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Yuval Levin

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
478 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

And the guy who runs the Medicaid payment portal in Baltimore shut it down. And, you know, there was a banner on the website that says we're shutting it down because OMB told us to. That kind of practical chaos, OMB exists to avoid that, and they're clearly not working to avoid it.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

And the guy who runs the Medicaid payment portal in Baltimore shut it down. And, you know, there was a banner on the website that says we're shutting it down because OMB told us to. That kind of practical chaos, OMB exists to avoid that, and they're clearly not working to avoid it.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

They do come in with a sense that the bureaucracy is hostile to them and has to be fought. but they also come in with a sense that chaos can serve their purposes. And I think these are two different assumptions and that the second one is profoundly mistaken. So the buyout is a very, very interesting experiment.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

They do come in with a sense that the bureaucracy is hostile to them and has to be fought. but they also come in with a sense that chaos can serve their purposes. And I think these are two different assumptions and that the second one is profoundly mistaken. So the buyout is a very, very interesting experiment.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

A lot of these folks do just want to do their jobs, but there are some among them who really are very hostile to the administration's intentions. The question is, how do you deal with that? How do you make your way through it? Now, look, in the long term, there's certainly an argument for driving some churn in federal employment, for driving some turnover, for bringing in some new blood.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

A lot of these folks do just want to do their jobs, but there are some among them who really are very hostile to the administration's intentions. The question is, how do you deal with that? How do you make your way through it? Now, look, in the long term, there's certainly an argument for driving some churn in federal employment, for driving some turnover, for bringing in some new blood.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

I can see that. But in the medium term, and politics is a medium term business. In the medium term, this is going to bring chaos. So think, for example, about what they're doing to their new political appointees. You have all these people who are just now getting confirmed by the Senate. They're coming into these departments. Some of them are quite new to these places.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

I can see that. But in the medium term, and politics is a medium term business. In the medium term, this is going to bring chaos. So think, for example, about what they're doing to their new political appointees. You have all these people who are just now getting confirmed by the Senate. They're coming into these departments. Some of them are quite new to these places.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Some of them maybe have been there before. And they're coming in as, I don't know what, a tenth, a fifth of their workforce is going through a long-term resignation process. And those people have not been chosen on the basis of any sense of which jobs are most important, which people are doing the best work. What government functions are most essential? What actually has to be done by law?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Some of them maybe have been there before. And they're coming in as, I don't know what, a tenth, a fifth of their workforce is going through a long-term resignation process. And those people have not been chosen on the basis of any sense of which jobs are most important, which people are doing the best work. What government functions are most essential? What actually has to be done by law?

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

None of that. This is all happening on the basis of who finds it attractive to not work until September while getting paid and then take another job. That means they're going to come in with chaos. And the way they're approaching it is rooted, I think, in a Silicon Valley argument that says โ€“

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

None of that. This is all happening on the basis of who finds it attractive to not work until September while getting paid and then take another job. That means they're going to come in with chaos. And the way they're approaching it is rooted, I think, in a Silicon Valley argument that says โ€“

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Creative destruction is how you learn, break things, and then see how they fall, and you can build something new. And the civil service just isn't going to work that way. That's not really how this system can learn.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Creative destruction is how you learn, break things, and then see how they fall, and you can build something new. And the civil service just isn't going to work that way. That's not really how this system can learn.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Yeah. There's 3 million people who work for the federal government. And I think a lot of people's sense of who the kind of modal federal employee is, is probably off. I mean, I would say now people probably think it's somebody who lives in Washington and works from home and shuffles paper. And that's not actually a very common type in federal employment.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Yeah. There's 3 million people who work for the federal government. And I think a lot of people's sense of who the kind of modal federal employee is, is probably off. I mean, I would say now people probably think it's somebody who lives in Washington and works from home and shuffles paper. And that's not actually a very common type in federal employment.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Most federal employees don't live in or near D.C. And there are real functions to perform here. It's also worth remembering that that the federal workforce is about as big now as it was 50 years ago. The government has a lot more contractors than it did then.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

Most federal employees don't live in or near D.C. And there are real functions to perform here. It's also worth remembering that that the federal workforce is about as big now as it was 50 years ago. The government has a lot more contractors than it did then.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

It's taken on a lot of things, but it hasn't really grown the federal workforce much, which means that in those really essential functions that only government employees could do, the federal workforce is actually stretched pretty thin in some important places. We shouldn't underestimate how much we've assigned to our government and how much would be left undone if there weren't people doing it.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Breaking of the Constitutional Order

It's taken on a lot of things, but it hasn't really grown the federal workforce much, which means that in those really essential functions that only government employees could do, the federal workforce is actually stretched pretty thin in some important places. We shouldn't underestimate how much we've assigned to our government and how much would be left undone if there weren't people doing it.