Zephyr Teachout

I think to give some meat to the question, you might say, well, we've just got to stop local communities from doing things because we need to push through this green energy development. And the populist story is to actually just tell the truth about where this came from. Big oil has been crushing innovation in electric vehicles for 40 years now. And we know that, right?

I think to give some meat to the question, you might say, well, we've just got to stop local communities from doing things because we need to push through this green energy development. And the populist story is to actually just tell the truth about where this came from. Big oil has been crushing innovation in electric vehicles for 40 years now. And we know that, right?

Ezra, you don't actually—actually, I'm curious about this. You don't think that left-NIMBYism has been a bigger deal in crushing green energy than big oil, do you?

Ezra, you don't actually—actually, I'm curious about this. You don't think that left-NIMBYism has been a bigger deal in crushing green energy than big oil, do you?

Okay, okay.

Okay, okay.

What I believe is that we should not have centralized corporate power governing our system, that there is a real... But in any given instance, I don't want to just be on the abstract. No, I'm not. And what that means is that I don't think it's good to have oligarchs fighting each other.

What I believe is that we should not have centralized corporate power governing our system, that there is a real... But in any given instance, I don't want to just be on the abstract. No, I'm not. And what that means is that I don't think it's good to have oligarchs fighting each other.

And that a system of like two oligarchs being on a different side of a thing is still a deeply broken system and that we should recognize that brokenness. And the example I would use is, you know, from the left, think of the oligarchs we were embracing just eight years ago. You know, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, that we're aligned with them on this.

And that a system of like two oligarchs being on a different side of a thing is still a deeply broken system and that we should recognize that brokenness. And the example I would use is, you know, from the left, think of the oligarchs we were embracing just eight years ago. You know, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, that we're aligned with them on this.

So we should stay aligned with them and make sure we actually know the Democratic Party building up their power there. in order to, in that case, take on Donald Trump. But the truth is that if you engage in enhancing the political power of oligarchs because you have a short-term alignment on an issue, it will end up actually degrading the political process over time.

So we should stay aligned with them and make sure we actually know the Democratic Party building up their power there. in order to, in that case, take on Donald Trump. But the truth is that if you engage in enhancing the political power of oligarchs because you have a short-term alignment on an issue, it will end up actually degrading the political process over time.

So there is a deep, deep difference. And then I want to use a specific example, right? The deep difference is what I care about so much is I believe in the future. I believe in dynamism. I believe in a country in which people's full selves are brought to bear. I believe in far more equal country where we actually stand up for working people.

So there is a deep, deep difference. And then I want to use a specific example, right? The deep difference is what I care about so much is I believe in the future. I believe in dynamism. I believe in a country in which people's full selves are brought to bear. I believe in far more equal country where we actually stand up for working people.

And I believe that in order to stand up for working people, we need a dynamic country. And I absolutely believe that. that the biggest block to that is centralized power. And that in individual fights, you can say, oh, I think this moment of centralized power might force things through, but will fundamentally lead to highly concentrated, top-down, calcified power in the long term.

And I believe that in order to stand up for working people, we need a dynamic country. And I absolutely believe that. that the biggest block to that is centralized power. And that in individual fights, you can say, oh, I think this moment of centralized power might force things through, but will fundamentally lead to highly concentrated, top-down, calcified power in the long term.

And the example I want to use, you and I first met over 20 years ago when I was working for Howard Dean.

And the example I want to use, you and I first met over 20 years ago when I was working for Howard Dean.

Yes. And I don't blame Howard for this because I don't think he even knew about it. We wanted to put out a new, you know, here we are, a new dynamic campaign. We wanted to put out a new open source policy. And somebody's like, just run it by the general counsel of Microsoft first. And I was new to politics. I was totally shocked, right? That is a veto. That is a slowing down.

Yes. And I don't blame Howard for this because I don't think he even knew about it. We wanted to put out a new, you know, here we are, a new dynamic campaign. We wanted to put out a new open source policy. And somebody's like, just run it by the general counsel of Microsoft first. And I was new to politics. I was totally shocked, right? That is a veto. That is a slowing down.