Zack Beauchamp

I don't agree, actually. I don't think that is how you get competitive authoritarianism.

I don't agree, actually. I don't think that is how you get competitive authoritarianism.

How you get competitive authoritarianism, if you look at any case where it happened, is through not just doing a bunch of random stuff, but through taking a systematic and deliberate effort to restructure the fundamentals of a society and getting key building blocks in place in a strategic way that allows you to wield power effectively. You brought up Lagos Simica a second ago, right?

How you get competitive authoritarianism, if you look at any case where it happened, is through not just doing a bunch of random stuff, but through taking a systematic and deliberate effort to restructure the fundamentals of a society and getting key building blocks in place in a strategic way that allows you to wield power effectively. You brought up Lagos Simica a second ago, right?

That's a really instructive example.

That's a really instructive example.

Yeah, that's right. For those of us who have not spent a lot of time in Hungary, like Andrew and I have. So he was like Orban's friend, right, from their days prior to power, right? This isn't a man like Elon Musk who developed his wealth independently. His entire business empire owed itself to government patronage, right?

Yeah, that's right. For those of us who have not spent a lot of time in Hungary, like Andrew and I have. So he was like Orban's friend, right, from their days prior to power, right? This isn't a man like Elon Musk who developed his wealth independently. His entire business empire owed itself to government patronage, right?

He had a media empire that was funded in large part through government advertising dollars. So when he decided he had this break with Orban, Zamiska calls him a bunch of nasty names. And what happens is Orban destroys him because Orban was pulling his strings the entire time. He had control over all of these things. He had control over the money.

He had a media empire that was funded in large part through government advertising dollars. So when he decided he had this break with Orban, Zamiska calls him a bunch of nasty names. And what happens is Orban destroys him because Orban was pulling his strings the entire time. He had control over all of these things. He had control over the money.

He had the control over the flow of the resources, all of which had been developed through years of systematic building and power consolidation laid on a groundwork. of a supermajority in the legislature, right, that they got in 2010 and have not relinquished since, allowing them to do whatever they want to the Constitution based on Hungarian constitutional rules.

He had the control over the flow of the resources, all of which had been developed through years of systematic building and power consolidation laid on a groundwork. of a supermajority in the legislature, right, that they got in 2010 and have not relinquished since, allowing them to do whatever they want to the Constitution based on Hungarian constitutional rules.

None of those things exist in the U.S. And I don't want to peg this too carefully to the Hungarian example, because you can say the same thing. I mean, my book is about the U.S., Hungary, Israel, and India. And if you look at each of those cases... There's a very, very deliberate effort when it's successful using the reins of power in careful, studied, practical ways to get what you want.

None of those things exist in the U.S. And I don't want to peg this too carefully to the Hungarian example, because you can say the same thing. I mean, my book is about the U.S., Hungary, Israel, and India. And if you look at each of those cases... There's a very, very deliberate effort when it's successful using the reins of power in careful, studied, practical ways to get what you want.

And the problem with Trump is I just see no evidence that that's happening, which is not to say that American society couldn't buckle. It's just that he's doing it badly. Yeah. And he's doing it really badly.

And the problem with Trump is I just see no evidence that that's happening, which is not to say that American society couldn't buckle. It's just that he's doing it badly. Yeah. And he's doing it really badly.

Well, I would note that both Duterte and Bolsonaro are currently arrested.

Well, I would note that both Duterte and Bolsonaro are currently arrested.

They didn't really do a great job at building a competitive authoritarian regime.

They didn't really do a great job at building a competitive authoritarian regime.