3 Takeaways
NBCUniversal Vice Chair Bonnie Hammer on AI Celebrities, Interactive TV & the Future of Content (#241)
Tue, 18 Mar 2025
The media and entertainment world is evolving at warp speed. One person who knows where it’s headed is the legendary Bonnie Hammer, former vice-chair of NBCUniversal. Here, she shares her thoughts on the critical importance of content, why TV shows are more popular than movies, the role of AI in creating entertainment, and much more.
Chapter 1: What is the focus of this episode featuring Bonnie Hammer?
Media will change in ways that we can now only begin to imagine with the possibilities of immersive, personalized and interactive entertainment, as well as AI generated celebrities. What does this future look like? Hi, everyone. I'm Lynne Thoman, and this is Three Takeaways.
On Three Takeaways, I talk with some of the world's best thinkers, business leaders, writers, politicians, newsmakers, and scientists. Each episode ends with three key takeaways to help us understand the world and maybe even ourselves a little better. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Bonnie Hammer. Bonnie was vice chairman NBC Universal from 2020 to 2024.
As someone who rose from an entry-level production assistant job, whose chief charge was a dog, to vice chairman at NBC Universal, Bonnie Hammer knows all facets of the media and entertainment business. She was named vice chairman of NBC Universal in 2020, and she also led the creation of Peacock, NBC's streaming service. She has just published a new book, 15 Lies.
I'm excited to find out from her what the future of media and entertainment looks like. Welcome, Bonnie, and thanks so much for joining Three Takeaways today.
Hi, Lynn. I'm delighted to be here and I'm proud to be one of your guests.
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Chapter 2: Why are TV shows more popular than movies?
It is my honor, Bonnie, to have you as a guest. So thank you. I was surprised to learn that TV shows are far more popular than movies and that TV shows and series account for roughly 75% of viewing. That seemed really high to me. But as I thought about it, I realized that it made sense when you consider that TV shows and series are longer and have more episodes than movies.
How do you think about series and how do you choose and shape shows? Is it based on algorithms?
One of the reasons TV shows are more popular are they're simply more accessible, that people can be home, they could be on a plane, they could be anywhere. And these days, thank you to technology, they could watch them easily, tune in, tune out without having to worry about losing continuity for two, two and a half. And sometimes movies like today, again, where there's an intermission.
So there are a couple of easy reasons why TV shows are so popular. One is that, the other is they're addicting. Years ago, we used to produce TV shows that were 20, 22, 28 episodes a season. Now they're shrinking to six episodes, eight episodes, 10 episodes as you stream them. They're addicting. People can watch them. They can choose when they watch them.
They can watch two, three, or one at a time. And it's easy. But shaping content is really what's important, whether it's a big time movie or a television series. It's about character. It's about substance. It's all about content. and know where wherever the media industry goes, you know, started with broadcasts and got into cable. Now we're streaming.
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Chapter 3: What makes great TV content according to Bonnie Hammer?
The only thing that's important is great content. That's what people need and want to see. That's what makes the industry.
And what did every series that you greenlit need? What makes great content and how do you shape it?
great characters, people that others can relate to. We started many, many years ago at USA, which oddly now in 2025 is the buzzword. We came up with something called Blue Skies Programming. And Blue Skies Programming was about upbeat drama with a dollop of humor and characters that you could relate to. They were imperfect, but they weren't completely negative or bad characters.
And it was about really great content that was relatable to everyone. And you could understand them, get into their thinking, get into their mindset,
And I take a look at what's happening right now with Suits, which we've developed and produced and started in 2011, launched in 2011, 2012, nine seasons worth, has just come back in the past year and has been a top 10 series on Netflix after 13 years. which is pretty incredible.
And that's because it was relatable characters who were imperfect, but you were rooting for them to succeed and stories that related to your own life in one way or another, even if it was a stretch.
So interesting. You mentioned Netflix, that Suits is now on Netflix. How do you see Netflix and Amazon Prime Video?
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Chapter 4: How do Netflix and Amazon Prime Video impact the content landscape?
Well, the truth is I wish we had bought Netflix really early, early in the game because they had the right idea in terms of growth and what they wanted to do very early on before any of us really believed that streaming would be the future. I think they are incredibly well done and organized entities that are producing bold content and getting it out there.
Amazon is amazing simply because the media business is one of its smaller parts. The marketplace supports everything that's happening on Amazon. So the amount of funds going in there gives that team a lot of possibility. Netflix is basically based on content. only content. And I give them a lot of credit in terms of what they've been able to do since the inception and where they've taken it.
It seems like the big blockbusters, the movies, the shows and the events are increasingly popular. How do you see big blockbusters? Do hits rule now more than ever?
Hits and blockbusters will win more at the box office. They are produced so they can be seen on big screens that have big effects and they need to go globally in order to get their money back. But I would say they're fewer and relatively speaking from years ago, far between because they cost so much money and there's no guarantee what they're going to do with the box office.
When you think about a box office movie, it's great to be able to go to a theater and have that option. But these days, they always have the back end to depend on, whether it's the company's own streamer or selling it to a Netflix or an Amazon or whoever else they're going to sell it to. Years ago, they couldn't quite get the same amount of money from back end sales as they do now.
But blockbusters are meant for the big screen. And that's why they're done with the hope that they would bring in top dollar globally.
Is the strategy on producing content now bigger, fewer, better? Or what is the new strategy on developing content? I think each entity looks at it differently.
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Chapter 5: Are big blockbusters still ruling the entertainment industry?
For blockbusters, I do believe it's fewer, bigger, better. Spend on fewer entities, but do them well and do them big. I think for television, for streamers right now, it's kind of the opposite. And I'm slightly worried about that as somebody who grew up in content, loves content, that it's more producing more for less.
almost going back to the old cable model, where instead of looking at certain series for nine seasons, 20 plus episodes per season, it's trying it out as a six, eight or 10 episode entity.
Not spending as much as you would have years ago, seeing where it goes and then going to season two, going to season three doesn't often last away old cable and broadcasted where you can go into season eight, season nine or the Dick Wolf series, go into season 15, 16, 17 and onward.
So I think the model for blockbuster movies for theaters is one way, more investment, fewer, but for series, more serious, less expensive.
Less expensive. How does digital technology and social media change the role of talent? Is power shifting to the stars?
I don't know how it's affecting stars right now or developing stars right now. I think, as you probably believe, I would assume you do, there's a great upside and a huge downside to digital media and technology. Digital in general, it's based on how it's being used. If it's used for the good, if it's positive support, that's great.
But when I see how, unfortunately, certain digital, not media so much, but how digital is being dealt with with the younger generation and the kids right now, I worry about it. I worry about it for them. I worry about it for the future. I worry about it in terms of credibility at large. So can it be a fabulous support? And has it changed my life in a lot of positive ways? Yes.
But do I worry about it in terms of the effect it has on the younger generation and their addiction to it? Absolutely.
Is power shifting to the stars with their huge social media followings?
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Chapter 6: How is digital technology changing the role of stars?
I think it has some interesting upsides and some scary downsides. As an aid, a support, a degree of helping research or play with characters or play with writing, there's a fair amount of positivity connected to it. But I think that if it is exclusive and trusted and not double and triple checked, it's extremely dangerous.
And I also think it's a crutch where when you think about creative from my generation, our generation, it was all inside the head, working with others, using your own creativity. Yes, you did research, but the writing and everything about it was yours or your team's. Now it's hard to tell whether something comes out of chat GPT or whether it's really come out of somebody's brain.
I've played with it recently just for the fun of it as I look at other book proposals. And it's both fun but scary what I got back. And it worries me unless they're the right amount of controls around it in terms of all of our businesses, of what the filters are, how it's used, not that it's used.
Yes, I think that that's a worry that we won't be able to understand what it's recommending or what it's doing. And essentially that we'll need another AI to check an AI, which seems a fraught situation. Another impact of AI that seems to be on the cusp of happening is interactive and immersive experiences.
It's so exciting to imagine watching a movie or maybe a sports game and being able to jump into the scene itself using virtual reality. How do you see the potential of interactive and immersive experiences?
I love the idea. I love the potential. It's been around for a long time. Years ago, we had these goggles that we would put in and you'd have a depth of field and you'd be seeing things around you, et cetera.
And that was, I remember when we were doing Mr. Robot with Rami Malek, that was the first show where we actually experimented on a short piece for one of the film festivals where it was completely virtual. And it was truly interactive. And it took us a ridiculous amount of time to shoot and put out. I think we had like nine cameras to do less than six minutes of video.
It was a fabulous, interesting experience. But it's been a long time since we even tried that for it to get to a place where it's common usage. Again, like everything, I think it has some fun, wonderful potential. But if it gets in the way of human beings having live interaction with other people, we're going to have problems.
How do you see the potential of interactive experiences where viewers can influence the show in real time?
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