Zoe Gardner

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Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it does depend on the context. Probably what most people see of my work is me having horrible arguments in mainstream media about migration. And the framing and the way that debate takes place is horrific. But, you know, a lot of my job is also... talking to ordinary people and coming on lovely podcasts as well.

Yeah, I think it does depend on the context. Probably what most people see of my work is me having horrible arguments in mainstream media about migration. And the framing and the way that debate takes place is horrific. But, you know, a lot of my job is also... talking to ordinary people and coming on lovely podcasts as well.

But like, yeah, I think the mainstream media framing and political framing of this issue is just so horrific and it doesn't actually reflect the conversations you tend to have with normal people.

But like, yeah, I think the mainstream media framing and political framing of this issue is just so horrific and it doesn't actually reflect the conversations you tend to have with normal people.

So Georgia Maloney was elected two years ago and she is of the extremely hard right anti-migrant flavour of politician, like much more extreme than anything we have in the UK. Her party is the successor to the fascist movement in Italy. And even if people reject the sort of the label of fascist around her, they would certainly, anybody would call her an extremely authoritarian, hard right figure.

So Georgia Maloney was elected two years ago and she is of the extremely hard right anti-migrant flavour of politician, like much more extreme than anything we have in the UK. Her party is the successor to the fascist movement in Italy. And even if people reject the sort of the label of fascist around her, they would certainly, anybody would call her an extremely authoritarian, hard right figure.

And that is driven primarily through migration politics and She has completely failed, as all politicians do, to deliver on her hardline promises to cut immigration and make refugees disappear from Italy over the last two years. However, there has been a drop, as you said in the intro, in the last year and more specifically, actually, in the last six months.

And that is driven primarily through migration politics and She has completely failed, as all politicians do, to deliver on her hardline promises to cut immigration and make refugees disappear from Italy over the last two years. However, there has been a drop, as you said in the intro, in the last year and more specifically, actually, in the last six months.

And that reflects a deal that Italy is at the lead of, but is actually an EU-wide deal that has been made with Tunisia, a greater enhanced cooperation between Italy and Libya, and a new deal that's also been signed with Egypt. And these are called migration management deals, which is euphemistic, to put it mildly. Basically, we pay millions and millions of pounds.

And that reflects a deal that Italy is at the lead of, but is actually an EU-wide deal that has been made with Tunisia, a greater enhanced cooperation between Italy and Libya, and a new deal that's also been signed with Egypt. And these are called migration management deals, which is euphemistic, to put it mildly. Basically, we pay millions and millions of pounds.

And I say we because the UK has in the past been involved with these deals and in the present continues to be involved in various ways, including financially involved. We pay huge amounts of money to governments, and I use that term even quite generously because Libya doesn't essentially, it's a failed state and doesn't have just one government, but we've picked one of them.

And I say we because the UK has in the past been involved with these deals and in the present continues to be involved in various ways, including financially involved. We pay huge amounts of money to governments, and I use that term even quite generously because Libya doesn't essentially, it's a failed state and doesn't have just one government, but we've picked one of them.

And we're giving them a lot of money to contain migrants, to prevent them from leaving. And essentially what happens and what has been happening specifically in Tunisia since this deal was signed is that the government there has been

And we're giving them a lot of money to contain migrants, to prevent them from leaving. And essentially what happens and what has been happening specifically in Tunisia since this deal was signed is that the government there has been

rounding up people, chucking them into vans and driving them out into the Saharan desert and dumping them, men, women and children, in the border region between sort of Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, with no water, no mobile phones, no nothing. And Tens of thousands of people have credibly been reported to be subjected to this treatment. And hundreds and hundreds of people have obviously died.

rounding up people, chucking them into vans and driving them out into the Saharan desert and dumping them, men, women and children, in the border region between sort of Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, with no water, no mobile phones, no nothing. And Tens of thousands of people have credibly been reported to be subjected to this treatment. And hundreds and hundreds of people have obviously died.