Zephyr Teachout

I think for 40 years, we stopped, to use your phrase, you know, bottleneck detective. We basically stopped asking the power question. And there's a little bit of history here. There was this big movement, which both Republicans and Democrats got on board with. I mean, I think some of the questions, if there are good ideas that come from Republican areas, I think we should take them.

I think for 40 years, we stopped, to use your phrase, you know, bottleneck detective. We basically stopped asking the power question. And there's a little bit of history here. There was this big movement, which both Republicans and Democrats got on board with. I mean, I think some of the questions, if there are good ideas that come from Republican areas, I think we should take them.

I don't think it's a left-right issue. But they got on board with this idea that we should just focus on power. outputs and not on power. And so that's part of the reason you hear some resistance from the anti-monopolist to your vision. And I guess I would challenge to say what the anti-monopoly movement has started to do is started to investigate.

I don't think it's a left-right issue. But they got on board with this idea that we should just focus on power. outputs and not on power. And so that's part of the reason you hear some resistance from the anti-monopolist to your vision. And I guess I would challenge to say what the anti-monopoly movement has started to do is started to investigate.

in areas where you wouldn't necessarily guess that in the Kroger-Albertsons merger that pharmacists would be on fire about it and be the biggest opponents, that they would see the joining of two big grocery stores as a fundamental threat. But once you start asking the power question, then pharmacists come out of the woodwork and say, yeah, this is killing us. We're getting starved by this.

in areas where you wouldn't necessarily guess that in the Kroger-Albertsons merger that pharmacists would be on fire about it and be the biggest opponents, that they would see the joining of two big grocery stores as a fundamental threat. But once you start asking the power question, then pharmacists come out of the woodwork and say, yeah, this is killing us. We're getting starved by this.

And so it's not to say that it answers every question, but that it is in far more areas than what you think. That the loss of our looking at questions of power was probably one of the biggest losses. And so I think, one, sure, there are areas that can't be solved by that. But there's far more areas that surprise even me today that actually have a power component and a power bottleneck.

And so it's not to say that it answers every question, but that it is in far more areas than what you think. That the loss of our looking at questions of power was probably one of the biggest losses. And so I think, one, sure, there are areas that can't be solved by that. But there's far more areas that surprise even me today that actually have a power component and a power bottleneck.

I completely agree with you. And I want to say it's one point that I don't think I've seen anybody talk about in the book, but I thought was great, is that you highlight a problem with the Golden Fleece Awards, you know, and the way in which we started.

I completely agree with you. And I want to say it's one point that I don't think I've seen anybody talk about in the book, but I thought was great, is that you highlight a problem with the Golden Fleece Awards, you know, and the way in which we started.

You'll remember exactly, but it's the award for the stupidest government program. Who was it who...

You'll remember exactly, but it's the award for the stupidest government program. Who was it who...

Absolutely. And when you look at little things like, not little things, big local things, I should say, really important local things like the Second Avenue subway and procurement and the way in which, I mean, it's a way in which I think we've got corruption all wrong.

Absolutely. And when you look at little things like, not little things, big local things, I should say, really important local things like the Second Avenue subway and procurement and the way in which, I mean, it's a way in which I think we've got corruption all wrong.

We're like really focused on this massive compliance regime instead of focused on the big corruption issues as opposed to little corruption issues. But I think you're right. And I think that does take a cultural change to be willing to accept failure. A program that I think really worked was the Paycheck Protection Program. Yep.

We're like really focused on this massive compliance regime instead of focused on the big corruption issues as opposed to little corruption issues. But I think you're right. And I think that does take a cultural change to be willing to accept failure. A program that I think really worked was the Paycheck Protection Program. Yep.

And the Paycheck Protection Program has gotten beaten up by so many different people by finding the examples of fraud. And there was a lot of fraud. And there was fraud. And it was worth it. It was absolutely worth it to support businesses around the country, to keep them open during COVID. It was worth it for the workers, for those businesses.

And the Paycheck Protection Program has gotten beaten up by so many different people by finding the examples of fraud. And there was a lot of fraud. And there was fraud. And it was worth it. It was absolutely worth it to support businesses around the country, to keep them open during COVID. It was worth it for the workers, for those businesses.

In order to do great things, you do actually have to do things wrong sometimes. And I really loved that point in the book.

In order to do great things, you do actually have to do things wrong sometimes. And I really loved that point in the book.