lever action rifle.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I was honestly thinking that on our way back from the Donner Party one, that might not be a bad plan.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So when we did our video on that, it was a while ago. I was not as good as I was not as good at this as I am now. I was struggling to figure out where the hell he was. Like and there, you know, I think in David Politis's version of things, it was like the lake they were at was only one hundred and fifty feet. Absolutely incorrect.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I remember looking at the map, and I was like, I don't think that's possible.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So you were able to find the exact campsite?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And that's so frustrating that like the thing that had me the most confused about that case was how he got lost. And now, you know, you haven't been up there. That's not confusing, but it's still somehow confusing.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. In an area like that, you'd think you'd be able to hear people calling out for you.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Which is wild because I think that's the highest I've ever hiked. was 5,000 feet. The highest I've ever actually been.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It was only 2004. That was the wild thing about that case. I was a Boy Scout at the time. A Cub Scout. Michael Aubrey was another one. He's only two years older than me. And I was looking at his case, and I mean, it's obvious what happened to him. Because he said what happened to him. He was like, I just really didn't want to be camping anymore.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So I tried to get out to the road so I could hitchhike my way home. Now, keep in mind, this was like 2008. Not really a time when I think kids were hitchhiking frequently. I knew not to hitchhike in 2008. I was only two years younger than the guy. I was a scout at the time. I had been on camping trips that were very similar to the one he described. I get it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I get why he was like, I don't want to be here anymore. What I don't get is trying to get out and hitchhike, but I don't think that was weird. I think that's just bad decision-making.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm almost positive that as soon as you subscribe to the Patreon, you just have access to it. Let me really quickly check. Pull up my Patreon app.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, I mean, that's the only possible option. It's the most likely for sure.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
My guess is that they probably didn't... If I were to offer a mundane reason for that, it's probably that they didn't want people going out there because it's a dangerous place to be.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Which, of course, would make it very difficult to find somebody if you weren't aware the sign had been turned the wrong way.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You would think having been a former police officer that he would have – That he would be aware that sometimes law enforcement maybe fudges things a little bit. You would think. And, like, that might be an option to look into. Also, really quickly, I did just want to address the question about We Went Camping. I think there's a tag that lets you find it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'll have to make it a little bit easier to find, but I need the computer to do that. So if you just scroll down to the earliest part of the page, it's there. It's just a PDF. It'll be a nice big graphic that says We Went Camping. There's an elk on the cover, and you will see it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Ooh, I've heard that one's good. It's one about the Comanche, I think. Ooh, I mean, it really depends on what kind of genre you're looking for, man. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, I will say definitely more on the, I don't, I don't know what your reading level is like, but I mean, one of my favorite series of all time, even, you know, going back to reread as an adult is rangers apprentice rangers apprentice books were phenomenal stories.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I a little bit, you know, a little bit juvenile now as, as an adult, but I very accessible, good stories, good entry to the low fantasy genre. Um, I can't say enough good things about John Flanagan's work. Other than that, I'm trying to think of like books I've read recently because I haven't really read books recently because everything I read is for work.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I will say Steve Thomas' book on JonBenet Ramsey. I think it's called JonBenet Inside. If you look up Steve Thomas' JonBenet Ramsey book, you'll find it. Written a lot like a crime novel, like a detective novel, but it's a true story. Phenomenal book on that subject. Trying to think of other stuff I've read in recent years that isn't mainstream fiction.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Exactly. And I thought that would be the best way to go with this one, with this episode, because, you know, this fall we went down to the Appalachians and we had a time. We looked into the Jordan Grider case, as you did, and I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on it in a more conversational format. But some of these cases... really don't make sense. And it's, those are the fun ones.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, I will say, for fantasy stuff, off the beaten path, Piers Anthony, Chronicles of Xanth, it takes place in fantasy Florida. I'm not kidding. It is Florida in an alternate dimension with ogres and dragons and centaurs and magic.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Uh, like, which is weird because they were from like Knoxville. It's, it's not like they were in a, like a boonies kind of area where you tend to see that kind of thing. Like they, this was a, from what I understand, they were all in a middle class part of town.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And there is a pathway between Florida and Xanth.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Yeah, that's the entire, there's a ton of them. There are so many, but they're really good. Good medieval high fantasy just takes place in Florida.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So Lake Okeechobee is Lake Ogrechobee. Oh, my God. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, because at first I was like, oh, that one's obvious. It was shot down by Russia.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Like, it was flying over an active war zone. Not really mysterious. And then I found out that apparently they just found a pile of perfectly intact passports. Yeah, you know how 9-11, they're like, oh man, so weird how these passports survived. It's like that on steroids.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh yeah, they found several of the hijackers' passports. It's one of those things where they're like... It's one of the few pieces of evidence with 9-11 where I'm like, I see where you're coming from with the people who say it was, like, fake or charges or whatever.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I have not, and I don't think I'm going to.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, that's the thing that pisses me off about the jet fuel can't melt steel beams. It can't reduce them to a liquid form. It can soften them. And when you soften a bunch of steel beams, guess what they all do?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I love that people are like, well, the buildings were designed to resist an airplane strike. Yeah, for a Cessna. Yeah. Not a fully loaded 747 or whatever it was.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Like, it had just taken off. Yeah. Not a mystery. What about Building 7?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I was literally just going to say. This is one we disagree on. I think Building 7 is sketchy as hell.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I think the thermite one is one of the funniest things. They're like, well, they found thermite. It's like, yeah, thermite can occur naturally under those circumstances. Like the combination of chemicals involved here. And also there's certain things in the building that used thermite, if I remember correctly. Or, like, when these two compounds interact, they form thermite.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I don't know the details. I just remember that it was like, I read a report that was like, yeah, no, thermite could absolutely occur without being planted in that area. Building 7, though, and here's where I think there is possibly a legitimate conspiracy about 9-11. How do I say this? I think the CIA very well knew this was going to happen. And I think they could have stopped it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. I mean, it runs in the family. I'm shocked. It runs in the family. But so I think Dick Cheney probably said no. And then I think maybe he made sure certain people were tipped off about it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, are there any more that would be Nick specific?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So first thing first, uh, Brandon Lawson and Brandon Swanson are different disappearances.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Brandon Swanson was Minnesota. It was, uh, Lyon County, um, Southwest Minnesota, if I'm not mistaken.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's crazy how they never want to do that. I always think maybe some of these small-town sheriffs are not as incompetent as we think.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, I was looking at it. If I remember correctly, I was like, okay, well, the town he would have seen is not the right direction for him to end up falling into the creek. They also never found him in the creek, even though they chained off and netted off the creek to try and find him. They never found him on any of the farms around. They never found him in any old wells.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
There was an abandoned farm. He wasn't there. Now, him getting lost isn't necessarily as weird as it sounds, because he was drinking. He was under the influence. He definitely should have been qualified as drinking and driving. Um...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
His friends were all like, oh, no, yeah, I mean, he only had one or two drinks, but they were probably just trying to protect him in case he was found alive because he already did have A-D-U-I. If I remember correctly, he was also like half, he was like blind in one eye or something.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. He had some sort of physical disability with one of his senses. I can't remember which.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's either deaf in one ear or blind in one eye.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, I think it was more like legally blind. Like, you wouldn't be able to see it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. It's a weird one. It's definitely a weird one.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's not really the same thing as... No, I know. You take methadone.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Methadone is the prescription one that's supposed to diminish your cravings, right?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If you have not been following him, there have been a number of times where Nick has changed my mind on a case.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I'm going to take off these headphones because my ears be hurting. Yep.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They did seem like... Obviously, for the people who might take this the wrong way, I am a Christian. I'm wearing my cross right now, actively. It's right here. It's on my neck. They seemed like the... super religious type of Christians.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
They don't stick out as much as they used to, but these bad boys are a little...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
well out there yeah no trust me mine hurt too headphones hurt so i will i don't know why we haven't bought new ones it's not like we don't have it's not like we don't have the money to buy nicer headphones you know what it is all of the many things we've had to spend money on for this business that's that's the thing that's the reason is because we keep prioritizing other things which is probably a good thing yeah one day you're going to tune into this show and i'm going to have just the nicest headphones also what is going on with that why are we so jumpy lately it's the computer
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
probably i have let's start streaming these on my computer sure my my my laptop we can just like do you frequently use that no so we can just leave it here basically only when i'm traveling it'd be a lot easier to leave it here yeah yeah all right cool let's do that the reason i wasn't doing that is because the intention was to get amanda to learn to play video games so i could play video games with her but video games make her nauseous which i'm not even sure how to how to fix that
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm not sure how to fix her, you know? She's broken. Horrible. I love her, but she is broken. You shouldn't get sick because of video games.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I was planning to spend some money on that soon, but then my cars both needed a lot of work. All right. What? Okay. That's too much zoom.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Thank you so much for that. I'm broken. Okay. I get it. I'll just leave. Good luck going home tonight. Oh, no, this is very normal for us. This is not real anger.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well, earlier, one of the messages that I did not reply to before I said that was my hebhorp. She hit her head earlier, apparently.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Also, I have the live show on the TV and Ella has not moved. Even when I went to take a shower, she's actually falling asleep to the sound of you yapping. That's pretty cute, actually. Yeah, that's nice. She goes, no, I'm just kidding. I promise. Show them. You can confirm.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm going to murder you. It's far easier than it's ever been. It's gone? Yes. Oh, God. Everything about this chat just sucks. This is one of the worst super chats we've ever received. I'm not going to lie. You don't have to read it. I'm going to read it, but I'm going to do it in the Trump voice.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So, and that, you know, I, I got the sense of that when I was reading through their interviews and the paper and everything. And it just, what, what I think drives me insane about that case, especially now that you mentioned that the one guy, Kelvin was, was African-American is, I wonder if it would have been solved if it weren't for the social stigmas of the time. Right.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Marston just sent us $5 and then seems to remember that he meant to type a message. Thank you, by the way. I forgot to type the message. Long time viewer. Can you scroll down a little bit? There's a bit. I appreciate the lengths you guys go to to find the truth or the most likely scenario of what happened. Thank you.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Woo! Thank you. Thank you for watching for so long.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, we do. And you know what? It is such an American business address.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We have the most Americana little setup going here between the town we live in and the address. It's 10 North Main Street, Phoenixville, Pennsylvania. Use that address for the right purposes, because if you use it for the wrong purposes, you will leave in a body bag. Say it one more time.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Use that address for the right purposes, because if you use it for the wrong purposes, you'll leave in a body bag. We have cameras, first of all. So even if you got away, you wouldn't get away. And we also keep several firearms in convenient locations around the building. Because the Flat Earthers are that insane. He's not kidding. There are at least three firearms in this building right now.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Anyway. Wait, what's the... The JD Vance? Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the little... I need some eyeliner, though.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Dude definitely was a MyChem fan. Yeah, JD, you definitely... I mean, same. Like, I'm not... That's not a dig. Just, like... He definitely screamed in his room along to some Breaking Ben back in the day.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, and that's what I like about politics is we get a broad spectrum, right? J.D. Vance, clearly a MyChem guy. Tim Waltz was apparently Bratt.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Also, what's brat? Oh, I have no clue. Oh, okay, cool. I'm just going to start saying things are brat. It's like, is it gent?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And if people had been a little bit more willing to look at different angles instead of being like, oh, well, it was clearly the black guy.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Okay, gotcha. We should just start doing The Gentleman as a podcast with absolutely zero structure.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, just put it up on YouTube. It's literally just like 30 minutes of us taking a random topic, and is it gent? And neither of us actually really knows what gent means, by the way.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It would be really funny if it did. Because then... Because at no point in the show do we ever actually discuss djent aside from if we decide if it is or isn't.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
By the way, this was very well packaged. Well done, sir. All right, here we go. Here we go.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That's not true. I'd never be caught dead near an Arby's. I only do that near CVS. You already have enough meats? I do have the meats. I actually don't have any meats right now because I just moved again.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Guys, I do have to tell you, there is one thing I would appreciate from you guys more than anything else in the world, and it is if you do eat at Sedona Taphouse, just boycott it forever for the rest of your life. We don't like Sedona Taphouse here at the Lodge. It's the reason he moved. Yeah. Because for me, it was Sedona Trap House, and for you, it was Sedona Crap House. Yeah.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It was actually Sedona Crap House for me, too, but a long time ago. Yep. Okay, this is wrapped in cellophane, or saran wrap, or whatever the proper term for that is here in America. Either are accurate. Because the Brits say cellophane.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Well done again. There was tape around the box, which contained a paper-wrapped this, which was taped shut, which this was then in turn wrapped in cellophane and also taped shut.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah. Yeah, that's Sam Levan, the one who made my costume, my getup for the... Yeah, that was awesome.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yeah, Sam... By the way, Sam has a channel. God, it's escaping me what it's called right now. But she just started a channel where she's doing that kind of thing. I will try to find a link to it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So the channel, by the way, for Sam, and she currently has 36 subscribers. I would love to see a lot more. She does content about her sewing. She makes costumes. She is a very fun, great person. It is Sam Levan. That is S-A-M space L-E-V-A-N. And the at is sam.l.made.official. If you want to type that into the chat, you're going to need to do it on this screen.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So I want to see some more subs on that channel. Let's make her night. Let's do it. She did do a really good job on that costume. It looked very nice. It did.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Fuzzy Wazzy was a bear. Fuzzy Wazzy had no hair. Fuzzy Wazzy wasn't very Fuzzy Wazzy. You never heard that? I'm lost. Okay. I didn't know that was a local thing. Whoa.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, hold one side. You need to hold one side. All right, this is going to be a big reveal.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Here, let's stand up and get it a little closer.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, yeah. This is going up. Somewhere in here. Right here on the side.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I do need to point out, Amanda, while we were packing up, she was packing up the books, and she opens up Berserk, and she goes, what? She goes, what is this? And I went, oh, keep turning pages. It gets worse. I really got to look at this book. No, you don't.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The bank account, I didn't put too much stock in because it was the 70s. She probably needed parental permission to withdraw anything. The $200 in cash she left at home, on the other hand.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh, I'm not reading that one. I'm not reading that one. I'm not even sure what it means. Burned the coal. Think about it. What color is coal, Layden?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Oh yeah, rolling coal. There's another joke in there that I'm simply not going to make, but...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I have not looked into any of them too deeply, but there are. I'm thinking Vermont and New Hampshire. Because, yeah, we're going to... We're not sure what the audience wants right now, and the algorithm and the audience want different things. So we're trying to figure out how to schedule content going forward. I definitely want to keep doing the Missing Form 1 clusters just because I enjoy it.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I did just have a thought. Ooh, it would make sense. The star Sapphire ring. That's literally what you were going to say. That's why she would have bought it. Yeah. That would make sense. Cause then she could sell it or pawn it afterwards. Yeah. Jewelry is an easy way.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
um i i have a fun time researching those for the most part every once in a while it's like oh come on uh but for the most part it's a lot of fun i think i'll do new hampshire and vermont as probably one and then that way we don't have to make multiple trips um yeah that'll probably be one um pennsylvania is going to be one i might even there are there are some in ohio there's like three where well probably in a kroger
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We have the ocean meats. Remember when Arby's had a fish commercial? Oh, God.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
We didn't get enough history spewing between you in unsub, but believe it or not, I cannot, I can't say for certain it's going to happen, but we're trying, but there is a greater than 50% chance that we are going to, that Nick's going to be on. There's a non-zero chance this occurs.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So the fun part is if you enjoyed the Fat Electrician X The Lore Lodge, if he comes on to the history show, you're going to get the Fat Electrician X The Lore Lodge X History of Everything Slash Takuyi X Roman Helmet Guy.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm just going to disappear into the woods for two months so that I can come back shredded.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I'm a horrible Philadelphian, I've got to be honest, man. I've never seen any of the Rocky movies.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I might have seen Rocky I at some point when I was a child.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Not in the same day. Does it include the Creed films?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
So, to be clear, we're going to do 12 hours of Lord of the Rings, take a break to poop, and then watch the entire Rocky series? No, no, no. We'll take a break to sleep.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I heard about that too. Um, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, I heard about that from the relative.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
From my understanding, it was not allowed in the park.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Stop objectifying me. You objectified yourself. Not getting the OnlyFans. It's not happening.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You can have the OnlyPhantoms. There you go. I got to get that shirt on Bunker. Yeah. I got to disconnect.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I got ripped apart on Twitter this morning because I was like complaining about fluoride in the water.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
First of all, that was a specific thing about me. Yeah. I'm just going to privately give you my actual phone number. Use it wisely. Which camera? Use it wisely. I don't know where you live, but I'll find out. So that you can text me, because I have entirely too many messages in entirely too many places right now, and I do not have a personal assistant to remind me of things.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
But yes, I will give you over Discord a good number to use.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If you want to tell me where he lives...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
That is my hope. I would hope this was a runaway situation, because the alternatives are not good. You know?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Ryan Wickup says, guys, I hear a rumor that a certain infamous Sonic fan may become a parent. Who? Who? Who? Chris Chan. No, no, no, I know that.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Who looked at that thing? Not saying that because of any gender identification, just... what that person has done in their life.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Ah, yeah, a recording of internet creator Christine Chandler, I don't know where we are with this now, admitting to having sex with her mother went viral in 2021. Oh. Great. So I don't know who decided that thing needed to spawn.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
It's the only one to use. You get taken out of context and used to try and cancel a swat.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Probably about Jordan. From what I understand, no. He was not depressed. Really? He was just kind of weird. you know? Uh, Joshua Nelms says, thanks for the videos. I want to suggest the dog man triangle in Texas for all the research. Apparently there are an unusual amount of encounters. Uh, I'm perfectly willing to take a look. I might even try and get Roanoke tails to collab on that one.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Might have been the same one. There were some mentions in the book by... I want to say his name was Joe Friedrichs, I think. Okay. But there was some mention in his book, and if I understand correctly, he had talked to members of the family, got a bit more of a bio about the guy. He did mention something about run-ins with the law, but he wasn't specific. So I... I mean, the fact that he...
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
The way the timeline worked out, it sounds like whatever run-ins he had, if he did go to jail, it didn't last that long. So I'm guessing it wasn't anything serious. Probably petty offenses, misdemeanors. He had a gun, so he wasn't a felon. Because there was no mention of an illegal handgun. So he can't have been a felon.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
If I remember correctly, there was a sighting of a girl who matched her description at a diner down the highway. Like within a week of her disappearance. And then by the time the, by the time anybody like put two and two together and called the sheriff, she was gone. But I mean, given the time, it would not be out of the question for her to run away, hop a bus to California.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I mean, not fun, obviously. And like, it's horrible, terrible tragedy, but as an investigator years later, it's, it's kind of fun to, you know, have an actual challenge, try and figure out what's going on instead of, I don't know if you, how much you've looked into the great Smokies cases, but there's like four or five where it's just not Mr. Mysterious at all.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I feel like every time I research a conspiracy, we eventually get there. Yeah. That's where it originated. It's like, this is a weird conspiracy. Why are they even up? They think it's the Jews.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Um, I don't know. I feel like doing a video debunking every single conspiracy theory about the Jews would take so long. Because there's a certain subset of people that just blame everything on the Jews.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I will say, don't trust my research on fluoride. I have barely researched it. My position on fluoride is more political than anything, which is don't put chemicals in my drinking water. Like, I did not consent to that. If you want me to drink fluoride water, have a brand of fluoridated water. I can use toothpaste. I can use mouthwash. I don't need to drink the fluoride.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
This was introduced at a time when American dental hygiene was way worse. Also, if I'm understanding things correctly, the rate of cavities in the United States is much higher than the rate of cavities in France, where they don't have fluoridated water. Except for like a small percentage of the population. I think it's naturally occurring fluoride.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
I just don't like the precedent of putting chemicals in the water to turn the freaking teeth strong, to almost quote a person whose name I can't say because YouTube don't like it. But no, listen, I don't think fluoride is a particularly dangerous thing for you to drink. I just think it's an unnecessary thing to be in the drinking water.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
And I don't like when the government medicates me against my will. No matter what that medication is.
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
You know, my favorite thing was the people who are like, you know, well, I think the government would know. And I'm like... The Tuskegee Experiment happened, and it only ended in 1972. Why did it end?
The Lore Lads
The Cases That Haunt Us | Podcast Episode 149
Yep. Like, I feel like we're at the point where, you know, with the internet and media being what it is, you could just tell people, you know, and masks, hey guys, brush your teeth. And if you don't brush your teeth and you get cavities, it's your fault. It's not everyone else's fault for not putting a neurotoxin in the water.