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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Both my older kids came home telling me that they didn't want to be Jewish.
The first week of hearings at the Royal Commission into Antisemitism and Social Cohesion opened with Jewish Australians describing what life now feels like. She sees swastikas etched all around the school. Jewish community groups say antisemitic incidents in Australia have surged since October 7.
But the Commission is not only hearing about what's happened, it's also being asked to answer a difficult question.
Chapter 2: What experiences are Jewish Australians sharing about antisemitism?
What counts as anti-Semitism? And where is the line between political speech, criticism of Israel and hatred directed at Jews? I'm Ruby Jones, and you're listening to 7am. Today, historian David Sluky, who leads Monash University's research into antisemitism, on how it should be understood, measured and responded to. It's Monday, May 11th.
David, the Royal Commission has opened and we've heard from Jewish Australians who have described antisemitism that they have experienced in daily life. So we've heard stories of children who've seen swastikas and Nazi salutes at school, Jewish Australians who've been abused and threatened at Bondi, and people who've said that they're being held personally responsible for Gaza.
So what picture is emerging from this first week of testimony?
I think to me it's not that surprising. The stories we're hearing, they're stories that, you know, within the Jewish community have been circulating for a long time. They're things that a lot of different people are experiencing.
As I started walking, a man, a white man, wearing military style clothing and a military backpack approached me.
I think what's probably
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Chapter 3: What significant rise in antisemitic incidents has been reported since October 7?
Most surprising or shocking to people who are tuning in who don't know these stories is the kind of everydayness of it.
And started calling me all sorts of racial slurs, among them dirty Jew, started doing the Nazi salutes and started doing a gun finger at my forehead, imitating like he wanted to kill me.
There's the biggest outpourings where there's violent attacks, where there's bombings of institutions. But it's that everydayness that people experience, the being abused on the train.
I heard a bit of a commotion behind me And then I heard someone screaming words to the effect of, how many babies would you need to kill in Gaza before you will be happy, you effing Jew? Being spat at. Some guy just came up to me and just said, you dirty fucking pig Jew, right to my face this close and spat in my face.
The ways in which, you know, Jewish schools have to be really cautious, even just about an excursion to a museum.
Roughly what age were the students from the other schools? So I can't guarantee what they were. What I do know is they were significantly older than my students and obviously were physically intimidating towards this boy in particular. Your students were Year 5, which is primary school.
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Chapter 4: How is the Royal Commission defining antisemitism?
Do you think that these other students were high schoolers? I can almost guarantee it. Yeah, they were much older, much older students.
You know, we tend to focus on the sort of big outbursts and the worst instances. And, you know, obviously the massacre at Bondi is just, you know, kind of unimaginable horror. And the stories that are emerging day after day, and for people who are watching, it's hard watching, it's hard listening. It's that everydayness that I think is really hard to cope with in a lot of ways.
Is there any particular person's testimony that stuck with you?
I was really struck by listening to the school principal of Bialik College talking about some of the experience of his students out on excursions.
We can't go into the CBD in Melbourne anymore in school uniform because of what we'll face at sporting events. We have had Hitler salutes and Jewish slurs. Children attending university campuses have been spat on.
The way that children are being co-opted into this, to me, that really stood out. The other thing I think that was really striking to me was the testimony from the CEO of Jewish Care and the ways in which the staff members at Jewish Care, you know, many, maybe most of whom aren't Jewish, are themselves experiencing antisemitism. for the fact that they work in a Jewish organization.
And I think that this stuff isn't to be downplayed. It's really seriously affecting the way people within the Jewish community and people adjacent to the Jewish community move about the world, how they feel a sense of belonging as Australians. And it really strikes at the heart of their well-being and their capacity to just face a day when that's always in the back of your mind.
And the Royal Commission hasn't yet landed on its own final definition of antisemitism. The first hearing block is looking at what that definition should be. And that is perhaps the most contested part of this process, because that definition will go on to shape what institutions and governments treat as antisemitic. So can we talk about that?
What do you think the line is between someone being offended by a political view and someone being harmed because they're Jewish?
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Chapter 5: What personal stories illustrate the everyday experiences of antisemitism?
And you touched upon this, but one of the anxieties around all of this is that antisemitism could end up being defined so broadly that it captures legitimate criticism of Israel. So how do you draw that line without diminishing the fear and the hatred that Jewish Australians are experiencing?
Yeah, criticism of Israel is really important, as is criticism of Australia, as is criticism of any government, any country. Where you start to get into these blurry lines, particularly when you're talking about criticism of Israel, is when historically harmful images, ideas, language, tropes start to get wheeled out as part of that and then reproduced.
And on the one hand, it's a criticism of power relations and structures and dynamics, but there's also this sort of fanciful notion, I think, of really damaging ideas about Jews controlling governments, controlling the levers of power. There are ideas around, well, why is Israel a subject to criticism that other countries aren't, and why is there this focus and targeting of Israel?
Sometimes I think that's a really good question, the targeting by the Iranian government of its own citizens. as one example where there was sort of relative silence, I would say. Sometimes you do wonder why, because there's many tragedies around the world.
But I also think, you know, if you're saying anti-Semitism involves double standard of criticizing Israel and not other countries in equal measure, that's a kind of difficult thing to measure. You know, how, say on a university campus, how are you going to enforce that? the fact that students aren't protesting China or Iran to the same extent as Israel.
It's the kind of thing that, you know, it's really difficult to do and it doesn't invalidate necessarily people's criticism of Israel. And so we need to be really clear about what is criticism and what is harassment, abuse of people as well.
Coming up, why the Royal Commission could spark a backlash against those it's supposed to protect. David, could we come back to the Royal Commission? Because you have warned in the past that it could become a proxy fight over Israel and Gaza. So are we seeing that happen?
Not yet. I don't think. I haven't heard much that suggests it yet. But I do expect once we move past... the kinds of focus that we're hearing now, which is really around this question of lived experience and the way people experience it on a day-to-day basis, I think we will still end up getting there.
And I will say that one of my concerns about the Royal Commission, as well as it becoming this proxy for debates over Israel and Palestine, What I've seen since Bondi, and particularly since the announcement of the Royal Commission, has been an absolute explosion online in antisemitism, and in ways that I hadn't seen before Bondi.
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