Peter Garrett on Aukus, politics and the fight for “the soul of the country”
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What is AUKUS and why is it significant for Australia?
We are sceptical about AUKUS and I think any fair-minded person who looked at it may take that view as well. But we're absolutely clear that it is a genuine public inquiry.
AUKUS is the most expensive defence project in Australia's history. A project that at its heart has the plan to acquire nuclear submarines through the United States and the United Kingdom. But the doubts around it are growing, over the cost, over whether Australia will get the submarines it's been promised, and over what the deal means for our sovereignty.
It's almost at the heart of AUKUS. Is AUKUS something which brings us into the US's potential warfighting plans or otherwise? And if so, is that something that Australians agree with?
Now, a public inquiry in lieu of parliamentary debate, led by former Labor Minister Peter Garrett, is putting AUKUS under scrutiny. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am. Today, Peter Garrett and why he believes Australians deserve answers and whether it's too late to walk away. It's Monday, June 15th. Peter Garrett, thanks for joining us. You've just had the first public hearing of the AUKUS inquiry, which you're heading up. Was there any testimony that stood out to you?
Yeah. Hi, Daniel. There sure was. I mean, we had former Foreign Minister Gareth Evans. His name may be known to some listeners, but certainly he was a very significant figure, both in the Hawke government and the Keating government back in the day, and very well known internationally.
The notion that extended nuclear deterrence justifies our prostration, that the United States really would be prepared to sacrifice San Francisco for Sydney, let alone Miami for Melbourne, is and always has been a ludicrous delusion.
He was highly critical of AUKUS for a range of different reasons, some of which people would be aware of. The fact that the cost of the submarines is very high and the question of whether they'll arrive at all is still up in the air. But I think additionally, he provided us with a really interesting context about what the Americans would expect if, in fact, we ended up taking the first part of the Orca subs deal, which is the nuclear-powered Virginia subs. And he pointed out in the comments by senior American officials that, essentially, they would still remain American submarines.
Delivery of any Virginias to Australia would be highly imprudent without, quote, an ironclad guarantee that they can be deployed at the will of the United States.
What doubts are being raised about the AUKUS deal?
And I think that was something which the inquiry was aware of, but we never heard it articulated so clearly by someone with that experience. The other bit of, I think, really interesting material that was submitted at this inquiry was the fact that The amount of high-level weapons-grade plutonium that these nuclear submarines do produce over their lifetime and under this arrangement that the government has entered into, many people may not be aware that Australia is actually required to safely store that long-lived high-level radioactive waste.
Requiring not just... absolutely strict isolation from the environment for health and environmental purposes but military levels of security because it will pose a proliferation risk and a theft risk for geological periods of time.
The other thing to say is that it was very interesting to hear from members of the public. And they had some really good questions that they were asking. And yeah, we had a really good day here in Melbourne.
Peter, this inquiry is led by a group of AUKUS sceptics, including yourself. So the criticism is that it's a bit of a show trial of sorts. What do you say to that? Are you heading towards a predetermined outcome?
No, look, it's right that we are sceptical about AUKUS. And I think any fair-minded person who looked at it may take that view as well. But we're absolutely clear that it is a genuine public inquiry and everybody, including the government and defence officials, are more than welcome to make submissions which will be taken into account and which will be publicly available.
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